74 replies to this topic

[Manored]

As it says on the tin. Right now it feels like there's almost no difference between the various game modes, because when enemies don't re-spawn, why worry about the objectives if you can just kill the enemy team, and then go do that?

What makes various game modes apart from "kill them all" work in other games is the fact that death isn't permanent, so the contribution to team victory you get from killing someone is limited.

In this game that crucial element is missing, but the game modes are designed largely in the same way... which ultimately doesn't work that well.

As such, I propose adding re-spawn to most game modes. The idea being that after a player dies, they can re-spawn somewhere between 30 seconds to 2 minutes later, being dropped in via dropship.

I'm aware that there are some game modes with re-spawn on faction play, but I haven't played that so I can't comment on that.

However, maybe the "drop pod" system there could also be used here. Could serve as a means of limiting the number of re-spawns per player, which should keep players from getting too suicidal.

[ChapeL]

I'd like to see that tested on incursion where one of the base building is a mech hangar. Lose that and not more respawns. ( might actually give an incentive to break the blob and have people on offence and others on defence )

[Krivvan]

Generally in games where death is permanent, the game mode or objective serves mainly as a tool to get teams to actually fight each other instead of camping or what-not. This is what objectives do in games like Counter Strike. This is also what objectives in Conquest do, which is also what makes Conquest the best game mode in the game.

You're right that if you want to have a game mode where the objective is or can be more important than fighting enemy mechs, then you'd likely need respawn. Basically you'd need to make it so that the only way to win the match is to finish the objective. Siege in FP doesn't count since you can still de facto win it by killing all 48 enemy mechs.

Edited by Krivvan, 26 March 2018 - 01:55 PM.

[Variant1]

mechwarrior is about mech on mech action son, if you came for elsewhere then i have bad news for you........

edit: Also, adding respawns wont change the modes to skirmish there will simply be more skirmish happening
jus sayin >_>

Edited by Variant1, 26 March 2018 - 03:03 PM.

[Colonel Presumptuous]

Id like this, We had a rather enjoyable invasion match yesterday that was Domination on Frozen City (we lost but it was down to a 1v1 in the end so it wasnt a stomp), it was an odd dynamic where the fight got split up into 3 seperate battles around the control point or near by it for most of the match and when a single fight ended the survivors would reenforce one of the other battles. Or if we noticed the count down timer going down one or two of the fights would slowly shuffle over to the circles edge.. the weapon fire was all over the place
.
Was fun to be in and watch, it actually felt like big battle for once with lots of tiny battles going on around the map.

It was odd, it just felt satisfying compared to usual... it was weird.

Edited by Colonel Presumptuous, 26 March 2018 - 02:10 PM.

[fat4eyes]

They already have this in faction play (all the modes except invasion). Most matches still play like skirmish x 3. The only exception is conquest, which is really different when there are respawns.

[SFC174]

Can't do it in QP. Defeats the purpose of "quick". And combined with the mismatches generated by grouping everyone into Tier1, you'd just prolong the pain of bad matchmaking.

You know, world of tanks has been pretty successful with no respawns. They actually tried it recently in Grand Battles, but didn't seem to take. Nothing wrong with respawns in particular, just don't think its right for QP.

[- World Eater -]

Who wants to wait up to 2 minutes to respawn in a 15 minute match? Even FP's respawn time is no longer than 25 seconds.

[Nema Nabojiv]

Yeah. I'd very much like some respawn mode without premades. Be it solo FP or respawn QP doesnt really matter.

[xRatas]

I'll quit on the day people I kill come back to haunt me.

You can easily respawn. Just hit esc, exit match and get a new one. Everyone is happy.

Respawn on quickplay would just make 12-0 stomps something like 48-3 stomps and people would quit halfway the game from frustration.

[Kanil]

SFC174, on 26 March 2018 - 02:18 PM, said:

Can't do it in QP. Defeats the purpose of "quick".

Perhaps after Solaris drops, then? Unless you think the "have more than 4 minutes for a game but less than 15" is a significant part of the playerbase?

[Manored]

ChapeL, on 26 March 2018 - 01:48 PM, said:

I'd like to see that tested on incursion where one of the base building is a mech hangar. Lose that and not more respawns. ( might actually give an incentive to break the blob and have people on offence and others on defence )

I think incursion is indeed the mode that could most benefit from this, right now the bases seem to mostly go ignored until everyone in the other team is dead, at which point the empty base is curb-stomped. Gathering energy doesn't seem to be worth the risk and time either.

Krivvan, on 26 March 2018 - 01:54 PM, said:

Generally in games where death is permanent, the game mode or objective serves mainly as a tool to get teams to actually fight each other instead of camping or what-not. This is what objectives do in games like Counter Strike. This is also what objectives in Conquest do, which is also what makes Conquest the best game mode in the game.

This is true, my beef is more that right now most objectives seem to change little, when compared to a Skirmish match. Assault, domination and incursion are mostly the same. Conquest indeed manages to get people to spread out more. Can't quite comment on escort as it rarely gets picked.

And even if all of them worked, having some modes with re-spawn could still be interesting into itself, as that gives the devs a little more leeway to work with in regards to what they can expect the players to do in a match.

Variant1, on 26 March 2018 - 02:01 PM, said:

mechwarrior is about mech on mech action son, if you came for elsewhere then i have bad news for you........

edit: Also, adding respawns wont change the modes to skirmish there will simply be more skirmish happening
jus sayin >_>

Well, off course the meat of the game is mechs blowing mechs to smithereens, but having some more variety beyond that wouldn't hurt, which is why the devs tried creating more modes. But I can't say they added much variety.

And incidentally, a mode where the players fought alongside swarms of non-mech ground/air units would be pretty fun, although its probably beyond the scope of what the're going for with this game.

SFC174, on 26 March 2018 - 02:18 PM, said:

Can't do it in QP. Defeats the purpose of "quick". And combined with the mismatches generated by grouping everyone into Tier1, you'd just prolong the pain of bad matchmaking.

You know, world of tanks has been pretty successful with no respawns. They actually tried it recently in Grand Battles, but didn't seem to take. Nothing wrong with respawns in particular, just don't think its right for QP.

They can always create a new matchmaking mechanism to contain modes that exceed current match times. Also, yes, longer games do tend to just lead to one team losing for longer, but in my experience with other multiplayer games, being on the losing side is not necessarily unfun, and there's always the possibility of flipping the tables, and the occasional balanced, tense match-up from beginning to end.

I'd argue it might leave a better taste in the mouth than being crushed unceremoniously, having accomplished nothing, as can and does happen without re-spawns =)

Also Warthunder has re-spawns and they work, although the're limited to about 3 tanks per match, as I recall.

- World Eater -, on 26 March 2018 - 02:29 PM, said:

Who wants to wait up to 2 minutes to respawn in a 15 minute match? Even FP's respawn time is no longer than 25 seconds.

That was a wild guess on my part as I'm not sure what delay would be good. If 25 seconds works for FP I guess that's fine.

xRatas, on 26 March 2018 - 02:57 PM, said:

You can easily respawn. Just hit esc, exit match and get a new one. Everyone is happy.

This suggestion isn't about getting to play again faster, its about paving a path for more gameplay variety.

[Mechwarrior1441491]

Multi drop would be great for the larger maps. Polar highlands etc. Need more LRM targets.

[Peter2k]

Could be fun in certain modes
I usually enjoy conquests tendency to break up typical gameplay and positioning, on the larger maps at least

xRatas, on 26 March 2018 - 02:57 PM, said:

I'll quit on the day people I kill come back to haunt me.

You can easily respawn. Just hit esc, exit match and get a new one. Everyone is happy.

Respawn on quickplay would just make 12-0 stomps something like 48-3 stomps and people would quit halfway the game from frustration.

What if it is a 500-3 stomp (yes yes using hyperbole here), but the the side getting stomped actually won because they finished the objective, and payout is not related to kills or damage dealt?

Btw
It would be simpler to find new matches (since loading takes still forever) to simply include a check for dropping again in the same Mech after end of match

SFC174, on 26 March 2018 - 02:18 PM, said:

Can't do it in QP. Defeats the purpose of "quick". And combined with the mismatches generated by grouping everyone into Tier1, you'd just prolong the pain of bad matchmaking.

You know, world of tanks has been pretty successful with no respawns. They actually tried it recently in Grand Battles, but didn't seem to take. Nothing wrong with respawns in particular, just don't think its right for QP.

I think respawns could be fun depending on implementation and the mode
I just got rather low expectations in PGI's ability to make things fun

I mean I'd love to try an incursion with respawns on the test server, but PGI isn't so agile to test things out like that
Its like they need half a year in preparation and we all end up dissapointed

Stuff like that reminds me of the separation of FP ques (single and group)
PGI seemingly unaware of the load of people running single man merc "units" (which got lumped into the group que) so they can actually fight in FP like they want
And then at the end saying "well we tried"

Edited by Peter2k, 26 March 2018 - 04:21 PM.

[Nameless King]

Manored, on 26 March 2018 - 01:34 PM, said:

As it says on the tin. Right now it feels like there's almost no difference between the various game modes, because when enemies don't re-spawn, why worry about the objectives if you can just kill the enemy team, and then go do that?

What makes various game modes apart from "kill them all" work in other games is the fact that death isn't permanent, so the contribution to team victory you get from killing someone is limited.

In this game that crucial element is missing, but the game modes are designed largely in the same way... which ultimately doesn't work that well.

As such, I propose adding re-spawn to most game modes. The idea being that after a player dies, they can re-spawn somewhere between 30 seconds to 2 minutes later, being dropped in via dropship.

I'm aware that there are some game modes with re-spawn on faction play, but I haven't played that so I can't comment on that.

However, maybe the "drop pod" system there could also be used here. Could serve as a means of limiting the number of re-spawns per player, which should keep players from getting too suicidal.

NO, stop trying to ruin QP.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

xRatas, on 26 March 2018 - 02:57 PM, said:

Respawn on quickplay would just make 12-0 stomps something like 48-3 stomps and people would quit halfway the game from frustration.

That is a very good point againts QP dropdecck. Unbalanced QP games are more bearable because they are relatively short.

[Dragonporn]

No, respawn system would ruin this game. Even FP drop decks work in pretty ridiculous way, when first drop must absolutely be full assaults like 90% of times, and then waves break off, if teams aren't well coordinated... It would incur whole heap of issues. Perma death is best and only way.

[Variant1]

Manored, on 26 March 2018 - 03:43 PM, said:

Well, off course the meat of the game is mechs blowing mechs to smithereens, but having some more variety beyond that wouldn't hurt, which is why the devs tried creating more modes. But I can't say they added much variety.

And incidentally, a mode where the players fought alongside swarms of non-mech ground/air units would be pretty fun, although its probably beyond the scope of what the're going for with this game.

i feel you brother. One way to have variety would be to add npc to some of the modes like tanks/aircraft/infantry something this game has been missing. We have turrets but its only one type(lrm ones being removed). They should definenntly add those since tanks aircraft canon fodder is part of the mechwarrior staple even in the single player ones like mw3-4.

As for modes. right now the ones that have more focused on objectives rather than skirmish is conquest and escort maybe incursion too. But the problem with those modes are the outcomes. In conquest sometimes 1 teams will just hunt down the otehr team that split for points and end up ending the match early. Escort is good but it needs tweaking like the vip needs to defend himself, radar/ecm towers need to have a different model and be destroyable on top of caputrable. For incursion too many people seem to think they should keep fighting when they are low on mechs instead of using the base(me personaly i always use the base when the odds are against me). I just think that respawns arent the answers since they are there to encourage carful play, whereas respawns mean more careless play focusing more on kills then objective, just my 2 centurions

Edited by Variant1, 26 March 2018 - 05:04 PM.

[JediPanther]

Meh respawns would just make the farmers die faster. Run pt, do so x amount of damage, die, respawn etc. Would make events even more yolo and rambo filled too. Damage>kills even more during events for that damage requirement.

[Cyzxxikz]

Personally I absolutely love that qp is no respawn. That said I have thought incursion should have respawns ever since it was implemented, perhaps a destroyable landing pad that cycles every 30 seconds respawning up to 4 dead players each cycle, power it and it cycles every 20 seconds, destroy it and it cycles every 45..
Alternatively there could just be a destroyable repair bay that can repair damaged structure and re armor components as well as fill ammo, but not replace anything destroyed

Edited by Cyzxxikz, 26 March 2018 - 06:16 PM.