18 replies to this topic

[Alexander Chenard]

Anyone else feel like this Assault is pretty underwhelming? It has horrible hitboxes, is really squishy for an assault, and doesnt really do anything unique or well for that matter with loadouts. Is this mech destined for a huge armor/structure quirk buff just to make it playable? Or am I not seeing the potential here?

[Nightbird]

The problems of this mech wss wellknown, before and after release. I wouldn't expect much changes at this point.

Edited by Nightbird, 29 March 2018 - 10:24 AM.

[Escef]

What is this, the 3rd thread about this in the past 4 weeks?

I mean, I was actually thinking about starting a thread about how the Urbie Durby was the worst promotional event ever, just as a joke about how horribly predictable and repetitive this forum is.

[Alexander Chenard]

Escef, on 29 March 2018 - 10:23 AM, said:

What is this, the 3rd thread about this in the past 4 weeks?

I mean, I was actually thinking about starting a thread about how the Urbie Durby was the worst promotional event ever, just as a joke about how horribly predictable and repetitive this forum is.

I did a nightstar search so that I didnt have to make a new post....but nothing came up. So blame PGIs forums

Nightbird, on 29 March 2018 - 10:23 AM, said:

The problems of this mech wss wellknown, before and after release. I wouldn't expect much changes at this point.

You are probably right

[aardappelianen]

The nightstar is coming out for c bills soon, there will be more threads

[Escef]

Alexander Chenard, on 29 March 2018 - 10:26 AM, said:

I did a nightstar search so that I didnt have to make a new post....but nothing came up. So blame PGIs forums

https://www.google.c...%3Amwomercs.com

Many forums have poorly implemented search features. Whenever searching a forum, ANY forum, for information, you are better off using Google.

[FireStoat]

I think the largest issue of this mech was a failure to deliver on expectations. People looked at the old table top Sarna site for the Nightstar and read its description. It's a Marauder based structure beefed up into a gunboat assault. People considered how well the IS marauder does in this game and thought the front profile for twisting and survival would be comparable. The next expectation was one of PGI mech releases. The Madcat Mk II had dropped into the game as an excellent assault mech by nearly all players of the game. The Deathstrike was hands down one of the very finest Hero mechs that competitive players gravitated towards in short order. So, Inner Sphere players thought that the Nightstar would be PGI's answer for that faction to rival the Mark II.

Nope. Both of those primary player expectations fell massively short. But just as one more added shortcoming - the hardpoint locations on the torso for some unholy reason failed to have mirrored symmetrical placement which went against the suggested concept art for the machine. On top of it having the cut-and-paste King Crab waddle animation instead of the majestic Marauder stride because, well, the mech was based off of the marauder chassis.

I think PGI is trying pretty hard for the company size that they have but in this particular case of the mech, it was a perfect storm of buyer disappointment.

[Escef]

I suppose I'll repeat my suggested fixes for the mech.

• Cant the arms forward for better close range convergence and better shielding of the side torsos.
  
• Convert structure quirks to armor quirks, to better protect the limited number of guns the mech has.
  
• Increase base agility stats, so that it can actually take advantage of those Marauder/Stalker-esque hitboxes.

The first of these doesn't require any major rework of the model, just shifting the angles on the shoulders and elbows. The other two should require little more than alterations to spreadsheet entries. While this likely won't make the Nightstar into tier 1 material, it will at least make it a viable alternative to King Crabs and Annihilators.

[Jackal Noble]

FireStoat, on 29 March 2018 - 10:40 AM, said:

I think the largest issue of this mech was a failure to deliver on expectations. People looked at the old table top Sarna site for the Nightstar and read its description. It's a Marauder based structure beefed up into a gunboat assault. People considered how well the IS marauder does in this game and thought the front profile for twisting and survival would be comparable. The next expectation was one of PGI mech releases. The Madcat Mk II had dropped into the game as an excellent assault mech by nearly all players of the game. The Deathstrike was hands down one of the very finest Hero mechs that competitive players gravitated towards in short order. So, Inner Sphere players thought that the Nightstar would be PGI's answer for that faction to rival the Mark II.

Nope. Both of those primary player expectations fell massively short. But just as one more added shortcoming - the hardpoint locations on the torso for some unholy reason failed to have mirrored symmetrical placement which went against the suggested concept art for the machine. On top of it having the cut-and-paste King Crab waddle animation instead of the majestic Marauder stride because, well, the mech was based off of the marauder chassis.

I think PGI is trying pretty hard for the company size that they have but in this particular case of the mech, it was a perfect storm of buyer disappointment.

Good thing the Annihilator dropped the month before, amirite?

3 lbx/AC 10s (can even run 3 Gauss but not recommended)
1 var,9J has hefty armor quirks.
1 var, 9FC has a Max 400 engine with 5E and 2 B
The hero is much like the Anni hero with its missile and energy points. It's odd to run outside of MRM vomit or lurms (choke, gasp)
The other ones tho, have plenty of hardpoints and options to do just fine in.
It's honestly just needs to have its arm brought in a bit and have that convergence issue fixed. Even then, if you know how to aim and are careful, annoying misses can be avoided.
Hand actuators tho not necessary, would also boost it up a notch. But something's need to be left for integrity of what little is left.
The Nightstar lineup offers a variety of options and tho not meta,is plenty capable and actually tough.

[Fleeb the Mad]

The nightstar is underwhelming compared to every other mech with a similar role. It's not actually terrible, but it doesn't have anything new to offer.

Its advantage over every IS chassis with similar payload was its non-humanoid geometry and wedge profile promising Marauder-like tankiness, but she's got too much junk in the trunk. The rear part of the torso actually towers over every other part of the front profile, making its low cockpit a liability when dealing with ridges and low cover. It's also impossible to protect the side torsos by doing a Stalker wiggle when taking fire from the front.

I surmise because it was expected to be an excellent tanky chassis, it was hardpoint starved compared to its alternatives. The tankiness didn't actually pan out, but its build options are still rather limited. The hand actuators do give it a very nice range of motion with its arm guns, but they're so widely spaced that convergence becomes a problem when trying to lead moving targets. The hardpoints are the biggest weakness, I think. The one variant with armour quirks, for example, has two ballistics and two energy, one of which is in the head. By consequence it's frequently outgunned by its direct competition without any quirky benefits to make up for it. The Annihilator is tougher, with better convergence and also more heavily armed. The only thing the Nightstar has over it is a better top speed, though Light engines don't offer enough tonnage savings to make a world of difference. Running at 56 kph is an improvement over 48, but it's still a fairly slow and vulnerable chassis.

I personally find that it doesn't fare well in trades because of the relatively low alpha potential. Structure quirks don't cut it when you need to face tank the enemy to win with sustainability. Possibly easily fixed by a durability quirk change.

[TheArisen]

FireStoat, on 29 March 2018 - 10:40 AM, said:

I think the largest issue of this mech was a failure to deliver on expectations. People looked at the old table top Sarna site for the Nightstar and read its description. It's a Marauder based structure beefed up into a gunboat assault. People considered how well the IS marauder does in this game and thought the front profile for twisting and survival would be comparable. The next expectation was one of PGI mech releases. The Madcat Mk II had dropped into the game as an excellent assault mech by nearly all players of the game. The Deathstrike was hands down one of the very finest Hero mechs that competitive players gravitated towards in short order. So, Inner Sphere players thought that the Nightstar would be PGI's answer for that faction to rival the Mark II.

Nope. Both of those primary player expectations fell massively short. But just as one more added shortcoming - the hardpoint locations on the torso for some unholy reason failed to have mirrored symmetrical placement which went against the suggested concept art for the machine. On top of it having the cut-and-paste King Crab waddle animation instead of the majestic Marauder stride because, well, the mech was based off of the marauder chassis.

I think PGI is trying pretty hard for the company size that they have but in this particular case of the mech, it was a perfect storm of buyer disappointment.

That and the huge vents took away what would of been a great frontal profile.

Escef, on 29 March 2018 - 11:10 AM, said:

I suppose I'll repeat my suggested fixes for the mech.

• Cant the arms forward for better close range convergence and better shielding of the side torsos.
  
• Convert structure quirks to armor quirks, to better protect the limited number of guns the mech has.
  
• Increase base agility stats, so that it can actually take advantage of those Marauder/Stalker-esque hitboxes.

The first of these doesn't require any major rework of the model, just shifting the angles on the shoulders and elbows. The other two should require little more than alterations to spreadsheet entries. While this likely won't make the Nightstar into tier 1 material, it will at least make it a viable alternative to King Crabs and Annihilators.

Plz Pgi do these

JackalBeast, on 29 March 2018 - 03:56 PM, said:

Good thing the Annihilator dropped the month before, amirite?

3 lbx/AC 10s (can even run 3 Gauss but not recommended)
1 var,9J has hefty armor quirks.
1 var, 9FC has a Max 400 engine with 5E and 2 B
The hero is much like the Anni hero with its missile and energy points. It's odd to run outside of MRM vomit or lurms (choke, gasp)
The other ones tho, have plenty of hardpoints and options to do just fine in.
It's honestly just needs to have its arm brought in a bit and have that convergence issue fixed. Even then, if you know how to aim and are careful, annoying misses can be avoided.
Hand actuators tho not necessary, would also boost it up a notch. But something's need to be left for integrity of what little is left.
The Nightstar lineup offers a variety of options and tho not meta,is plenty capable and actually tough.

Well if the Nightstar got quirked like the Anni I'd say it'd be the better mech by far.

[Krivvan]

It can do Dual Heavy Gauss. It's not that bad.

[IllCaesar]

Alexander Chenard, on 29 March 2018 - 10:26 AM, said:

I did a nightstar search so that I didnt have to make a new post....but nothing came up. So blame PGIs forums

Nothing comes up for any search because its super ******. Has been for years. If you want to search the forums you should use Google's advanced search options. If you don't know how to do it offhand there's a page (https://www.google.com/advanced_search) that walks you through it.

Anyways, the Nightstar releases for C-Bills soon. I imagine that there will be an event involving them sometime in the next two months and that they'll make changes to them once people who bought them for C-Bills have had their hands on them for a while.

[Seranov]

I actually really really like my NSR-9P. It's not the strongest mech, no, but I enjoy it quite a bit. The chassis would definitely be much better if they took the big clunky shoulder vents off and shortened the distance between the arms and the torso, but I don't see PGI making both of those changes, or any at all.

That said, I enjoy the mech and will play it even if it doesn't get buffed.

[PocketYoda]

I like the nightstars but in game they are terrible.. they need Annihilator type quirks or they never get used.

[Jackal Noble]

Here's a fun one.
2RAC2
2AC5
2er med
Ecm

That or flip the RAC to 5 and the AC to 2. Can't remember and not any near my computer.

Also can't remember if it's a LFE325 or 340

[Chimera_]

The so-called "IS response to the Deathstrike" certainly fell flat. I don't own them, but it has an awkward mix of limited build options (arm/hand actuators...), poor convergence and hilariously exaggerated Marauder hitboxes. But hey, it has structure quirks to ensure you're one durable tortilla when all your weapons are critted out. Of course, as with pretty much any mech it has builds that do ok in the right hands but there are many superior options out there.

[PAYWALL]

I had good quickplay success in the nightstar with ecm. I equipped 3x RAC2 + 1x UAC5 + ECM. First match i thought it just was luck that i wasnt focused that much, but after many other good matches i appreciated that build.

Another build i run successfully in quickmatch is the 3x UAC10 build.

[Johnny Z]

The Nighstar is an amazing looking mech, I can make it work.