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Suggestion On New Grim Plexus Domination Circle

Balance Rework

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#1 Scout Derek

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Posted 29 March 2018 - 07:34 PM

Posted Image

Some facts to consider since we've all experienced it, and what it could do to help balance this specific map and game mode;
  • Team 2 almost always reaches the circle before Team 1 with previous circle, whilst maintaining more and better cover than Team 1
  • Putting the circle on high ground means giving Team 1 more cover to work with. Team 2 always pushes into f7 on Skirmish/Assault and Domination generally.
  • The cover is more than enough; on the previous circle, Team 1 gets only two cover points and little to no cover when reaching the circle, effectively making it impossible to get in.


#2 Spare Parts Bin

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Posted 30 March 2018 - 05:30 PM

Sounds reasonable team 1 gets the short end of the stick the way it is now.

#3 Phlynn

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 11:58 AM

Domination should just not be a choice for this map. Most teams are at least half 2nd line builds (those designed to alpha then hide or stand behind someone who is taking damage and fire support). This map comes down to who loses their 1-3 brawler builds that might drop, then roll the hill.

If you want to see how many second line builds are there, just wait until the match times out and look at all the mechs still alive that never entered the circle.

Edited by Phlynn, 24 April 2018 - 11:59 AM.


#4 Brigadier Bert

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 12:47 PM

Or create cover in the g6/g7 area.

#5 BTGbullseye

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 12:59 PM

View PostBrigadier Bert, on 24 April 2018 - 12:47 PM, said:

Or create cover in the g6/g7 area.

There already is cover there.Team 1 actually has the advantage on this map, what with the high ground buildings, and the two large buildings inside the circle in F7.

Team 1 wins more often than it loses, irregardless of the tier.

#6 Brigadier Bert

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 01:25 PM

View PostBTGbullseye, on 24 April 2018 - 12:59 PM, said:

There already is cover there.Team 1 actually has the advantage on this map, what with the high ground buildings, and the two large buildings inside the circle in F7.

Team 1 wins more often than it loses, irregardless of the tier.

I mean cover that would give FULL cover against snipes from the f6 hill. There is cover over there in the area at the moment, as you say, but the fully obscuring cover is just outside of the cap area.

And no team 1 does not have the advantage, most of their high ground is flat surface with some half cover for heavies and assault. Only on the right side of this plateau (and on the left aswell but this cover has no use in this ditch fight that domination forces, smartasses) is full cover and 1 narrow pillar on the edge of 'the ditch'.
About those 'two large buildings inside the circle in F7': the problem this cover gives is that the guys on top of the plateau cant cover the guys halfway down the f6/f7 ditch without exposing to snipes from the f7 hill so dont expect pugs to help you out there when your being harrased by lights/mediums from team 2 that are down in the ditch and being covered by their mates.

Team 1 is capable of forming a good firing line to cover the e6/e7 area, which works in skirmish etc. but on domination the fight is forced between the two hills and the way it is now it just doesn't work.

Edited by Brigadier Bert, 24 April 2018 - 01:38 PM.


#7 Throe

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 02:22 PM

I disagree that anything needs changed here. Your new green outline basically encircles the area where people predominately already tend to fight on this map, simply based on the cover available. It creates a fun two-part challenge, where you've got to make sure you protect the circle while also exerting influence on the side of the circle where all the good cover is available.

If you move the Domination circle in such a way, you're shifting the entire fight much more around the F7/G7 hill, which is going to turn Domination on this map into pure NASCAR, which we already have plenty of, especially on this map in Skirmish, where everyone tends toward that hill already.

The way it is now is much better. It encourages smart flanking and situational awareness, while strongly discouraging NASCAR.

#8 Spare Parts Bin

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 04:09 PM

Just like Alpine Peaks the team that can acquire cover plus high ground really is in the catbird seat; to you non- southerners a position of inherent advantage.

#9 Brigadier Bert

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 03:32 AM

View PostThroe, on 24 April 2018 - 02:22 PM, said:

I disagree that anything needs changed here. Your new green outline basically encircles the area where people predominately already tend to fight on this map, simply based on the cover available. It creates a fun two-part challenge, where you've got to make sure you protect the circle while also exerting influence on the side of the circle where all the good cover is available.

If you move the Domination circle in such a way, you're shifting the entire fight much more around the F7/G7 hill, which is going to turn Domination on this map into pure NASCAR, which we already have plenty of, especially on this map in Skirmish, where everyone tends toward that hill already.

The way it is now is much better. It encourages smart flanking and situational awareness, while strongly discouraging NASCAR.

So you say the new green outline basically changes nothing about where the fighting is taking place and then you continue to suggest this new set up would encourage a whole different fight from whats happening now? Wheres the logic in that?!

Also I see you wanna blame **** on NASCAR which in my opinion is an excuse I hear constantly from 2nd line mechs to not follow the brawlers and an excuse from brawlers for not waiting for the 2nd line mechs. In both cases excuses for BAD TEAM PLAY!!!

Ill repeat what I said before to get it in those peanuts: While both teams have some cover inside the circle that can be utilized by lights/mediums fairly well. Team 2 can provide far better cover fire for these fasties that hold the circle. Team 1 can give some fire support from the plateau but the slope on their side is too steep to fire at enemies down in the f6/f7 ditch without overexposing.

ps: boohoo nascar

Edited by Brigadier Bert, 25 April 2018 - 03:34 AM.


#10 Spare Parts Bin

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 03:35 AM

I like this map but lack of cover for Domination is the flaw here.

#11 Brigadier Bert

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 08:15 AM

[Redacted]

Edited by draiocht, 25 April 2018 - 09:32 AM.
unconstructive


#12 Throe

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 08:36 AM

View PostBrigadier Bert, on 25 April 2018 - 03:32 AM, said:

So you say the new green outline basically changes nothing about where the fighting is taking place and then you continue to suggest this new set up would encourage a whole different fight from whats happening now? Wheres the logic in that?!
ps: boohoo nascar


Posted Image
You clearly didn't read what I said. Moving the circle will change the whole dynamic of the map. You might not like it, but plenty of players do. If it needed to be changed, PGI has data about which side wins on that map more often, and they'd know it without you coming here whining about it.

And yes, NASCAR is boring. It's the same strategy on every map it occurs on. I don't mind it all that much, as it's usually a pretty effective strategy, but it doesn't need to be made the only valid strategy on every map, on every game mode. Making the change you're suggesting just changes up one more situation to make NASCAR the *only* valid strategy, when right now, this map is more fun the way it is.

You're attempting to illustrate how players *should* use the new circle and the cover within it. I'm illustrating how players *will* use the new circle and the cover within it.

#13 Brigadier Bert

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 10:32 AM

Nice meme, I rate 5/7

You also clearly didnt read what I said, I never said that we have to move the circle. All im making a point for is that people that take the current circle that are on team 1 are screwed because their fire support cant give them decent covering fire without exposing to the snipers/fire support from the f6 hill.

And about NASCAR: if you have a team with brawlers and fire support, this is an oversimplification of the team composition I must say, how do you expect to win if all the brawlers just stay out of the fight? It is the responsibility of fire support players to cover brawlers and it is the responsebility of brawlers not to dive head first into the enemy firing line. What you are reffering to as NASCAR is not a tactic it is a combination of overextending brawlers and fire support mechs that dont want to give up their good spot to move the firing line forward. BAD TEAMPLAY

And how I described the cover is the current situation not how the new circle should be used. Hell I don even want the circle to move, give me some decent cover right in the middle of the open crater and Ill fight team 2 from there. As it is now however players on team 1 that take the domination circle are screwed.

Maybe try to have an exchange of thoughts instead of just wanting to be right.

Edited by Brigadier Bert, 26 April 2018 - 02:52 AM.


#14 Throe

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 06:28 PM

View PostBrigadier Bert, on 25 April 2018 - 10:32 AM, said:

I never said that we have to move the circle.

Sir, the title of your post is, "
SUGGESTION ON NEW GRIM PLEXUS DOMINATION CIRCLE

#15 Brigadier Bert

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 02:46 AM

View PostThroe, on 27 April 2018 - 06:28 PM, said:

Sir, the title of your post is, "
SUGGESTION ON NEW GRIM PLEXUS DOMINATION CIRCLE

It's not my thread mate. Started by Scout Derek, Mar 29 2018 08:34 PM.

I'm merely suggesting to add cover or change the current cover.

Have a nice day o7

#16 Throe

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 02:31 PM

View PostBrigadier Bert, on 28 April 2018 - 02:46 AM, said:

It's not my thread mate. Started by Scout Derek, Mar 29 2018 08:34 PM.

I'm merely suggesting to add cover or change the current cover.

Have a nice day o7

I see. Thanks for the correction.

You seriously misunderstood my response though. I was saying moving the circle *over* where the fighting currently takes place will cause the fighting to move from that area. People won't just fight inside the circle because there's where they fought before. The new circle location he suggested is close enough to the hill that it will cause people to NASCAR on this map/gamemode far too often, when we have existing combinations of this map/gamemode where people do nothing but NASCAR already. Homogenizing the maps is not a solution to frustration.

I'd be ok with adding cover, although I don't really feel it's necessary.

Edited by Throe, 28 April 2018 - 02:31 PM.


#17 Brigadier Bert

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Posted 12 May 2018 - 05:44 AM

New patch notes show you tackled this problem. Thx, hope the new set up is gonna give some noice fights. And if not maybe I'll complain some more. Salute to the people that are actually working on this game o7.





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