37 replies to this topic

[naterist]

what if pgi created a crowdfunder for an upgraded fw like hbs did. they can create a design, explain specifically what will be in the upgraded fw, and have more features possible if they raise more money, with different teirs of features that could be funded? and if the lowest teir isnt fundraised, they just do a straight refund?


would anyone here buy into that cropwdfunder? i think i might, if it was well thought out enough. especially if they were really transparent. they could do a roundtable before unleahing the crowdfunder with ideas from the community, and i imagine itd be a pretty long one, then go through and cherry pick whats actually feasable for them to do then realease it with its teirs, ranked from least expensive to acomplish at the lower teirs, and things that are harder to accomplish at the higher teirs, and see how much money it raises. could even do different rewards, like a free mechcon ticket, colors, the chance to send in a non copyrighted decal for inclusion in the game. stuff like that that is cool, but not expensive. and see what happens, good idea eh?

[Fuerchtenichts]

For that kind of scenario PGI would need to have an overall actual game design (not just FP but QP, Solaris & Lobby) and a functioning requirement engineering and management process. After several years as a customer I really doubt that they have something like this in place. It's all try and error! (#BUYAMECHPACK)

There was never a lack of ideas coming from the community. PGI really tried in the past and even now to take some of them and integrate them into the game. But due to missing transparency of the consequences, these changes will continue to cause problems in other parts of the game. The latest example are the running FP events and the problems for the loyalists to get their loot bags of the IS/CLAN event in time.

Perhaps your idea is interesting for PGI to minimize their financial risks regarding further game development but I don't expect them to fix the underlying problems of their game development processes.

Edited by Fuerchtenichts, 29 March 2018 - 11:23 PM.

[Johnathan Tanner]

naterist, on 29 March 2018 - 10:21 PM, said:

what if pgi created a crowdfunder for an upgraded fw like hbs did. they can create a design, explain specifically what will be in the upgraded fw, and have more features possible if they raise more money, with different teirs of features that could be funded? and if the lowest teir isnt fundraised, they just do a straight refund?


would anyone here buy into that cropwdfunder? i think i might, if it was well thought out enough. especially if they were really transparent. they could do a roundtable before unleahing the crowdfunder with ideas from the community, and i imagine itd be a pretty long one, then go through and cherry pick whats actually feasable for them to do then realease it with its teirs, ranked from least expensive to acomplish at the lower teirs, and things that are harder to accomplish at the higher teirs, and see how much money it raises. could even do different rewards, like a free mechcon ticket, colors, the chance to send in a non copyrighted decal for inclusion in the game. stuff like that that is cool, but not expensive. and see what happens, good idea eh?

No, From historical precedent we know right off the bat.

1. It would not be well thought out. (See-Historical precedent)

2. It certainly would not be transparent. (See-Historical precedent)

3. The round tables were a complete **** show which no good came from.(Expanding on that point.) One of the big things being pushed for in phase 3 was the ability to form alliances between factions to alleviate some of the single lane stupidity and share the bukkits. This also would also have given the space nerd politics guys something to do. Its kinda silly really considering we already had the ability to make alliances in phase 2. The idea was slain by "That would be hard to program". So if they are unwilling to do something as simple as that.... Idk what you can ever expect from them.

Also the crowd funding you are describing has already been done. They were called "FOUNDERS PACKS" /thread

[naterist]

the og title wqas, "i thought this up while drinking and smopking weed." so im not attached to the idea. just a thought

[Yondu Udonta]

Justify? They didn't even fulfill the initial promises of FP. After years of neglect it is only right that they deliver their promises to their customer base. And funding? Plenty of funding from the never-ending mech packs.

[Vellron2005]

naterist, on 29 March 2018 - 10:21 PM, said:

what if pgi created a crowdfunder for an upgraded fw like hbs did. they can create a design, explain specifically what will be in the upgraded fw, and have more features possible if they raise more money, with different teirs of features that could be funded? and if the lowest teir isnt fundraised, they just do a straight refund?


would anyone here buy into that cropwdfunder? i think i might, if it was well thought out enough. especially if they were really transparent. they could do a roundtable before unleahing the crowdfunder with ideas from the community, and i imagine itd be a pretty long one, then go through and cherry pick whats actually feasable for them to do then realease it with its teirs, ranked from least expensive to acomplish at the lower teirs, and things that are harder to accomplish at the higher teirs, and see how much money it raises. could even do different rewards, like a free mechcon ticket, colors, the chance to send in a non copyrighted decal for inclusion in the game. stuff like that that is cool, but not expensive. and see what happens, good idea eh?

While I applaud the idea, the major problem with it is PGI itself.

From my own experience with PGI, they have a tendency to over-promise things, and not deliver them.

So if they promise they will do things A, B, and C for FP, and we pay them to do it, they will after months of development state that thing A is impossible to do, they are doing thing B, and are doing half of thing C, but are also doing thing D and another mech pack.

They tend to overestimate their success in creating features other than Mechs (sometimes even those, in the case of Escalation mechs).

However..

IF they could somehow convince us that they will actually do things A. B. and C, and do them as presented, I would support them.

FP needs a complete rework, from the ground up. Not just tweaks and faction bonuses. A complete mode rework is needed. That means new maps. New game modes. New planetary values. A re-imagining of what factions mean and how they work. Complete redesign-of about 1/3 of the whole game.

[Johnathan Tanner]

Vellron2005, on 30 March 2018 - 12:16 AM, said:

Complete redesign-of about 1/3 of the whole game.

Thats being done, And its gonna affect more than just 1/3 of the game. Its called solaris. I can not wait to see how they are gonna butcher quirks, tech, balance. Just to make the potato's that are gonna get completely destroyed in russ's thunder-dome want to play it.

[naterist]

If solaris ends up being good though, like, immersive and fully fleshed out, would that up your trust levels man?

[Bud Crue]

naterist, on 30 March 2018 - 01:05 AM, said:

If solaris ends up being good though, like, immersive and fully fleshed out, would that up your trust levels man?

Addressing only the above aspect of your proposal and commentary (and ignoring the low hanging fruit of asking this community for more funding to make a new game given the history of the funding of this game) by PGI's own proposals and subsequent comments we know it won't be "immersive and fully fleshed out" because it isn't really "Solaris" by any historical view of the IP. Thus your hypothetical is an impossibility right off the bat.

But even if we ignore the lack of a common and historical understanding of what Solaris is supposed to be as defined by the old books and MW4, what we are getting with there PGI-ification of Solaris-7 is nothing more than taking what you can do right now in a private lobby, make it public, add some rewards, and a bit of fluff and call it Solaris-7.

That is not immersive, and throwing on some "patrons" to "sponsor" your participation in that lobby, some Duncan Fisher quips to listen to while you play in that lobby, and some friggin mech hats and codpiecees to look at while you are in that lobby does not suddenly make that lobby "Solaris-7"; and it sure doesn't make it "immersive and fully fleshed out", because it is after all just the private lobby we have right now with some stuff tacked on and THAT is not Solaris.

And hell, don't even get me started on the artifice of the mech divisions, their own individual and inevitable metas and balance issues, Paul's waffling on flamers, and who knows what other Solaris only limitations that they force on the mode; and how all of that screws with one's idea of "immersion".

Edited by Bud Crue, 30 March 2018 - 01:58 AM.

[Eisenhorne]

naterist, on 29 March 2018 - 10:21 PM, said:

what if pgi created a crowdfunder for an upgraded fw like hbs did. they can create a design, explain specifically what will be in the upgraded fw, and have more features possible if they raise more money, with different teirs of features that could be funded? and if the lowest teir isnt fundraised, they just do a straight refund?


would anyone here buy into that cropwdfunder? i think i might, if it was well thought out enough. especially if they were really transparent. they could do a roundtable before unleahing the crowdfunder with ideas from the community, and i imagine itd be a pretty long one, then go through and cherry pick whats actually feasable for them to do then realease it with its teirs, ranked from least expensive to acomplish at the lower teirs, and things that are harder to accomplish at the higher teirs, and see how much money it raises. could even do different rewards, like a free mechcon ticket, colors, the chance to send in a non copyrighted decal for inclusion in the game. stuff like that that is cool, but not expensive. and see what happens, good idea eh?

You are describing the original founders program almost. It didn't work out very well for us...

[Aylward]

You can't be serious... after the last 5 yrs, you really want to front them some more money to try again ?? the same people who said "Programming is hard", "Scheduling is hard", "You're on an island with the vocal minority", "we know what you want better than you do" and many more of the same caliber....

The same ones who have a solid, proven track record of failing to meet developmental promises for years now, even when heavily funded and supposedly focused on it... and have fairly consistently lied to us for years now while doing a generally piss poor job of even coming close to what was expected or for that matter managing it much less developing it...

The same ones whose spokesman can't seem to pull off a sober interview and without insulting his client base..Whose stock answer for anything they didn't already have in mind seems to be "It wont work"....

Same ones that seem to have purposefully and methodically driven off much of the population with bad decision followed by bad implementation followed by bad response, over and over and over and over....Until we were reduced to "the bucket".....these are the people you want to hand even more money to up front to do more of the same ??

Sorry, but that's a bit much for me. I'm definitely on a cash upon delivery basis with them right now... ie.. if they actually produced what they promised, many of us might plug our credit cards back in again. but not before.. I haven't purchased anything since the cyclops for the same reasons and more... why in heck would i put more up front ?? Snowball's chance in Terra Therma of that, I'm afraid..

I'm done with the perpetual beta cycle "pay for it now while we see IF they can then develop it" thing here.. only to find out usually that means no...but no takesie backsies...btw..Do you want to buy a mech pack ?? they're on sale this week... You'll get them in 3 months.

[Sjorpha]

You don't get crowdfund a feature, fail to deliver it for 5 years and then ask the same people to crowdfund the same feature again.

For good or bad I believe PGI no longer has the credibility for crowdfunding anything whatsoever, they will need to front their own projects or find investors for the forseeable future.

[Nightbird]

Nope, it's a matter of knowing how. Honestly, we also have to see how successful Battletech is first.

Edited by Nightbird, 30 March 2018 - 07:54 PM.

[naterist]

Aylward, on 30 March 2018 - 06:36 AM, said:

You can't be serious...

to be fair

naterist, on 29 March 2018 - 11:46 PM, said:

the og title was, "i thought this up while drinking and smoking weed." so im not attached to the idea. just a thought

[DevlinCognito]

Aylward, on 30 March 2018 - 06:36 AM, said:

You can't be serious... after the last 5 yrs, you really want to front them some more money to try again ?? the same people who said "Programming is hard", "Scheduling is hard", "You're on an island with the vocal minority", "we know what you want better than you do" and many more of the same caliber....

The same ones who have a solid, proven track record of failing to meet developmental promises for years now, even when heavily funded and supposedly focused on it... and have fairly consistently lied to us for years now while doing a generally piss poor job of even coming close to what was expected or for that matter managing it much less developing it...

The same ones whose spokesman can't seem to pull off a sober interview and without insulting his client base..Whose stock answer for anything they didn't already have in mind seems to be "It wont work"....

Same ones that seem to have purposefully and methodically driven off much of the population with bad decision followed by bad implementation followed by bad response, over and over and over and over....Until we were reduced to "the bucket".....these are the people you want to hand even more money to up front to do more of the same ??

Sorry, but that's a bit much for me. I'm definitely on a cash upon delivery basis with them right now... ie.. if they actually produced what they promised, many of us might plug our credit cards back in again. but not before.. I haven't purchased anything since the cyclops for the same reasons and more... why in heck would i put more up front ?? Snowball's chance in Terra Therma of that, I'm afraid..

I'm done with the perpetual beta cycle "pay for it now while we see IF they can then develop it" thing here.. only to find out usually that means no...but no takesie backsies...btw..Do you want to buy a mech pack ?? they're on sale this week... You'll get them in 3 months.

So much this.

In fairness to PGI however, they have managed to do something I never thought possible, they have managed to make me have zero interest in a shiny new Battletech game, something I never thought would be possible, so there is that achievement I guess. A Dev is only as good as their last game, and the way they have handled this one is .... spectacular in its fail.

[Asym]

As I have said before, I avoided MWO's initial formation and release... It was too big in scope. The last MW game was fun but, pointed out the magnitude of 3D battle space mechanics; FPS needs for close combat to be successful; open terrain and large areas for larger numbers of "team" players; in-team/in-game communications since the number one requirement teams have is to talk to each other; and, a solid story line that has been called "lore, rememberances or history" since MW's inception in the 1990's.... Some of the requirements are opposing in nature....i.e. FPS brawling versus open terrrain, etc.... The community was split from day one.

I've kinda done this type of work for a living and to be honest, PGI failed at day one and the Founders knew that on day 2... Star Citizen is another just like MWO. A flashy sales pitch, some cool game play sequences, a "tag" or "hook" to entice everything you know you want; and, it only cost $75.00 to join.......years later, still not what they said they were going to do....

Now, we're back to where the entire trip started: Solaris..... Why, because it is a 2D battlespace, limited terrain, closed to large teams, an arcade FPS and involves nothing but brawling. Notice, PGI learnt something from 2012: limit yourself to what you can do with what you have..... The problem is, they drove off over 50% of the people they really needed to keep, the Founders, whom they made promises too and reneiged on their investment of faith...

[slide]

<------ See that founder tag.

I crowdfunded this game (and plenty more since) to get the community warfare they promised (in 90 days) when this game was first proposed.

I didn't get even a fraction of what PGI described in either their original vision or the relaunched vision a year or so later (which got even more money out of me).

You cannot give PGI money on a promise, unless it's a mech pack.

For what ever reason PGI are incapable of delivering on their own vision, let alone what the community might happen to agree on. I don't know what their problem is, talent, leadership or time but I doubt it is from a lack of funds that has caused them to under deliver on CW.

[Asym]

Johnathan Tanner, on 30 March 2018 - 12:25 AM, said:

Thats being done, And its gonna affect more than just 1/3 of the game. Its called solaris. I can not wait to see how they are gonna butcher quirks, tech, balance. Just to make the potato's that are gonna get completely destroyed in russ's thunder-dome want to play it.

JT, look, I want you to think for a minute. Elongating TTK is a requirement that PGI has been doing since May 2017.... You can't have a Arcade FPS in a small space that last 15 seconds. Just can't.

You may or may not be "that good"..... But, I'll give you the benefit os the doubt here. If you are in the top 10% of players, can only the top 10% of players create enough cash flow for PGI to keep the game open? No......doesn't work that way. To keep PGI solvent and open, whales need to buy mech packs and the noobs and average players need to stay in-game "wanting to buy Premimum time or mech packs"..... You seem to want to eliminate them at every post??? Eliminating the player base is what has happened in FP and what did you reap from what you and others have sown: Solaris.... Casue and effect. Teams over 4 become toxic in the videogame universe.....the entire industry is trying to figure out how to solve this right now... At the moment, the catch word is meritocracy.... Yep, MWO is there....

Think about it..... It takes a community to support a game franchise....

[Johnathan Tanner]

Asym, on 03 April 2018 - 06:30 AM, said:

JT, look, I want you to think for a minute. Elongating TTK is a requirement that PGI has been doing since May 2017.... You can't have a Arcade FPS in a small space that last 15 seconds. Just can't.

You may or may not be "that good"..... But, I'll give you the benefit os the doubt here. If you are in the top 10% of players, can only the top 10% of players create enough cash flow for PGI to keep the game open? No......doesn't work that way. To keep PGI solvent and open, whales need to buy mech packs and the noobs and average players need to stay in-game "wanting to buy Premimum time or mech packs"..... You seem to want to eliminate them at every post??? Eliminating the player base is what has happened in FP and what did you reap from what you and others have sown: Solaris.... Casue and effect. Teams over 4 become toxic in the videogame universe.....the entire industry is trying to figure out how to solve this right now... At the moment, the catch word is meritocracy.... Yep, MWO is there....

Think about it..... It takes a community to support a game franchise....

Have just consulted "merriam webster's dictionary of english usage" I find I like the word "meritocracy". Thank you for that. I also want to thank you for implying that FP is going down hill because of its players. And not because of years of apathy neglect and bad design choices by PGI.

[naterist]

Johnathan Tanner, on 03 April 2018 - 08:14 AM, said:

Have just consulted &quot;merriam webster's dictionary of english usage&quot; I find I like the word &quot;meritocracy&quot;. Thank you for that. I also want to thank you for implying that FP is going down hill because of its players. And not because of years of apathy neglect and bad design choices by PGI.

To be fair, it would have stabalized its population a while ago if fw wasnt so toxic. You see it in a lot of other games on the market. We still get newbs because, well, pgi does events sometimes for fw and thd newbs stick around. We have population bleedoff partly because theres some toxic ***** fuckas in fw.

Edit: realla pgi? Mother was the censored word in ***** fuckas

Edited by naterist, 03 April 2018 - 08:22 AM.