Hello everyone, whats worth mentioning is I am a new player fumbling my way through learning MWO. So please dumb down the advice, I have been playing with the different Trial mechs and been favoring the Griffon. So I bought one, my first mech is the GRF-3M.
As it stands it's "unmodified" I'd like to learn to rebuild it for the best possible results, I'm open minded on weapons and I tend to hover about the battle with team mates and just try my best to put out damage.
Whats a beginners build for the GRF-3M?
What can I do to protect myself from Missiles, if possible?
What should do about gathering different weapons, skills and improving my pilot and mech?
Thanks for the help
Cheers
1
14 replies to this topic
#2
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- Liquid Metal
- 2,111 posts
Member
- LocationUpstate NY
Posted 30 March 2018 - 11:24 PM
OK, so someone correct me if I'm being dumb, but I'd do something like this with a GRF-3M:
https://mwo.smurfy-n...47fe249458417bb
Gives you a big punch of 4 MRM's (I picked 4 MRM 10's instead of an MRM40 because they weigh less, and if you get shot in the back you have a chance to only lose 10 launcher instead of all 40), some good speed, and some er mediums as backups. And you can jump. AND it has AMS!
You can protect yourself from missiles by equipping an AMS (in build above), and by breaking line of sight of missile boats. They need to keep you locked the entire time to guide the missiles in. Get behind cover, and the missiles stop tracking you. So break cover and keep moving, and they'll hit where you used to be instead of where you are now. Or just get behind tall cover that blocks them, so the missiles impact on it. Definitely easier to do on some maps than others.
For the build I linked, I'd play it by sticking next to the heavies and assaults, using the jump jets to pop up, firing a barrage of MRM's, and falling back into cover. Maybe poke out around hills, fire off some MRM's, then poke back. It's not a brawler. It would do best to sit back at ~400 meters or so, and fire missiles at large slow targets that are easiest to hit with the MRM's. If something has an exposed body part with the armor blown off, shoot the lasers at it.
As for gathering different weapons, don't worry about them, just buy them as you need them. You can improve skills by just playing more.
edit - Alternate build if you wanna do close-in brawling : https://mwo.smurfy-n...4beb52fca07a747 Same engine so you can try it out without having to buy a new one. It trades the MRM's for SRM's, the ER lasers for regular mediums, and drops some jump jets and the AMS to have enough ammo and room for the Artemis system to group the misslies better. You'd play this similar to the MRM one kinda, stick by the heavies and assaults, just you'd have to get a lot closer to fire on the enemy and it would be harder to get back into cover. I don't like short range brawlers as much, but you might.
https://mwo.smurfy-n...47fe249458417bb
Gives you a big punch of 4 MRM's (I picked 4 MRM 10's instead of an MRM40 because they weigh less, and if you get shot in the back you have a chance to only lose 10 launcher instead of all 40), some good speed, and some er mediums as backups. And you can jump. AND it has AMS!
You can protect yourself from missiles by equipping an AMS (in build above), and by breaking line of sight of missile boats. They need to keep you locked the entire time to guide the missiles in. Get behind cover, and the missiles stop tracking you. So break cover and keep moving, and they'll hit where you used to be instead of where you are now. Or just get behind tall cover that blocks them, so the missiles impact on it. Definitely easier to do on some maps than others.
For the build I linked, I'd play it by sticking next to the heavies and assaults, using the jump jets to pop up, firing a barrage of MRM's, and falling back into cover. Maybe poke out around hills, fire off some MRM's, then poke back. It's not a brawler. It would do best to sit back at ~400 meters or so, and fire missiles at large slow targets that are easiest to hit with the MRM's. If something has an exposed body part with the armor blown off, shoot the lasers at it.
As for gathering different weapons, don't worry about them, just buy them as you need them. You can improve skills by just playing more.
edit - Alternate build if you wanna do close-in brawling : https://mwo.smurfy-n...4beb52fca07a747 Same engine so you can try it out without having to buy a new one. It trades the MRM's for SRM's, the ER lasers for regular mediums, and drops some jump jets and the AMS to have enough ammo and room for the Artemis system to group the misslies better. You'd play this similar to the MRM one kinda, stick by the heavies and assaults, just you'd have to get a lot closer to fire on the enemy and it would be harder to get back into cover. I don't like short range brawlers as much, but you might.
Edited by Eisenhorne, 30 March 2018 - 11:28 PM.
#3
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- Shredder
- 4,806 posts
Member
Posted 30 March 2018 - 11:29 PM
What kind of ranges and weapon types do you like?
The GRF-3M is pretty much just a missile mech, no ballistics at all, too few energy mounts to really be used for that much. You could go with the old fashion and cheap to setup build of 4 SRM6s with artemis upgrades. I've setup a build that has powerful jump jets to help you get around and an AMS module to help reduce the damage you take from LRMs, though the best way to survive enemy incoming missiles is to just not get hit, if you have missiles incoming then get behind cover and you'll likely take no damage at all.
https://mwo.smurfy-n...d678209ba6342f1
Griffin's not really much of a mech for experimentation on with different weapon types due to how few combinations are available to it, but it works decently at its role of moving up to an enemy in close range and hitting them with lots of missiles, its great paired up with a big ally that also is looking to move into close range.
If I compare this build to the trial one, it runs a standard engine, so it doesn't die when you lose a side torso, so your goal is to always use your side that has no missiles in it to absorb incoming damage, just twist that torso to the enemy. Even when that torso is destroyed it still will reduce incoming damage to have shots move through that piece to your center torso. So your goal is to get into range, fire at the enemy, then torso twist your shield side towards them, then repeat once your weapons have cooled down.
In general LFE engines are favored over standard engines, but the weapons of this build take up all the slots in the side torso, so an LFE won't fit.
The GRF-3M is pretty much just a missile mech, no ballistics at all, too few energy mounts to really be used for that much. You could go with the old fashion and cheap to setup build of 4 SRM6s with artemis upgrades. I've setup a build that has powerful jump jets to help you get around and an AMS module to help reduce the damage you take from LRMs, though the best way to survive enemy incoming missiles is to just not get hit, if you have missiles incoming then get behind cover and you'll likely take no damage at all.
https://mwo.smurfy-n...d678209ba6342f1
Griffin's not really much of a mech for experimentation on with different weapon types due to how few combinations are available to it, but it works decently at its role of moving up to an enemy in close range and hitting them with lots of missiles, its great paired up with a big ally that also is looking to move into close range.
If I compare this build to the trial one, it runs a standard engine, so it doesn't die when you lose a side torso, so your goal is to always use your side that has no missiles in it to absorb incoming damage, just twist that torso to the enemy. Even when that torso is destroyed it still will reduce incoming damage to have shots move through that piece to your center torso. So your goal is to get into range, fire at the enemy, then torso twist your shield side towards them, then repeat once your weapons have cooled down.
In general LFE engines are favored over standard engines, but the weapons of this build take up all the slots in the side torso, so an LFE won't fit.
#4
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- Knight Errant
- 11 posts
Member
- LocationNew Zealand
Posted 30 March 2018 - 11:48 PM
Thanks Eisenhorne and Champion, I'll start making the changes and learn to play to the build Eisenhorne recommended. I needed some where to start and the more I play the more I'll see and experience. I think I hang back at 400m, there's safety in numbers and let the experienced take lead.
#5
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- The Guide
- 23,384 posts
Welcoming Committee
Posted 30 March 2018 - 11:49 PM
Historically I did an LRM-20 + Artemis, 3 Streak SRM-2s, a medium laser and a TAG.
(Less jumpy example)
Only thing I've changed after four years is I turned the medium laser into an ER ML.
Try Eisen's idea first. If it doesn't work, modify it with SRMs of similar weight. My build relies a lot on that second crosshair so it is debatable how much one could take advantage of it before making use of it. Also I don't bunny hop as much now. But it's there if you don't strike gold with the other designs given.
(Less jumpy example)
Only thing I've changed after four years is I turned the medium laser into an ER ML.
Try Eisen's idea first. If it doesn't work, modify it with SRMs of similar weight. My build relies a lot on that second crosshair so it is debatable how much one could take advantage of it before making use of it. Also I don't bunny hop as much now. But it's there if you don't strike gold with the other designs given.
Edited by Koniving, 30 March 2018 - 11:55 PM.
#6
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- The Mercenary
- 4,749 posts
Member
- LocationPoland
Posted 31 March 2018 - 12:32 AM
The 3M wasn't the best variant to purchase. You can't do 4xASRM6 while using a LFE, for one. The 2N can do it and has ECM on top of that.
They don't weigh less, actually - they only do in comparison to MRM20 and MRM30, while 4x10 = 1x40. The difference is in cooldown and heat generation.
Eisenhorne, on 30 March 2018 - 11:24 PM, said:
I picked 4 MRM 10's instead of an MRM40 because they weigh less, and if you get shot in the back you have a chance to only lose 10 launcher instead of all 40
They don't weigh less, actually - they only do in comparison to MRM20 and MRM30, while 4x10 = 1x40. The difference is in cooldown and heat generation.
Edited by Horseman, 31 March 2018 - 12:35 AM.
#7
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- The Demon
- 583 posts
Member
Posted 31 March 2018 - 01:58 AM
https://mwo.smurfy-n...27f6e67ffa0824b
This. All you need to rock. You'll need to do some tuning suiting your playstyle after some fights.
It is one of the few medium mechs that allow MRM60 with relatively small spread.
Counter your enemies, dont just rush against them! Kite the ones with close ranged weapons and kill those with long ranged in close!
Works brilliantly in scouting too!
This. All you need to rock. You'll need to do some tuning suiting your playstyle after some fights.
It is one of the few medium mechs that allow MRM60 with relatively small spread.
Counter your enemies, dont just rush against them! Kite the ones with close ranged weapons and kill those with long ranged in close!
Works brilliantly in scouting too!
Edited by GweNTLeR, 31 March 2018 - 02:09 AM.
#8
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- Overlord
- 4,908 posts
Member
- LocationSuffolk, England
Posted 31 March 2018 - 03:06 AM
I prefer 4 SRM4 for the bulk of the firepower, if you can afford it put in a Light engine, I recomend a 300 but 250 and 275/280 (light 280 weighs the same as light 275) also work, do not sell the XL275, I do not recomend keeping that engine in the Griffin but there are plenty of Mechs which can make good use of it, and you only get half its value if you sell it.
the reason I recomend engines in increments of 25 is that for each engine upto 250 you get an extra fixed in engine heatsink (assuming you have Double Heat Sinks those fixed heatsinks are about 30% more powerful than additional heatsinks) for engines above 250 for each 25 of engine rating you get an in engine heatsink slot where you can choose to put an extra heatsink
the reason I do not recomend keeping the XL engine is that if you loose a side torso with an XL engine fitted the Mech is dead, the greatest strength of half the varients of Griffin including the 3M is you can loose the right side of the Mech without loosing much if any combat effectiveness.
If you loose 3 engine slots the engine is destroyed and your Mech is out of the fight, the Inner Sphere eXtra Light Engine takes 3 slots in each side torso, a Clan XL or IS Light Fusion Engines takes 2 slots in each side, a standard engine takes no side torso slots, XL engines weigh half of what a standard engine does, a Light engine weighs 3/4 what a standard does.
there are plenty of Mechs which rarely loose side torsos so an XL is safe, and most light Mechs need speed and firepower so will take an XL to acheve speed with firepower, if you are moving 130+kph it becomes very dificualt for enemies to accurately target the side torso (and realy against fast Light/Medium Mechs you will have far more luck shooting the legs
when a componant (arm, leg or side torso) gets destroyed any damage passing through it is reduced by 60%, if the damage passes through a second destroyed companant (if you loose an arm or leg damage transfers to side torso, if you loose a side it transfers to center, if you loose CT or head you are dead so no damage transfer anyway) it is reduced by a further 60%, so on the Griffin if you are side on to the enemy your arm almost completely blocks your torsos, when you loose the arm and the enemy hits where the arm was 60% of any damage going to the side torso vanishes, so an AC20 would only do 8 damage, if you then also loose the side torso damage going to your Center Torso is reduced by a further 60% so an AC20 hitting the destroyed arm then passing through the destroyed torso only does 3.2 damage to the CT.
As all your firepower is on the left what you should try to do is fire then twist left so your Right Arm is taking all the incoming damage, then when the weapons are reloaded/recharged twist back and fire again, then twist left again, repeat this until ether the enemy is dead or your CT is almost out of armor, only then start twisting right to protect your LT missile racks.
as you are aiming to sacrifice your right to protect your left do not put anything important on the right side, avoid putting heatsinks on the right and do not put ammo there ether as you do not want an ammo explosion helping the enemy kill your Mech (also you do not want to loose the ammo)
I would do something like this with the GRF-3M
https://mwo.smurfy-n...6604255934cb9b4
note Smurfy does not track prices for Light or Clan XL engines, so add about 5million for the cost of the Light 300, if you want to do it cheeper swap the Light 300 for a standard 275, that gives you an extra ton to play with and costs about 1.5 mil instead of a little under 5
the reason I recomend engines in increments of 25 is that for each engine upto 250 you get an extra fixed in engine heatsink (assuming you have Double Heat Sinks those fixed heatsinks are about 30% more powerful than additional heatsinks) for engines above 250 for each 25 of engine rating you get an in engine heatsink slot where you can choose to put an extra heatsink
the reason I do not recomend keeping the XL engine is that if you loose a side torso with an XL engine fitted the Mech is dead, the greatest strength of half the varients of Griffin including the 3M is you can loose the right side of the Mech without loosing much if any combat effectiveness.
If you loose 3 engine slots the engine is destroyed and your Mech is out of the fight, the Inner Sphere eXtra Light Engine takes 3 slots in each side torso, a Clan XL or IS Light Fusion Engines takes 2 slots in each side, a standard engine takes no side torso slots, XL engines weigh half of what a standard engine does, a Light engine weighs 3/4 what a standard does.
there are plenty of Mechs which rarely loose side torsos so an XL is safe, and most light Mechs need speed and firepower so will take an XL to acheve speed with firepower, if you are moving 130+kph it becomes very dificualt for enemies to accurately target the side torso (and realy against fast Light/Medium Mechs you will have far more luck shooting the legs
when a componant (arm, leg or side torso) gets destroyed any damage passing through it is reduced by 60%, if the damage passes through a second destroyed companant (if you loose an arm or leg damage transfers to side torso, if you loose a side it transfers to center, if you loose CT or head you are dead so no damage transfer anyway) it is reduced by a further 60%, so on the Griffin if you are side on to the enemy your arm almost completely blocks your torsos, when you loose the arm and the enemy hits where the arm was 60% of any damage going to the side torso vanishes, so an AC20 would only do 8 damage, if you then also loose the side torso damage going to your Center Torso is reduced by a further 60% so an AC20 hitting the destroyed arm then passing through the destroyed torso only does 3.2 damage to the CT.
As all your firepower is on the left what you should try to do is fire then twist left so your Right Arm is taking all the incoming damage, then when the weapons are reloaded/recharged twist back and fire again, then twist left again, repeat this until ether the enemy is dead or your CT is almost out of armor, only then start twisting right to protect your LT missile racks.
as you are aiming to sacrifice your right to protect your left do not put anything important on the right side, avoid putting heatsinks on the right and do not put ammo there ether as you do not want an ammo explosion helping the enemy kill your Mech (also you do not want to loose the ammo)
I would do something like this with the GRF-3M
https://mwo.smurfy-n...6604255934cb9b4
note Smurfy does not track prices for Light or Clan XL engines, so add about 5million for the cost of the Light 300, if you want to do it cheeper swap the Light 300 for a standard 275, that gives you an extra ton to play with and costs about 1.5 mil instead of a little under 5
Edited by Rogue Jedi, 31 March 2018 - 07:34 AM.
#9
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- Tai-sho
- 7,834 posts
Member
- LocationImperial City, Luthien - Draconis Combine
Posted 31 March 2018 - 03:50 AM
Many new players tend to get the feeling their newly purchased stock mechs are squishy, so pay attention to Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood armor redistribution, where Front L/C/R is maxed out and only 5pts of armor on the rear sections. By default stock mechs are setup based on tabletop configurations so that MWO mechs rear armor sections will have 15+ armor points (fyi armor/is points are double that from the tabletop). Luckily, Trial mechs are (C) Champion mechs (created and voted on by players years back) where the armor has been redistributed for this FPS setting, while all stock mechs (non (C) or other special markings) armor have not been redistributed, or front loaded.
Edited by Tarl Cabot, 31 March 2018 - 04:00 AM.
#10
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- The Guide
- 23,384 posts
Welcoming Committee
Posted 31 March 2018 - 08:09 AM
(If 5 turns out to be too squishy for rear armor, up it to 8. This is what I run until I've got an idea of how much the back will get hit. If very rarely I'll drop down as low as 2, and if too often I raise it up a bit or re-evaluate what I might be doing to expose my back.)
#11
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- Knight Errant
- 11 posts
Member
- LocationNew Zealand
Posted 31 March 2018 - 09:18 PM
So I have great news, as I've been reading advice and learning to mod the GRF-3M with changes I've also been playing with more success and a few wins. I'd say the Griffen is forgiving enough for beginners to hide in the shadows of my team mates and make an impact but also fast enough to move into cover when the OH **** moments happen. (Getting shot in the back sux)
While enjoying the learning curve of the GRF-3M. What Heavy Mech should I be saving for, keeping in mind my new found preference of missiles and lasers?
Thanks for all your input
While enjoying the learning curve of the GRF-3M. What Heavy Mech should I be saving for, keeping in mind my new found preference of missiles and lasers?
Thanks for all your input
#12
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- The Mercenary
- 4,749 posts
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- LocationPoland
Posted 01 April 2018 - 12:18 AM
On the IS side, there are variants of Catapult, Archer, Warhammer and Maraider that fit that niche. Some of them may do better with MRMs than SRMs due to limited number of hardpoints.
Use Smurfy to check the quirks and hardpoints, as well as test-fit your intended build on the mech: https://mwo.smurfy-net.de/
Use Smurfy to check the quirks and hardpoints, as well as test-fit your intended build on the mech: https://mwo.smurfy-net.de/
Edited by Horseman, 01 April 2018 - 12:25 AM.
#13
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- The Guide
- 23,384 posts
Welcoming Committee
Posted 01 April 2018 - 10:41 AM
Archer and Catapult are personal favorites for the role.
#14
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- Liquid Metal
- 2,111 posts
Member
- LocationUpstate NY
Posted 01 April 2018 - 02:21 PM
Warhammer 6D is one of the best for mid range laser support. The Grasshopper 5H I've been having a lot of fun with as a ppc jump sniper, but it's kind of hard to use.
#15
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- The Spear
- 2,706 posts
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- LocationDark Space
Posted 01 April 2018 - 02:50 PM
8lindspott, on 31 March 2018 - 09:18 PM, said:
So I have great news, as I've been reading advice and learning to mod the GRF-3M with changes I've also been playing with more success and a few wins. I'd say the Griffen is forgiving enough for beginners to hide in the shadows of my team mates and make an impact but also fast enough to move into cover when the OH **** moments happen. (Getting shot in the back sux)
While enjoying the learning curve of the GRF-3M. What Heavy Mech should I be saving for, keeping in mind my new found preference of missiles and lasers?
Thanks for all your input
While enjoying the learning curve of the GRF-3M. What Heavy Mech should I be saving for, keeping in mind my new found preference of missiles and lasers?
Thanks for all your input
If you want to vomit lasers from a strong platform, I'd choose the Warhammer 6D.
Mid-Range Large Pulse + ERML:
XL340 version
LFE325 version
Max range ERLL + ERML vomit:
XL340 version
LFE320 version
If you want a Clan mech, the Hellbringer Prime is always the right choice for lasers.
Classic C-Large Pulse + ERML
Heavy Large + ERML LOL Alpha
Edited by LT. HARDCASE, 01 April 2018 - 02:51 PM.
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