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Mechwarrior 5: Volumetric Scaling Done Right?!?


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#41 Hauptmann Keg Steiner

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 08:47 AM

View PostMetus regem, on 11 April 2018 - 07:48 AM, said:



If we use the Bushwacker as an example, it uses a Hermes 275xl engine, it is the only mech in lore to use that engine

The Quasimodo says otherwise.

#42 Metus regem

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 08:53 AM

View PostIdToaster, on 11 April 2018 - 08:47 AM, said:

The Quasimodo says otherwise.



But not the same one...

http://www.sarna.net...i/Hermes_275_XL
Manufactured on Manufactured by Typically used in
Tharkad TharHes Industries BSW-X1 Bushwacker
Kendall Kali Yama/Alphard Trading Corporation QSM-3D Quasimodo



So not the same Hermes 275XL, my point still stands. Different factories will have different patterns. For a real world example, a Chevy motor will have different motor mounts than a Ford engine, even if you could find two of them of the same displacement.

Edited by Metus regem, 11 April 2018 - 08:57 AM.


#43 Nightbird

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 08:55 AM

They're standardized equipment, i.e. a 5/8in wrench made by any manufacturer should turn the same bolt. Battletech XL is standardized to 12 crits, same story.

#44 Hauptmann Keg Steiner

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 09:18 AM

View PostMetus regem, on 11 April 2018 - 08:53 AM, said:

So not the same Hermes 275XL, my point still stands. Different factories will have different patterns. For a real world example, a Chevy motor will have different motor mounts than a Ford engine, even if you could find two of them of the same displacement.

I didn't realize Chevy and Ford were the same company. I'd expect different Chevy plants making the same engine to make... the same engine.

Also the Trebaruna uses Pitban 285s from at least three different factories, so either standardization isn't lostech or variations on the same class of engine aren't a big enough deal, setting aside mech chassis that can have wildly different stock engines between variants in lore already.

#45 MW Waldorf Statler

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 09:59 AM

Love the Hollander Mech ...Who has this Mech the Room for Ammunition ?

Posted Image

and has this fragile mech the same density like a Commando or a Hunchback with his mounted AC20? and why the Gauss so big ?the same like Yellow Jacket Heli ? Posted Image and who has the Tanks thats have Place under the Feetsole of a Mech the Place for Crewmembers ,Ammunitions and Weapons by the same Weapons thats carrys the Mechs?

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 11 April 2018 - 10:02 AM.


#46 Lily from animove

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 10:05 AM

since MW5 isn't much about PvP and since bots probably get some different aim mechanics that decide about a hit or not, size and hp balance can function different than iin MWO.

#47 Prototelis

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 11:51 AM

View PostMetus regem, on 11 April 2018 - 08:53 AM, said:



Different factories will have different patterns. For a real world example, a Chevy motor will have different motor mounts than a Ford engine


A bad good example. There are more than a few ways to smash together a chevy and ford engine.

In general you can make anything work in anything else if you have access to the correct tools.

#48 Lightfoot

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 12:30 PM

View PostMark Nicholson, on 10 April 2018 - 08:26 AM, said:


Mechs have their volume measured and are then scaled to be consistent with other mechs the same tonnage. A tall lanky Assassin and a brick-shaped Cicada are very different shapes, and this process removes the ambiguity regarding how large a mech should be compared to it's peers.


Not sure. How did the Thanatos get bigger than an Awesome? Thanatos has a cube torso and 3 segment legs which have one nearly horizontal segment. In looking at the scale comparisons, it's pretty obvious the Thanatos should be shorter than the Orion since it is more massive in it's torso and long, but folded legs. Maybe it should be shorter than the Mad Cat. Certainly the massive torso of the Thanatos has been it's downfall in MWO, easier to hit and can't miss with things like missiles, MGs, and RACs etc. IMHO.


https://mwomercs.com...lease-nov-14th/

Edited by Lightfoot, 11 April 2018 - 12:34 PM.


#49 Karl Streiger

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 10:18 PM

View PostLightfoot, on 11 April 2018 - 12:30 PM, said:


Not sure. How did the Thanatos get bigger than an Awesome? Thanatos has a cube torso and 3 segment legs which have one nearly horizontal segment. In looking at the scale comparisons, it's pretty obvious the Thanatos should be shorter than the Orion since it is more massive in it's torso and long, but folded legs. Maybe it should be shorter than the Mad Cat. Certainly the massive torso of the Thanatos has been it's downfall in MWO, easier to hit and can't miss with things like missiles, MGs, and RACs etc. IMHO.


https://mwomercs.com...lease-nov-14th/

I think the issue here is the depth - a lot of Mechs comes short - (Vulture, Uziel) with more elongated body you would hardly increase their vulnerability from flanking fire but highly increae the durability from frontal attacks.

This is the problem with volume -
on a different side note - without interchangeable engine and structure -the Thanatos need to be bigger compared to the Awesome - first it got a bigger engine (aka stronger drive) it also got XL and Endosteel structure.

So with locked bodyparts - the comparison Awesome vs Thanatos would keep the Thanatos bigger - but it will be faster and similar armed or even better armed with same or better heat dissipation rate - but the Awesome is a smaller target....

Although Awesome and small target is a contraindication .... well TT boxes and pinpoint mouse aiming is not a good idea to start with however

#50 Karl Streiger

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 10:22 PM

View PostOld MW4 Ranger, on 11 April 2018 - 09:59 AM, said:

Love the Hollander Mech ...Who has this Mech the Room for Ammunition ?

Posted Image

and has this fragile mech the same density like a Commando or a Hunchback with his mounted AC20? and why the Gauss so big ?the same like Yellow Jacket Heli ? Posted Image and who has the Tanks thats have Place under the Feetsole of a Mech the Place for Crewmembers ,Ammunitions and Weapons by the same Weapons thats carrys the Mechs?

This is a Ultra AC 10 - you don't have a comparison but I think the Hollander III is not a very big Mech - pretty sure the feet of the pilot are to be found in the to protruding center torso - below the cockpit

the "smashed" vehicle below the original Thunderbolt feet was hardly more than a APC - the standard APC is hardly bigger than a van - a flat armored van

#51 Lightfoot

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 08:33 PM

View PostKarl Streiger, on 11 April 2018 - 10:18 PM, said:

I think the issue here is the depth - a lot of Mechs comes short - (Vulture, Uziel) with more elongated body you would hardly increase their vulnerability from flanking fire but highly increae the durability from frontal attacks.

This is the problem with volume -
on a different side note - without interchangeable engine and structure -the Thanatos need to be bigger compared to the Awesome - first it got a bigger engine (aka stronger drive) it also got XL and Endosteel structure.

So with locked bodyparts - the comparison Awesome vs Thanatos would keep the Thanatos bigger - but it will be faster and similar armed or even better armed with same or better heat dissipation rate - but the Awesome is a smaller target....

Although Awesome and small target is a contraindication .... well TT boxes and pinpoint mouse aiming is not a good idea to start with however


I compare it to the Orion and Timber Wolf and it's much too big both in width and depth to be so tall and that is how it plays. Very reminiscent of the original Awesome before any of the Quirks were added and the lower torso hitbox was shifted to leg damage. The size of the mech determines how much damage it takes so it is a crucial balance element that you can't escape. I think the biggest shock was that everyone expected it to get the Catapult size treatment due to it's massive Torso and long, but folded legs and then it arrives bigger than an 80 tonner. It definitely needs some quirks.

#52 Dogstar

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 10:27 PM

What I'd like to know is why, when the PGI modellers are well aware of volumetric scaling, they keep on making hugely wide and flat IS mechs? It's like they deliberately gimp one faction.

Add some depth for crying out loud!

#53 Karl Streiger

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 10:31 PM

View PostLightfoot, on 12 April 2018 - 08:33 PM, said:

The size of the mech determines how much damage it takes so it is a crucial balance element that you can't escape.

Yep - thats why volumetric scaling and tabletop hitboxes and armor values are not compatible
(not that the TT armor values had their necessary modifications after the invention of Clans)

You can have volumetric scaling, but you need to armor the hitboxes accordingly to their area.
While this is counter logical, because we all know, more area with same armor mass = less armor. But this doesn't need to be logical, it need to be playable.

Edited by Karl Streiger, 12 April 2018 - 11:05 PM.


#54 MW Waldorf Statler

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 02:20 AM

best is only 4 Standard Sceletons (human&Birdleg) and Tankchassies...Light/ Medium /Heavy /Assault and all Structures and Parts with Standard Models build in...more like Earthsiege or Frontmission

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 13 April 2018 - 02:23 AM.


#55 mogs01gt

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 10:07 AM

Why we still talking about volumetric scaling? Mechs in MWO have zero depth. We are shooting at a flat object with textures with no "armor" to puncture. The number of pixels is what matters.

#56 Cervesia

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Posted 08 April 2020 - 11:59 AM

OMG!! After 20 years of playing MW. Someone finally has the Scaling of Mechs ABSOLUTELY PERFECT. And it only took 20 years to get there. I nearly sh*t my pants.

https://www.nexusmod...naries/mods/112





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