134 replies to this topic

[Zergling]

oldradagast, on 17 April 2018 - 05:23 PM, said:

Nope. I know I'm not great, and I am fine with that because it is a game and in no way relevant to my actual, meaningful successes in life. That said, I stand by the facts that one's skill in Solaris does not come anywhere near measuring one's overall skill in this game. More QP and FP games are lost to lousy map awareness, lack of focus fire, and poor communication than not slapping enough meta on your latest dueling mech.

As for the rest, the reality is this is a GAME. It's not some demented life analogy, nor does it need to be a preening ground for epeen strokers who so badly need to "prove" how much better they are than everyone else. Nobody cares except them and - sadly - PGI, who is again wasting what limited resources they have creating another game mode to appeal to the lovers of toxic meritocracies. We did this already. It was called Faction Play. It failed because - surprise! - most people in ANY hobby or sport aren't that good at it and aren't interesting in being stomp-fodder for the elite.

So, big shock - nothing has been learned, more limited resources are being wasted, and the same try-hards who loved the FP game mode are drooling over this one. And they will kill it the exact same way they did Faction Play. Unfortunately, that may be enough to send what's left of this game off the cliff, and that's what would actually disappoint me, particularly given how painfully obvious this outcome was.

By arguing in such an emotional manner, you are giving the appearance that you care a great deal about this 'game', which combined with your generalised insults suggests a deep-seated sense of inferiority and resentment towards those you know to be better than you at the game.

Or in other words, you need to calm down and take your own advice; stop taking things so seriously AND stop throwing insults at those that do take things seriously.

Edited by Zergling, 17 April 2018 - 06:31 PM.

[oldradagast]

Chados, on 17 April 2018 - 06:19 PM, said:

I’m glad they released Solaris, because now those who need to play that way can play in the arena and leave the battlefield to those who prefer working as part of a group. In this universe I always have been a soldier, not a gladiator. I’ll watch S7 matches when that’s possible but I doubt I’ll play, the type of mech required isn’t my cup of tea (high focused tournament 1v1 brawlers) and tactics that work in a group deathmatch translate poorly to a 1v1/2v2 contest.

The strength of old Multiplayer Online Battletech was that it had S7 for the gladiator types and war for the rest of us. MWO is close to that; if FW was cooperative PvE in lance-sized drops, it would be MPBT. I’m interested to see where the planned FW revamp goes.

If they want FP to be anything worthwhile, it needs to not be "teams crushing PUGS" and it needs to not be easily solvable. All modern competitive games mix up the meta regularly with things like new content, changes, various imposed, artificial limitations, and so forth. FP was solvable, with the only "meta shakeups" being the often random balancing decisions that were made, which isn't really the right way to approach that problem.

In short, it needs to be approachable for casual players AND something that changes often enough to maintain interest, but not in random, illogical ways, nor so fast that people can't keep up, lose interest, and leave.

[oldradagast]

Zergling, on 17 April 2018 - 06:24 PM, said:

By arguing in such an emotional manner, you are giving the appearance that you care a great deal about this 'game', which combined with your generalised insults suggests a deep-seated sense of inferiority and resentment towards those you know to be better than you at the game.

tl:dr calm down

I do care about the game, yes, but not about my silly "score" in it, but continuing to have it as a venue to hang out with friends, both locally and around the world. None of us in my little unit are great at MWO, but that's not the point. We come from a mix of states and nations to get together to have fun, blow random stuff up, try out silly builds, and otherwise goof off as a group.

So, yeah - I'd hate to see what MWO is for me, a form of hang-out and a place through which I met some cool people, be destroyed by hyper-competitive types and their silly toxic beliefs just so they can be "the best!" at smashing robots together. I'm damn tired of the insane notion that a game should not be fun for most people who play it... as if they'll just keep playing? Laughable lunacy!

I don't care two cents about my ELO, rank, or whatever other meaningless yardstick is used to prove my skill at shooting pixels (I'm Tier 2 - big whoop!), but if this game rolls over and dies because the company poured its last cents into a glorified legging arena to appease try-hards, yeah, I'll be disappointed. Yet another thing try-hards will have destroyed, like everything else they touch.

Edited by oldradagast, 17 April 2018 - 06:38 PM.

[Brain Cancer]

oldradagast, on 17 April 2018 - 02:50 PM, said:

Who would have predicted the problem everyone predicted would actually happen? Shocking!

Yeesh... this is the FP "let casuals and pugs play against pro teams" idiocy all over again. We warned that was a dumb idea, and it was... and then folks warned that Solaris would never work as proposed, and it's failing already.

Give it a week or so, and the Solaris queue will be as dead as the FP queue.

Except in this system, the casuals and pugs will end up shoved to the bottom of the ELO rankings and opponents, unlike QP where they're shoved into the top player games as fodder, or FP where player skill is meaningless regarding who plays who.

[Zergling]

oldradagast, on 17 April 2018 - 06:31 PM, said:

I do care about the game, yes, but not about my silly "score" in it, but continuing to have it as a venue to hang out with friends, both locally and around the world. None of us in my little unit are great at MWO, but that's not the point. We come from a mix of states and nations to get together to have fun, blow random stuff up, try out silly builds, and otherwise goof off as a group.

So, yeah - I'd hate to see what MWO is for me, a form of hang-out and a place through which I met some cool people, be destroyed by hyper-competitive types and their silly toxic beliefs just so they can be "the best!" at smashing robots together.

I don't care two cents about my ELO, rank, or whatever other meaningless yardstick is used to prove my skill at shooting pixels (I'm Tier 2 - big whoop!), but if this game rolls over and dies because the company poured its last cents into a glorified legging arena to appease try-hards, yeah, I'll be disappointed. Yet another thing try-hards will have destroyed, like everything else they touch.

MWO may be 'just a game', but there are always people that take games more seriously than others.

Humans are very diverse people, and the way they derive enjoyment from an activity varies greatly. Those that take things seriously aren't 'try-hards' or 'toxic', but simply people that get their fun factor differently.

[oldradagast]

Brain Cancer, on 17 April 2018 - 06:38 PM, said:

Except in this system, the casuals and pugs will end up shoved to the bottom of the ELO rankings and opponents, unlike QP where they're shoved into the top player games as fodder, or FP where player skill is meaningless regarding who plays who.

Which is fine by me... the question will be how long that holds up, or will they have to "widen the skill gap" for opponents when - as always - low population numbers start to affect Solaris just like they affected FP (and even QP)?

If they can keep the casuals away from the competitive players, good. But their past track record on that has been horrible. FP was all about pros stomping casuals by design, and even QP is a mess at this point. Low populations numbers create that problem, and MWO has both low population numbers AND a heavily divided player base into more queues than one can imagine. We've got how many FP queues, 1 QP queue, 14 Solaris queues, oh, the group queue in QP vs. the solo queue... come on...

We'll see what happens, but the past track record on this has not been good.

Zergling, on 17 April 2018 - 06:38 PM, said:

MWO may be 'just a game', but there are always people that take games more seriously than others.

Humans are very diverse people, and the way they derive enjoyment from an activity varies greatly. Those that take things seriously aren't 'try-hards' or 'toxic', but simply people that get their fun factor differently.

When their "Fun factor" consists of beratings others for "sucking at the game," I'll call them out as toxic, because that is what they are. People can be as competitive as they like, but when they start rubbing other people's noses in it or spouting off with the "git gud" ignorance, yeah, they are toxic. That attitude trashed FP, probably cost PGI a pile, and is still proudly on display to this day, disgustingly.

Edited by oldradagast, 17 April 2018 - 06:46 PM.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

its not a Football game of a Field ,its 2-4 Footballplayers fights in a toilet without Football ..thats whats all older Players have seeing

[Zergling]

oldradagast, on 17 April 2018 - 06:44 PM, said:

When their "Fun factor" consists of beratings others for "sucking at the game," I'll call them out as toxic, because that is what they are. People can be as competitive as they like, but when they start rubbing other people's noses in it or spouting off with the "git gud" ignorance, yeah, they are toxic. That attitude trashed FP, probably cost PGI a pile, and is still proudly on display to this day, disgustingly.

Part of PvP games anywhere is toxic players; everyone playing PvP games of any sort has to learn to deal with that.

And toxic players had nothing to do with why FP failed; it is ridiculous to even suggest that when there are so many more obvious reasons.

Edited by Zergling, 17 April 2018 - 07:00 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

When their "Fun factor" consists of beratings others for "sucking at the game," I'll call them out as toxic, because that is what they are. People can be as competitive as they like, but when they start rubbing other people's noses in it or spouting off with the "git gud" ignorance, yeah, they are toxic. That attitude trashed FP, probably cost PGI a pile, and is still proudly on display to this day, disgustingly.

exactly

thats why i wanted solaris to be 8 player free for all to focus more on being fun

1v1 just breeds a toxic atmosphere

[Zergling]

Khobai, on 17 April 2018 - 07:00 PM, said:

1v1 just breeds a toxic atmosphere

PvP games full stop breed a toxic atmosphere.

FFS, even coop games with random teams get toxic attitudes; the only way to get rid of toxic attitudes of other players it stick to single player.

Edited by Zergling, 17 April 2018 - 07:20 PM.

[Bluttrunken]

I'm sure PGI will move the mechs between Divisions if there are overperforming mechs. The mode just came out with hundreds of mechs to balance, each with their unique set of quirks. I don't think anyone would have managed a perfect job under these circumstances.

[Davegt27]

wonder how long it will take for people to say if you don't have so n so kill to death ratio you should not be dropping 1V1

[Zergling]

Davegt27, on 17 April 2018 - 07:44 PM, said:

wonder how long it will take for people to say if you don't have so n so kill to death ratio you should not be dropping 1V1

I'm waiting for the people to say their K/D is more important than their Elo.

[PocketYoda]

The Lighthouse, on 17 April 2018 - 12:46 PM, said:

It is not machinegun, it's his MRM40 and massive missile quirks.

The machine guns are just the icing on the cake..

[Dee Eight]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 17 April 2018 - 12:36 PM, said:

So, seen the same guy twice now in 1v1 div 7.

Vindi 1x

2xsmall laser. 1xMRM40, 3xHMG.


Guess how fast he chews through pretty much everything, he's ranked 3rd on the boards right now... no losses.


but you know. "mg's arn't a problem."

Its NOT the MGs...its the MRM40... on a 45 ton mech with the armor value of 80 ton mech.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Never drive as trooper a humvee in a formula one racing and wonder thats you lost.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Dee Eight, on 17 April 2018 - 08:26 PM, said:

Its NOT the MGs...its the MRM40... on a 45 ton mech with the armor value of 80 ton mech.

The MGs are a real problem too. I've taken to targeting the left arm on those Vindicators for that reason.

[Ted Theodore Logan]

Only the potato founders of MWO could be

A: Bad at an even more dedicated meta PvP mode than QP and be surprised

B: Angry about a perennial trash mech being gud at something, now matter how niche

C: Preorder a new MW game by the same dev

[Ralatar]

Umm...and given the small number of over performing mech's per division that if you haven't bought....yeah. GL with that. The placement of a number of these mech's makes me believe that the 'high' lv, experienced players that PGI asked for input on what goes where are laughing and enjoying the farming. IMHO

[Mochyn Pupur]

Well, I tried all my old variants that work very well in QP and FP, loss after loss. Threw some really horrible face planting splat builds together, and swapped over to a 80% win rate . . . . Solaris isn't about piloting skills, it's purely about Sol7 mech builds. Give the mode a few weeks, then instead of trial mechs, just put the meta mechs up on the selection screen and save everyone time and c-bills expense of rebuilding their own mechs to match Sol7 meta.

Mode durability 10/10 . . 9/10 . . 8/10 . . and dropping already . .