61 replies to this topic

[Nightbird]

A compilation of all the reasons I see.

1. Domination game mode: An entire game mode for lights with relatively short range to become sitting ducks for the other team to target practice on. Usually with no chance to shoot back. Also for no Cbills for holding circle.

2. Incursion game mode: An entire game mode for lights to become errand boys for tips. An improvement from Dom for larger mechs in that they get moving targets instead of stationary ones to shoot at.

3. Escort game mode: An entire game mode where not only are the lights' mobility and stealthiness are neutralized by radar towers. Rendering any flanking action impotent. Lightly armored lights are also expected to fight the perfect aim turrets to cap said radar towers, while being radar locked for streak SRM boats, ATM, and LRM boats without the means to know their existence or to escape easily.

4. Spotting: See a light once, and by calling out target spotted you can neutralize it's radar deprivation and magically know it's exact location for the next 10 seconds. Makes escaping, changing directions after breaking line of sight moot.

5. TTK Balance: Mediums, heavies, and assaults mechs have their offense balanced based on their TTK from the front. Direwolf, Annihilator, MC MkII can kill a mech through front CT armor at 500meters in 5 seconds? Working as intended. Lights have their offense balanced on TTK to a mech's back. Piranha can kill an Atlas standing still to it's back from 100 meters in 8 seconds? Nerf time! (Give all mechs more pitch please, leg humping shouldn't be a mechanic)

6. Solaris: Yes, on maps too small to flank on, and enemy heavies and assaults are given prior knowledge which light they are facing, and even streak mediums are available, lights with TTK balanced around shooting a mechs back can stand on equal footing against mechs that can not only kill it in 0.1 seconds, but are also given places to back into a wall and you must be within 150 meters to shoot at them.

7. While scouting enemy positions (not the game mode), with sensors that can identify which weapons a mech has equipped, was nerfed to not tell you which direction their feet is pointing. This hurts light mechs the most, as poking a mech's front is instant death.


TL:DR: Lights OP, need more nerfs

Edited by Nightbird, 05 May 2018 - 07:14 AM.

[El Bandito]

It is not a huge amount of deal if Lights are only good at certain things, and cannot stand on equal ground as heavier classes. Light mechs have their own strengths, thus attract certain pilots for playing certain types of roles. More importantly, as long as current tonnage restriction is in place in FP and GQ, Lights simply cannot become too powerful.

If you have a solution for making mech tonnage work perfectly for SQ/GQ/FP all the while buffing Lights to that of Heavy/Assault class competence, then I am all ears.

Edited by El Bandito, 18 April 2018 - 07:47 AM.

[JediPanther]

I can name far more nerfs directly or indirectly to lights but to go through the game's history and write up The Book of Light Nerfs would take me a few weeks maybe a month and half at most. I've got better things to do than write up walls of text someone could just spend five minutes google-ing.

You don't need to nerf a mech chassis directly when you can just nerf the **** out of the weapons,engines sync and equipment it use to use. Also RESCALE totally improved light weight class usage. King of Crap Lights: Spider 5V.

[Requiemking]

El Bandito, on 18 April 2018 - 07:34 AM, said:

It is not a huge amount of deal if Lights are only good at certain things, and cannot stand on equal ground as heavier classes. Light mechs have their own strengths, thus attract certain pilots for playing certain types of roles. More importantly, as long as current tonnage restriction is in place in FP and GQ, Lights simply cannot become too powerful.

If you have a solution for making mech tonnage work perfectly for SQ/GQ/FP all the while buffing Lights to that of Heavy/Assault class competence, then I am all ears.

Or you could just overhaul the rewards system to make the stuff Light normally do more worthwhile?

[ZippySpeedMonkey]

Totally disagree with point # 1. No one forced you to build your mech that way.

Don’t like it’s perfomance ? Then change it....

The biggest issue with Lights is the rescale. When my 35t Panther is the same size as many 50t-60t mechs you know something is wrong.

[Requiemking]

ZippySpeedMonkey, on 18 April 2018 - 08:53 AM, said:

Totally disagree with point # 1. No one forced you to build your mech that way.

Don’t like it’s perfomance ? Then change it....

The biggest issue with Lights is the rescale. When my 35t Panther is the same size as many 50t-60t mechs you know something is wrong.

What Lights can carry a decent long-range arsenal, while staying relatively fast and not stripping so much armor that they die in one shot?

[MischiefSC]

Take ermls and poke. That's the only successful light builds I've seen.

In the same way any poke heavy/assault gets smashed by brawling builds and low heat DPS not everything is viable in Solaris.

[El Bandito]

Requiemking, on 18 April 2018 - 08:50 AM, said:

Or you could just overhaul the rewards system to make the stuff Light normally do more worthwhile?

That idea has been kicked around since 2013 at least. Which forced PGI to expand reward types with things like Scouting, Flanking, Hit-n-Run, and First Cap, where Lights shine brightest. They could have done more, but they chose not to.

[BigBenn]

If you're getting arse-***** in a light mech you're doing it wrong. Shoot n move and dont ever stand still in battle.

[Requiemking]

El Bandito, on 18 April 2018 - 09:13 AM, said:

That idea has been kicked around since 2013 at least. Which forced PGI to expand reward types with things like Scouting, Flanking, Hit-n-Run, and First Cap, where Lights shine brightest. They could have done more, but they chose not to.

Except, none of those provide enough to be worthwhile, which means they need to do more.

[MischiefSC]

BigBenn, on 18 April 2018 - 09:16 AM, said:

If you're getting arse-***** in a light mech you're doing it wrong. Shoot n move and dont ever stand still in battle.

Ban Boreal first. Then Colluseum. All the others can be done in a light - if you're good enough.

[Nightbird]

It would be helpful to say which number you're agreeing with or objecting to. For example, 'shoot and move' if applied to domination means:

"Hey light! Get in the circle, it's ticking down!" Reply "No! If I go in I can't shoot and move!" Right? Personally I never go in the circle as a light, it's stupid to do so.

Edited by Nightbird, 18 April 2018 - 09:31 AM.

[MischiefSC]

Well, just get in it until the rest of us catch up or you come under fire.

[Nightbird]

MischiefSC, on 18 April 2018 - 09:37 AM, said:

Well, just get in it until the rest of us catch up or you come under fire.

Well, would you prefer option a) receive unnecessary free damage and hope you can escape, or option b ) avoid objective and kill solo yolo slow assault in the back?

For the three listed game modes, a smart light would choose to not do objectives.

Edited by Nightbird, 18 April 2018 - 09:45 AM.

[LordNothing]

Requiemking, on 18 April 2018 - 08:50 AM, said:

Or you could just overhaul the rewards system to make the stuff Light normally do more worthwhile?

just need to weight certain bonuses (like scouting) differently for each weight class. if lights would get paid more for doing light things then lights would do light things. right now the only thing that really pays out is killing fatmechs so thats what light pilots do.

[Grus]

Nightbird, on 18 April 2018 - 07:03 AM, said:

A compilation of all the reasons I see.

1. Domination game mode: An entire game mode for lights with relatively short range to become sitting ducks for the other team to target practice on. Usually with no chance to shoot back. Also for no Cbills for holding circle.

2. Incursion game mode: An entire game mode for lights to become errand boys for tips. An improvement from Dom for larger mechs in that they get moving targets instead of stationary ones to shoot at.

3. Escort game mode: An entire game mode where not only are the lights' mobility and stealthiness are neutralized by radar towers. Rendering any flanking action impotent. Lightly armored lights are also expected to fight the perfect aim turrets to cap said radar towers, while being radar locked for streak SRM boats, ATM, and LRM boats without the means to know their existence or to escape easily.

4. Spotting: See a light once, and by calling out target spotted you can neutralize it's radar deprivation and mahically know it's exact location for the next 10 seconds. Makes escaping, changing directions after breaking line of sight moot.

5. TTK Balance: Mediums, heavies, and assaults mechs have their offense balanced based on their TTK from the front. Direwolf, Annihilator, MC MkII can kill a mech through front CT armor at 500meters in 5 seconds? Working as intended. Lights have their offense balanced on TTK to a mech's back. Piranha can kill an Atlas standing still to it's back from 100 meters in 8 seconds? Nerf time! (Give all mechs more pitch please, leg humping shouldn't be a mechanic)

6. Solaris: Yes, on maps too small to flank on, and enemy heavies and assaults are given prior knowledge which light they are facing, and even streak mediums are available, lights with TTK balanced around shooting a mechs back can stand on equal footing against mechs that can not only kill it in 0.1 seconds, but are also given places to back into a wall and you must be within 150 meters to shoot at them.

TL:DR: Lights OP, need more nerfs

1. get to the piss stain dont stay in it when bigger mechs on your team arrive.

2. can assist the team with intell to better counter the opfor and to call in a dropship "quicker" than other mechs when said opfor wants to camp in their base.

3. Dont stand in the fire, ask team to clear turrets, dont try to cap when LRM/ATM boats dont have something bigger to shoot at.

4. people actually use radar derp? you cant counter "Target Spotted"...

5. If said assaults puts guns in their arms this wouldn't be a problem. let alone a team that can support said assault getting humped.

6. Dropped in all my matches in div2 except 2 in my 12mg PIR. im at a 1.2 w/l due to running into heayies and assaults with GUN IN THE ARMS.... if the assault / heavy was dumb enough to either not have anything low slung enough to hit me then they got into their next match faster. (KDK3 dakka for example.)


TL:DR I disagree with your points but i still love you boo!

[mistlynx4life]

PGI has a specific way they want MWO played: Lots of shooting and damage-dealing. Everything else is secondary, as supported by win conditions for almost all the modes and the way PSR is advanced. Look at the Game Page - it's a Tactical, 'Mech-based online shooter. It's why they made the turrets on HPG's walls for Incursion 'virtually' indestructible, why the payouts are structured the way they are, and so on. So if you're playing in a way that doesn't include dealing damage as the primary tactic, you are very likely going to end up frustrated at the result... unless you're just playing for fun (that definition is subjective). Lights are the go-to for capping and such, so it follows that the experience will differ from playing an ANH. There's literally another thread about how Lights are OP so it's just a matter of perspective.

[MischiefSC]

Nightbird, on 18 April 2018 - 09:44 AM, said:

Well, would you prefer option a) receive unnecessary free damage and hope you can escape, or option b ) avoid objective and kill solo yolo slow assault in the back?

For the three listed game modes, a smart light would choose to not do objectives.

Then, I'm going to be honest here, I wouldn't want you on my team. If getting to the edge of the circle first to avoid being counted down while the team catches up is too risky vs the cunning plan of hoping to be a better solo Yolo than some solo Yolo on the other team then good luck - you're about as useful to me in winning the match as the guy with the LRM Scorch - if there's enough bads on the other team we are gonna be fine.

Your KDR will probably be better though.

[Nightbird]

Grus, on 18 April 2018 - 09:54 AM, said:

1. get to the piss stain dont stay in it when bigger mechs on your team arrive.

2. can assist the team with intell to better counter the opfor and to call in a dropship "quicker" than other mechs when said opfor wants to camp in their base.

3. Dont stand in the fire, ask team to clear turrets, dont try to cap when LRM/ATM boats dont have something bigger to shoot at.

4. people actually use radar derp? you cant counter "Target Spotted"...

5. If said assaults puts guns in their arms this wouldn't be a problem. let alone a team that can support said assault getting humped.

6. Dropped in all my matches in div2 except 2 in my 12mg PIR. im at a 1.2 w/l due to running into heayies and assaults with GUN IN THE ARMS.... if the assault / heavy was dumb enough to either not have anything low slung enough to hit me then they got into their next match faster. (KDK3 dakka for example.)


TL:DR I disagree with your points but i still love you boo!

1. The opportunity cost is that the enemy larger mechs have arrived and balled up. You miss your window to score a kill while the enemy team is scattered, at least 50k cbills gone.

2. Same as one, you miss the chance to kill a slow assault before they group up at line of skirmish.

3. In other words, ignore requests to cap from those entitled larger mechs.

4. Radar derp is required if you want to run a light?

5. This is about ttk?

6. I'd rather all mechs can pitch down

I enjoy debates, not looking for pure agreement

[Nightbird]

MischiefSC, on 18 April 2018 - 10:09 AM, said:

Then, I'm going to be honest here, I wouldn't want you on my team. If getting to the edge of the circle first to avoid being counted down while the team catches up is too risky vs the cunning plan of hoping to be a better solo Yolo than some solo Yolo on the other team then good luck - you're about as useful to me in winning the match as the guy with the LRM Scorch - if there's enough bads on the other team we are gonna be fine.

Your KDR will probably be better though.

Is this the viewpoint of a dedicated heavy and assault pilot on how a light should be piloted or is this how you pilot as a light?