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What Do You Do With An Uziel?


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#21 Zergling

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 01:26 AM

View PostThe Schwartz, on 28 April 2018 - 12:39 AM, said:

Normally get 450-500 dmg games with it.


You do not appear to reach that high on average.

And honestly, twin ER Large with triple LMG is dismal firepower for a 50 tonner, especially a 50 tonner with an XL engine.
If you want to snipe with the 3P, you're better off with triple AC2 or UAC2, which can be done with a LFE.

Edited by Zergling, 28 April 2018 - 03:51 AM.


#22 Tesunie

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 07:26 AM

View PostZergling, on 28 April 2018 - 01:26 AM, said:


You do not appear to reach that high on average.


Although people do tend to boast about their match performances, I will ask where you get this information. If you say the leaderboard, that information would require that he to have played only that mech with only that configuration for it to be represented there in a meaningful way.

I will also agree that twin ERLLs and triple LMG doesn't look all that impressive for a 50 ton mech. But keep in mind we are talking about the free 3P(C) Uziel. It only has so much it can do with 2 energy, 3 ballistic and 1 missile (and the missile is on the CT which limits it to two crit slots).

My own build probably isn't much better... Triple AC2s, twin MLs... no JJs (makes me sad) and only a LFE 225. It works reasonably within Solaris, but I doubt it's effective capability within live combat. (I keep wanting to try it though.)

#23 Zergling

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 04:06 PM

View PostTesunie, on 28 April 2018 - 07:26 AM, said:

Although people do tend to boast about their match performances, I will ask where you get this information. If you say the leaderboard, that information would require that he to have played only that mech with only that configuration for it to be represented there in a meaningful way.

I will also agree that twin ERLLs and triple LMG doesn't look all that impressive for a 50 ton mech. But keep in mind we are talking about the free 3P(C) Uziel. It only has so much it can do with 2 energy, 3 ballistic and 1 missile (and the missile is on the CT which limits it to two crit slots).

My own build probably isn't much better... Triple AC2s, twin MLs... no JJs (makes me sad) and only a LFE 225. It works reasonably within Solaris, but I doubt it's effective capability within live combat. (I keep wanting to try it though.)


Well, it was a combination of looking at his leaderboard stats and the knowledge that his build isn't very good or effective. I do have a fair bit of experience at playing the Uziel myself, and I know twin ER Large just aren't gonna cut it at range; that's the kind of firepower a much more mobile Raven 3L has afterall.
I mean, I know the build is bad; it just doesn't seem likely a player with those overall stats would be able to use a build that bad for that kind of average damage over any significant number of battles.

As for your build, triple AC2 is considerably better than twin ER Large in QP battles. For QP, I'd probably drop the medium lasers for more AC2 ammo and speed. I'd also consider upgrading to UAC2s.
For Solaris I'd recommend twin UAC5 or twin LBX10, optionally with a pair of Medium or Medium Pulse Lasers.

Edited by Zergling, 28 April 2018 - 04:06 PM.


#24 Tesunie

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 08:24 PM

View PostZergling, on 28 April 2018 - 04:06 PM, said:

As for your build, triple AC2 is considerably better than twin ER Large in QP battles. For QP, I'd probably drop the medium lasers for more AC2 ammo and speed. I'd also consider upgrading to UAC2s.
For Solaris I'd recommend twin UAC5 or twin LBX10, optionally with a pair of Medium or Medium Pulse Lasers.


I wouldn't mind looking at the UAC2s, but I'm tired of my Ultras jamming at exactly the same time. It seems to have a 100% chance of my CUAC5s (if I take more than one) jamming together at the same exact time, if they are going to jam. It's rather irritating...

I did try a dual AC10 build... and didn't do well. The mech had zero skills unlocked, so I was aiming being adjusted to the velocity skills unlocked... so I missed a lot of shots. My bad completely. I did not do so well... So I have adjusted to LBx10s and two MLs. Haven't tried it out yet, seen as my other Uziel is skilled out and I do like that build (triple AC2s).

I'm going to definitely mention that, with Solaris, fully skilled mechs are probably a must... Posted Image

#25 Zergling

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Posted 29 April 2018 - 12:02 AM

View PostTesunie, on 28 April 2018 - 08:24 PM, said:


I wouldn't mind looking at the UAC2s, but I'm tired of my Ultras jamming at exactly the same time. It seems to have a 100% chance of my CUAC5s (if I take more than one) jamming together at the same exact time, if they are going to jam. It's rather irritating...

I did try a dual AC10 build... and didn't do well. The mech had zero skills unlocked, so I was aiming being adjusted to the velocity skills unlocked... so I missed a lot of shots. My bad completely. I did not do so well... So I have adjusted to LBx10s and two MLs. Haven't tried it out yet, seen as my other Uziel is skilled out and I do like that build (triple AC2s).

I'm going to definitely mention that, with Solaris, fully skilled mechs are probably a must... Posted Image


The 3P has -20% UAC jam chance, so UACs should be jamming a fair bit less than on other mechs.

And yeah, I prefer to only use fully skilled mechs in Solaris. The XP gains seem terrible so it's not a good place to level a mech up.

#26 Throe

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Posted 29 April 2018 - 12:10 AM

I haven't skilled mine at all yet, but I did ok with my first match on Quick Play with it:

Uziel 3P(C); 2xRAC/5, LE225

You could probably drop some ammo and add a backup laser for extra burst, and then fill in the armor on the arms and legs too; for Solaris. Something like:
UZL-3P(C); 2xRAC/5, 2xML, LE225

Edited by Throe, 29 April 2018 - 12:16 AM.


#27 The Schwartz

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Posted 01 May 2018 - 06:38 AM

Guess you forgot about the crit chance boost or the range boost. Anyways, go on Capt passive aggressive. Problem with Uac/2's double tap, find cover. You can't tell me you're going to drop consistant damage like the ERLL is going to... wait i know what it is, you don't use JJ's... moving on... Also, you can stick with an assualt like you would any other medium and get that secondary fire damage. Is it as effective as other mechs? no. Is it something to do with it, yes. I feel bad if i can't pull 4-500 damage in a twin ERLL Urbiemech, pretty much the same thing with longer range and m-guns.. really good energy hardpoints. But, yes... I'm new.

#28 Zergling

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Posted 01 May 2018 - 06:49 AM

View PostThe Schwartz, on 01 May 2018 - 06:38 AM, said:

Guess you forgot about the crit chance boost or the range boost. Anyways, go on Capt passive aggressive. Problem with Uac/2's double tap, find cover. You can't tell me you're going to drop consistant damage like the ERLL is going to... wait i know what it is, you don't use JJ's... moving on... Also, you can stick with an assualt like you would any other medium and get that secondary fire damage. Is it as effective as other mechs? no. Is it something to do with it, yes. I feel bad if i can't pull 4-500 damage in a twin ERLL Urbiemech, pretty much the same thing with longer range and m-guns.. really good energy hardpoints. But, yes... I'm new.


You are only averaging around 200 match score. That equates to about 300 damage/battle, 350 at best.

Your build is bad, get over it.

#29 Tesunie

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Posted 01 May 2018 - 07:17 AM

View PostZergling, on 01 May 2018 - 06:49 AM, said:


You are only averaging around 200 match score. That equates to about 300 damage/battle, 350 at best.

Your build is bad, get over it.


You are taking his grand averages again, rather than his claims about the one specific mech he says he is getting good results in. He may very well be getting reasonable results more reliably in his Uziel, unlike some other mechs he may run. Just to point it out.


View PostThe Schwartz, on 01 May 2018 - 06:38 AM, said:

But, yes... I'm new.


I would be interested in seeing you back your claims though. Go to your web profile and see your individual mech performance. If you've had that build on the mech for a long time, it can tell you what you are actually doing for average damages. Take your total damage score and divide by number of matches played. I am wondering what it might be, because I know it's easier to remember better stats than we do the lower ones. (Of course, a single DC can really throw stats for a loop.)

As far as you being new... it says your account was created in 2012. Did you just take a really long break and is recently returned, thus it feels like a new game? Or did you log onto the forums in 2012, but couldn't play until recently? (Seriously wondering is all.)

#30 Metus regem

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Posted 01 May 2018 - 07:41 AM

Use them for target practice?

They are like clay pigeons when they are being pop-tarts...

#31 Squiggy McPew

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Posted 01 May 2018 - 08:25 AM

Eh. Settled on two rac2 and two med lasers and its okish. At best its a support mech but can snipe or poptart er las/ppc if you want to be inefficient.

#32 The Schwartz

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 01:54 PM

Take into consideration that about 15 of these games were figuring out builds and had stuipdly low scores but current (and going up) average over 66 games going 21289 avg 322.56 per match. Anyways... will update just to be petty at this point.

#33 Tesunie

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 05:01 PM

View PostThe Schwartz, on 02 May 2018 - 01:54 PM, said:

Take into consideration that about 15 of these games were figuring out builds and had stuipdly low scores but current (and going up) average over 66 games going 21289 avg 322.56 per match. Anyways... will update just to be petty at this point.


Seems legit and respectable damage to me.

Personally, my opinion is, if you are having fun the rest just doesn't matter all that much.

#34 The Schwartz

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Posted 02 May 2018 - 06:47 PM

Meh I just get mad that people blame other people or their equipment for being bad pilots. Then try to come off as an "elitist." Yawn...

Edited by The Schwartz, 02 May 2018 - 06:48 PM.


#35 The 4th Amigo

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 10:19 AM

What do you do with an Uziel? Die. A lot. "Free mech" they said. Yeah, take an unskilled mech into Solaris and see how that works out. Oh, you don't have any other acceptable mechs in that tier? I guess you need to buy one and skill that one up as well.

The Uziel can't get enough punch to do any significant damage. Pumping UAC/10 into a legged assault in the back got me a whopping 30 damage and he didn't die. Solaris won't be an option for many players with this as the starter mech. I was paired against a Yen Lo Wang in my first match and died in less than 4 minutes. I did 28 damage and ran around like a headless chicken to try and avoid his fire. The Uziel is worthless.

#36 Tesunie

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 04:14 PM

View PostThe 4th Amigo, on 04 May 2018 - 10:19 AM, said:

What do you do with an Uziel? Die. A lot. "Free mech" they said. Yeah, take an unskilled mech into Solaris and see how that works out. Oh, you don't have any other acceptable mechs in that tier? I guess you need to buy one and skill that one up as well.

The Uziel can't get enough punch to do any significant damage. Pumping UAC/10 into a legged assault in the back got me a whopping 30 damage and he didn't die. Solaris won't be an option for many players with this as the starter mech. I was paired against a Yen Lo Wang in my first match and died in less than 4 minutes. I did 28 damage and ran around like a headless chicken to try and avoid his fire. The Uziel is worthless.


A. How about saying "Thanks for the free mech, PGI". Even if you sell it (I do believe you can), it's a free mech bay. If you can't sell it (because it's a special mech), then let it just sit there.

B. Solaris isn't the place to try and level a mech out. Do that in QP. If you want to have the competitive edge, you need to leverage everything you can. Also, nothing says you HAVE to play in D7... That would be your choice.

C. Talk for yourself. I've had reasonable luck within my Uziel. Triple AC2s and a pair of MLs seems to hold up fine in Solaris. In QP modes, I've done reasonable with my other Uziels, though it did take some time to figure out what worked for me. Just because the free one doesn't work out for your doesn't mean it's a bad mech. (Though, the free variant is arguably the hardest to use out of the bunch, I wont deny that. There is a reason it's in D7.)

D. You expected to drop an assault with only 30 damage to the back? That's probably not even half it's structure health... Let alone any back armor equipped (which is typically between 5-10).

The scariest thing a Yen-lo-wang has is it's AC20. It does hurt. But, even if you stared down your target and shot, you should have been able to deal more than 28 points of damage to them, of course depending upon the build you have.A Wang has an alpha of 30 damage (AC20 and two MLs). Your mech has plenty of armor to take some of those hits. Sometimes, you need to move and dodge. Other times you need to stand your ground, know you are going to get hurt, and try to hurt them back. It's tough knowing when it's time to dodge, and when it's time to stand your ground. (FYI: I know it isn't smart to stare at your opponent.)



So, after all that, I'm going to just ask you, what build are you running on that? Without knowing that, I can't help provide any farther advice. I can post some possible builds for you though. (Or, you can also always shelf the mech and ignore it's existence. That is your choice. Not all mechs are for you.)

Triple AC2s with two MLs seems to work well for sustained DPS. Start the match by getting up high and use your range (mine has 4 tons of reloads, so I can waste some if needed), then determine what your opponent has. They have only close range, try to maintain that range. Mid range, use cover and close in for your maximum effect. Warning, it's going to need a rather small LFE, I think mine has a 225-200?

On the other hand, another good build to consider is dual LBx10s and two MLs. A bit more alpha punch, meaning shoot and twist. Shoot and twist. Once again, need to give up some of that speed. For Solaris, you shouldn't need that speed all that much.

I've heard of RAC builds, but those never seemed to work for me... But it's something else to consider.


Edit: Small changes.

Edited by Tesunie, 04 May 2018 - 04:15 PM.


#37 The 4th Amigo

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 04:52 PM

I can appreciate what PGI is trying to do but free mechs are only good if they are useable. I'm not aware of a way to automagically advance tiers in Solaris without winning and the Uziel is the only Solaris-approved mech I have. So it is a little frustrating when I get so viciously destroyed the first go around having done so little damage considering this free mech was supposed to be the gateway drug to Solaris.

I did not expect to drop an assault with 30 damage, but if I hit his back time after time with a UAC 10 I expect to get more than 30 damage.

The fight against the Yen Lo Wang was with the default PPC /LBX build. I've tried UAC-10/2xML/SRM 4, two LPL/3 HMG and UAC-5/ 2xMPL/MRM10. There simply isn't enough alpha possible and with the fast fighting in Solaris you can't go toe to toe with other mechs and expect to be able to survive, nevermind quick play. Two or three hits and you are done.

If you are winning matches with an Uziel that's great but I don't have 3 months to level it up in order to play Solaris matches.

#38 Tesunie

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 05:19 PM

View PostThe 4th Amigo, on 04 May 2018 - 04:52 PM, said:

I can appreciate what PGI is trying to do but free mechs are only good if they are useable. I'm not aware of a way to automagically advance tiers in Solaris without winning and the Uziel is the only Solaris-approved mech I have. So it is a little frustrating when I get so viciously destroyed the first go around having done so little damage considering this free mech was supposed to be the gateway drug to Solaris.


I think you don't understand something about Solaris, which is probably a large bulk of your frustration. The biggest part is, all mechs are usable in Solaris game modes. The mech you choose determines the division you fight in, with D7 being considered "the weakest mechs" available.

For Solaris, I would recommend accepting contracts for all the divisions. Once you have done so, you can then click "select mech" from the bottom of the Solaris home screen per division. You should see the mechs you own, if there are any in that division that you own. For example, if you own a Huntsmen, they can all basically be found in the D1 division. However, if you do select a Huntsmen, you will be fighting against other D1 qualified mechs, such as the Annihilator.

So, you are not limited to only that Uziel until you "unlock" additional mechs/divisions. You can play in any division, and even if you don't own a mech for that division, you can always use the (not recommended) trial mechs... (If you already knew this, I'm just trying to make sure. No insult intended.)


To be frank... the Uziel Solaris trial mech has what I consider to be a poor build. It isn't bad if you can use it right, but for Solaris, it's just going to be out classed most of the time. AC2s get you that DPS, so even if you lose you probably will have done reasonable damage to the enemy. If you have the C-bills, I recommend reconfiguring it and trying the AC2 build out. The rapid fire of the AC2s just sends lead down range, and it can be a lot of damage. For QP, it's probably one of the worst mechs avalible... Which is why it's in D7 for Solaris... (There are better Uziels out there.)

By the way, sorry if I got a little snappy at first. I can't say how frustrating it is about the number of times I've seen people "yell" at PGI for "free" stuff over the years...

Your perspective made more sense, if I understood it correctly.

#39 Zergling

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 08:58 PM

View PostThe Schwartz, on 02 May 2018 - 01:54 PM, said:

Take into consideration that about 15 of these games were figuring out builds and had stuipdly low scores but current (and going up) average over 66 games going 21289 avg 322.56 per match. Anyways... will update just to be petty at this point.


That's bad.

'Ok' would be 400+ damage.
'Good' would be 500+ damage.

Aside from that, build effectiveness shouldn't be considered by just damage, but Wins/Losses, Kills/Deaths and Kills/Battle ratios too.


I freely admit I did absolute **** in my Uziel 2S with 50 battles played; 0.61 W/L, 1.06 K/D, 0.76 K/B, 309 damage/battle.
I can blame some of those low stats on bad luck with teams, but not all of it; I was playing terribly, largely because I couldn't work out any effective build, not even triple ER Large was working well.

Compare those stats to what I did in the Nova Breaker in 34 battles: 1.43 W/L, 2.67 K/D, 1.65 K/B, 473 damage/battle.
Or Hunchback IIC-B in 17 battles: 1.43 W/L, 1.64 K/D, 1.06 K/B, 461 damage/battle.
Or Blackjack BJ-2 in 36 battles: 1.57 W/L, 1.77 K/D, 1.08 K/B, 432 damage/battle.
And Crab 27B in 37 battles: 1.85 W/L, 2.93 K/D, 1.19 K/B, 441 damage/battle.

Sure, that's cherry picking comparison to good mechs, but that's the point; those stats demonstrate the difference between playing mechs with bad builds, and playing mechs with better builds.



View PostThe Schwartz, on 02 May 2018 - 06:47 PM, said:

Meh I just get mad that people blame other people or their equipment for being bad pilots. Then try to come off as an "elitist." Yawn...


And I get mad when people claim bad builds are anything other than bad.

I'm not saying you're a bad player at the game, I'm saying your build is bad, and that you'd do better with other builds or mechs.

If you want to snipe with ER Large Lasers, then Uziels with 3 energy hardpoints for triple ER Large would do better.
If you want to snipe with the 3P, then triple AC2 or UAC2 would do better.

And generally, you're better off with a non-Uziel mech, 'cause the Uziel sucks.

If you really want to be a mobile medium sniper, I recommend the Crab 27B with triple ER Large; my stats above are from running that with an XL engine. The structure quirks and profile results in a durable mech that can actually safely run an XL if you can effectively spread damage.

Edited by Zergling, 04 May 2018 - 09:27 PM.


#40 Tesunie

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 09:52 PM

[redacted] Matches where you deal 300 effective damage (this considers weapon spread and trying to land damage on vital components, be it legs, CT, or even weaponized arms) is rather good. [redacted]

[redacted]

W/L can show your average impact on your matches, but then again even that can be flawed. Just tonight alone I had a match where much of my team kept (seemingly on purpose) ran in front of each other's weapons, and those that weren't doing that were hiding on a ridge effectively out of the battle (and not helping in a match of Domination). In another match, I heard someone mentioning "please, lets not shoot each other in the back this match. Last match I was in, we had a lot of people Tking each other for no reason". Even a single DC can impact this ratio.

In the end, damage is more of an attribute you more or less do have direct control over. Concentrate on dealing effective damage, try to work with your team, and see where the dice roll. Sometimes, you just have to work with the hand you are dealt.


As for his Uziel suggestion... The 3P can't have triple ERLLs, and for QP a dual ERLL [redacted], may end up being a reasonable choice. I would recommend to save the build somewhere (so you never lose it) if you really do like it, but not be afraid to try other builds on the mech. You may find something else you like better given enough experimentation and time. (Recently, I just changed my Marauder from 2 ERMLs, 2 LLs and an AC10 which I liked and did work well, to a reintroduction to Gauss for me Dual L. Gauss and four ERMLs. Kinda liking the new build. Hence, don't be afraid to experiment.)


As for mech stats, I just realized that Solaris scores are mixed into your individual mech stats... This is gonna play HAVOC with any kind of statistical analysis. I say this in regards to K/D and Damage per match... Each of which will probably plummet for any mech used there. It's harder to deal higher amounts of damage (as there is less to damage), and it's "you win if you kill" there... Otherwise, I'd be tempted to add my Uziel stats just for a broader showing of what the chassis might be capable of.

The Uziel is not an overly easy chassis to work with. It's odd hardpoint selections coupled with a low quirk setting (not sure why) make it difficult to work around. The 3P is especially difficult. Three ballistic hard points, and honestly not really the weight to utilize it well... Add on top of that not enough energy hard points to play a good back-up role and a single missile hard point limited to two crit slots... and it's just a mess to work with.





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