60 replies to this topic

[sycocys]

Competitive players don't want to play against the casual potatoes.

Casual potatoes don't want to play against the competitive players.

Seems like they both have the same scenario in mind and there should be a pretty simple solution to be found there that allows everyone to play the game modes.

[Yondu Udonta]

I managed to top Div 1 on Friday and alongside having some great duels with good pilots I also faced potatoes with sub 1500 SSR/sub 1 WLR. And upon defeating a potato I gained 1/2 SSR only. So I do not understand why the potatoes are complaining. Yes it was an unfair fight based on skill levels, but you lost so little SSR and in return you learned so much more such as knowing which maps to ban for your mech build and what the metamech + build is in the division, allowing you to adapt as accordingly. If after getting beaten down you still come crying on forums about being rolled over, you probably didn't bother trying to adapt.

Edited by Yondu the Ravager, 21 April 2018 - 08:17 AM.

[Khalcruth]

It takes a special type of...person...to believe that the masses will be lining up to give thanks for being mercilessly beaten.

[Ghogiel]

Dogstar, on 21 April 2018 - 03:24 AM, said:

Do you not realize that by 'farming potatoes' you're actually destroying the game mode?

Of course. I and many other people are going to try our best to farm the potatoes Just like I did with FP when we took 12mans and farmed skittles right out of the mode if not the game entirely.

[Yondu Udonta]

Khalcruth, on 21 April 2018 - 08:34 AM, said:

It takes a special type of person to believe that there are people out there who believe that the masses will be lining up to give thanks for being mercilessly beaten.

FTFY

[MischiefSC]

Darian DelFord, on 21 April 2018 - 07:54 AM, said:

I did I now run commando in the open field :>




The problem is when mechs do nothing but put their back against the wall and wait. I am sorry but that is not fun to deal with every damn match.

Run peeps and poptart. Solaris has limits on every weight class for what works. Backstabbing lights in 1 v 1 isn't going to work we'll because it is v1 v 1.

[Koniving]

Dogstar, on 21 April 2018 - 03:24 AM, said:

Do you not realize that by 'farming potatoes' you're actually destroying the game mode? Because those players aren't going to have a good impression if they get wrecked in moments and continually face opponents miles better than them! Plus you're not gaining anything so it's practically griefing.

Perfect example of an e-peen obsessed competitive player

You have a good point, unfortunately as the opposition also correctly stated: It isn't their fault that the matchmaker puts them together. They could deliberately play badly but that isn't fair to them, either. Now in the one versus one environment, I can see situations similar to 2012 where you see people so bad that you just wanna play with them first... Give a little dance before killing them, or something else to give them a chance.

At one point I rolled down my window and asked the other guy if he had any grey poupon and when he shot, I gave the killing blow.

But.. Its up to the developers to put some effort into the game. The Epeen craze is terrible, trust me I know. But the match maker puts them together. And so long as PGI allows tier 4 and tier 1 to mix and Solaris to be the way it is... the farming shall continue, regardless of whether the Epeen crowd actually intends to farm potatoes for the glorious stat flashing or just reaps what PGI has sown.

If PGI can't be bothered to fix their ****, then its on PGI, not Farmer Stat Muncher.

[MischiefSC]

sycocys, on 21 April 2018 - 08:13 AM, said:

Competitive players don't want to play against the casual potatoes.

Casual potatoes don't want to play against the competitive players.

Seems like they both have the same scenario in mind and there should be a pretty simple solution to be found there that allows everyone to play the game modes.

Except true comp players are a fraction of a percent of the population.

99.98% Of players are on a scale of casual.

The problem is that "bad" casuals often want to just be bad, not i.prove but win anyway.

That has no fix.

[sharknoise]

El Bandito, on 21 April 2018 - 05:57 AM, said:

Good. Perhaps then these potatoes would realize that Solaris not meant for them. One actually needs some skill to play a ranked mode--just look at all other games, such as LoL, and Overwatch. Good players don't want scrubs in Solaris either, cause the amount of Elo earned by defeating them is pitiful.

Bottom line is: Git gud first, then play Solaris. Unlike FP, there are no units to carry the scrubs' sorry asses.

Good players might not recieve an Elo boost, but they still need bad players in an indirect way. More players satisfied with new content => more money for PGI, better incentive to continue developing MWO. Even if we assume that the game is mostly supported by highly skilled players' money, it's still better to have even more money from satisfied potatoes. There's no need to scare casuals away from Solaris, just monitor the matchmaker performance and make sure that there's enough people in queues for Elo to work. But as we see, the queues are already drying up. So I believe PGI will have to lower the number of divisions sooner or later.

Edited by sharknoise, 21 April 2018 - 10:09 AM.

[Gwei Loong]

El Bandito, on 21 April 2018 - 05:57 AM, said:

Good. Perhaps then these potatoes would realize that Solaris not meant for them. One actually needs some skill to play a ranked mode--just look at all other games, such as LoL, and Overwatch. Good players don't want scrubs in Solaris either, cause the amount of Elo earned by defeating them is pitiful.

Bottom line is: Git gud first, then play Solaris. Unlike FP, there are no units to carry the scrubs' sorry asses.

Is this PGI's official stance? "Don't want scrubs in Solaris". Cause I'd like to hear a Devs point of view on that and by the way hows that comp mode that they had when I quite playing? The team one with the empty que's?

Honestly If I am going to sit around all day playing this I don't care what match's I get but the Mech balance in Division's are kind of an issue. You can chose to run a mech you like rather then a division fave but you are shooting yourself in the foot before you drop sometimes.

"Unlike FP, there are no units to carry the scrubs' sorry asses" really it's 1v1. I almost forget all about FP sense well season 3 ended. Is that like a thing still because if it is I think PGI should nerf it again.

OP makes a point and I'd suggest that the higher up the ranks you go the closer your elo should be. So those of us just playing for fun can have that and get games without having to wait but if you got a elo of 2000 or more then lets say MM places you within 200 points. It's pretty clear to me that anyone that would say "bottom line is: Git gud first, then play Solaris" shouldn't mind waiting however long it takes to find a match. If that ends up being 10 or 15 mins... I don't want that but sounds like it'd be good for you.

Edited by Gwei Loong, 21 April 2018 - 10:12 AM.

[MischiefSC]

A fraction of a percent of players will get to 2k Elo.

Saying they don't get to play so people at 1500 Elo don't have to play against them 1 match in 100 is silly. You wouldn't even lose points for losing to them.

Take it the other way - bad players who sink to 1200 Elo. If there's 100 players in the 1600-1700 on, he will get matches against them rather than be told to go **** himself for being such low Elo.

No, you get matches. As close to your own Elo as possible but if population is sparse at the moment it'll go wide to find a match. That impacts everyone. Including the rare fringe cases on both ends.

[Ghogiel]

Gwei Loong, on 21 April 2018 - 10:10 AM, said:

Is this PGI's official stance? "Don't want scrubs in Solaris". "bottom line is: Git gud first, then play Solaris"

It's their official stance on FP, and solaris actually has a MMer so there isn't really anything players can do if they don't like it being really unbalanced besides not play or git gud.

[Asym]

El Bandito, on 21 April 2018 - 05:57 AM, said:

Sooner or later I gotta beat them all so all challengers are welcome!




Good. Perhaps then these potatoes would realize that Solaris not meant for them. One actually needs some skill to play a ranked mode--just look at all other games, such as LoL, and Overwatch. Good players don't want scrubs in Solaris either, cause the amount of Elo earned by defeating them is pitiful.

Bottom line is: Git gud first, then play Solaris. Unlike FP, there are no units to carry the scrubs' sorry asses.

Oh good grief.... S7 isn't meant for them. FP isn't meant for them. QP isn't meant for them..... MWO isn't meant for them either.......and, we wonder why population is so low? Geeze....

We need to be better than this ! Or, at some point, there will be nothing left....

[El Bandito]

Gwei Loong, on 21 April 2018 - 10:10 AM, said:

Is this PGI's official stance? "Don't want scrubs in Solaris". Cause I'd like to hear a Devs point of view on that and by the way hows that comp mode that they had when I quite playing?

If you look at the forums, it is mostly the mediocre players that are badmouthing Solaris, saying **** like how they don't find it fun cause they are losing a lot. Well no **** Shirlock, the game mode itself is by nature competitive, so those players should either skill up, or shut up.

Gwei Loong, on 21 April 2018 - 10:10 AM, said:

It's pretty clear to me that anyone that would say "bottom line is: Git gud first, then play Solaris" shouldn't mind waiting however long it takes to find a match. If that ends up being 10 or 15 mins... I don't want that but sounds like it'd be good for you.

I don't mind playing the same opponent again and again, as long as that pilot is challenging to face.

Asym, on 21 April 2018 - 10:58 AM, said:

Oh good grief.... S7 isn't meant for them. FP isn't meant for them. QP isn't meant for them..... MWO isn't meant for them either.......and, we wonder why population is so low? Geeze....

We need to be better than this ! Or, at some point, there will be nothing left....

Stop your hyperbole. I never said anything about QP. Common sense dictates that if the game mode is clearly a shark tank, then you shouldn't jump in without preparation. Which is why I never touched FP, until my WLR became much better than 1:1 ratio in 2015, cause otherwise I would simply be a dead weight to others I group with. Most pugs don't even know how to torso twist; they wouldn't survive a minute in Solaris--and then they will start bitching about their non-fun experience.

sharknoise, on 21 April 2018 - 10:07 AM, said:

Good players might not recieve an Elo boost, but they still need bad players in an indirect way. More players satisfied with new content => more money for PGI, better incentive to continue developing MWO. Even if we assume that the game is mostly supported by highly skilled players' money, it's still better to have even more money from satisfied potatoes. There's no need to scare casuals away from Solaris, just monitor the matchmaker performance and make sure that there's enough people in queues for Elo to work. But as we see, the queues are already drying up. So I believe PGI will have to lower the number of divisions sooner or later.

PGI will have to do more work on divisions, no question about that, but mostly on reshuffling mechs. Anyone with a brain knew months ago, that Solaris was gonna turn out to be highly competitive meta hill. Anyone who thought otherwise is naive at best. There is no hand holding for this mode.

Edited by El Bandito, 21 April 2018 - 11:08 AM.

[InvictusLee]

Sixpack, on 21 April 2018 - 03:36 AM, said:

Just allow a 3x to 4x reward multiplier for the low elo person in this case.

This! This needs to happen!!

[KodiakGW]

EnochsBook, on 21 April 2018 - 03:48 AM, said:

Also, no one is farming potatoes intentionally in Solaris, the MM just picks the best match-ups it can.

Correct. I mean the alternative for us solo players is to deal with the other matchmaker. Which pits people who have played lots of games and filled out their XP bar, but still don’t play exceptionally well, with/against people who are at the top of their game but considered the same rank.

I’d rather face a battle against someone with an Elo 300 higher than me, than participate in another stomp, or getting stomped unless I take my top meta mech and do 4-6 KMDD.

[Asym]

El Bandito, on 21 April 2018 - 10:59 AM, said:

If you look at the forums, it is mostly the mediocre players that are badmouthing Solaris, saying **** like how they don't find it fun cause they are losing a lot. Well no **** Shirlock, the game mode itself is by nature competitive, so those players should either skill up, or shut up.




I don't mind playing the same opponent again and again, as long as that pilot is challenging to face.




Stop your hyperbole. I never said anything about QP. Common sense dictates that if the game mode is clearly a shark tank, then you shouldn't jump in without preparation. Which is why I never touched FP, until my WLR became much better than 1:1 ratio in 2015, cause otherwise I would simply be a dead weight to others I group with. Most pugs don't even know how to torso twist; they wouldn't survive a minute in Solaris--and then they will start bitching about their non-fun experience.




PGI will have to do more work on divisions, no question about that, but mostly on reshuffling mechs. Anyone with a brain knew months ago, that Solaris was gonna turn out to be highly competitive meta hill. Anyone who thought otherwise is naive at best. There is no hand holding for this mode.

True ! You did not say anything in this post about QP !! But, you really are insistent that everyone is making a mess because we aren't as "GuD" as you would want......

I'll disagree with you on this topic: at some point, there won't be anyone left because MWO has forgotten that "fun" is the reason we play and competition and fun are not always an inclusive arrangement... Yes, S7 has a built as an individual competition system but, it is also a very closed system because it is 1x1/2x2 and, because of that, I suspect a larger number of pilots will just get "bored"..... Pilots got frustrated with FP and went to QP, then got bored and moved on to S7.... they'll go back to QP and then, QP will end up like FP......not a good place for "everyone else".....

My point is that "everyone else" needs a place to play MWO and have fun... As you said, S7 is competitive and as you have said many times before, Faction Play is meant to be competition between teams..... Well, if the "team" mode is competitive and the individual mode is competitive.............that leaves QP for everyone else.....it can't be allowed to be competitive or there will be another migration out of MWO... Heck, I only am playing events cause I just can't stand the arms race and negative waves..... JMO and no harm meant !!! You've always have been helpful.

[SteelMantis]

Personally I think there should be some limit on match making. It's very possible that Solaris could lose enough "bad" players over the next couple months that the people still playing aren't going to be able to decide which division to play and instead are going to have to play which ever division has people in it.

It would be better to have a 2000 elo player wait ten minutes or go play another division than have the mod die.

[PocketYoda]

Its a pointless waste of code.

[sycocys]

SteelMantis, on 21 April 2018 - 04:17 PM, said:

Personally I think there should be some limit on match making. It's very possible that Solaris could lose enough "bad" players over the next couple months

I'm not too sure that it's going to take more than a couple weeks for the casuals to abandon the mode in large numbers unless PGI just pounds it with event after event to try to keep the numbers up.

Between the low rewards (caused by load times) and the troll players telling them to gtfo when they try to voice their concerns and problems with the mode - this is just going to end up being FP v2.0.