Jump to content

Pgi Needs To Prevent Solaris Stalling


14 replies to this topic

#1 DeathStalker13

    Member

  • PipPipPip
  • 75 posts

Posted 21 April 2018 - 09:15 AM

There is a tendency for long range mechs to hold at their spawn site and get free shots on the opponent as it makes their way across the map. I've seen games where some people would rather let the clock run down, while being totally inactive, rather than give up their advantage on their perch. There needs to be a few things that helps prevents this from happening.
1, Penalty for remaining within a certain distance of the initial spawn. Similar to the damage that lava causes after sustain contact.
2. Penalty for backing up against the boundaries of the arena. Similar to the damage that lava causes after sustain contact. This should only apply to the outer barriers. If a pilot wants to utilize the strategy of protecting his back he should do so with the generated walls and surfaces within in the arena not on it's boundaries.
3. More ways for mechs to approach the opposite end of the arena with partial cover. This maybe with added barriers or obstacles to dart from, tunnels, more paths to the opposite spawn.

Ultimately, along with these suggestions, PGI probably needs to implement larger maps to encourage more creative strategies for that can accommodate both short and long range playing styles.

Also... just because a mech is a lowered tier in a 12vs12 match doesn't mean it's a lower tier mech in a 1 vs 1 match. Many of these mechs are OP for their division and dominate the others.
Thanks for listening PGI!

#2 Grayson Dillinger

    Member

  • PipPipPip
  • 53 posts
  • LocationKansas, USA

Posted 21 April 2018 - 10:00 AM

You have a vote ability. Vote out the long range maps...
r

#3 The Basilisk

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,060 posts
  • LocationFrankfurt a.M.

Posted 21 April 2018 - 10:03 AM

Uhm...no

#4 Nesutizale

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Altruist
  • The Altruist
  • 1,588 posts

Posted 21 April 2018 - 10:45 AM

Most maps are build that you can either approch a standing mech without beeing shot at or get very little fire. So the problem is more that you don't go in a straight line.
Also the arenas are so small that you can mostly fire back at them, even if you just have some medium lasers. Sure its not the optimal range but as soon as you get close its them haveing a hard time. So don't go in a straight line, twist, use cover and them trash them at close range. Most likely you will have more firepower then they have.

Only problem that I have with ranged combat is when my mech is on the slow side and they can keep their distance. But then when the pilot is good enough to constantly run backwards without bumping into something and stopping for you to close in, then they are good pilots and deserve the win.

#5 Naqser

    Member

  • PipPipPip
  • The Deadly
  • The Deadly
  • 60 posts

Posted 21 April 2018 - 09:37 PM

The only thing I agree with here is some "penalty" for wall hugging.
Though I think an incentive to move would work better than being forced to move.

For instance, at the three minute mark, a domination-esque area could appear on the map in which you gether time.
Having the most time at the end of the match of both mechs are alive, or all four, would grant you the win.
Or some control points like conquest with really short capture times.
However, as an incentive to win by kills, winning by domination wouldn't grant you as much c-bills, xp and Acc as normal payouts.

Edited by Naqser, 21 April 2018 - 09:43 PM.


#6 Nesutizale

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Altruist
  • The Altruist
  • 1,588 posts

Posted 22 April 2018 - 01:00 AM

If you want to do a "Domination" like circle then make it nearly arena size so lights and mediums get a chance to get behind you but don't invalidate long range builds. Its part of beeing a skilled player to use the cover given to find a way to your target.

#7 Naqser

    Member

  • PipPipPip
  • The Deadly
  • The Deadly
  • 60 posts

Posted 22 April 2018 - 04:30 AM

View PostNesutizale, on 22 April 2018 - 01:00 AM, said:

If you want to do a "Domination" like circle then make it nearly arena size so lights and mediums get a chance to get behind you but don't invalidate long range builds. Its part of beeing a skilled player to use the cover given to find a way to your target.


Of course.
I don't have an issue with players utilising maps to their advantage.
However there's a difference between the map forcing both parties to work with the map and one tank standing still in one spot to hide their weak side.


#8 Nesutizale

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Altruist
  • The Altruist
  • 1,588 posts

Posted 22 April 2018 - 04:58 AM

On that I can agree.

#9 Kurbeks

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Shredder
  • Shredder
  • 334 posts

Posted 22 April 2018 - 01:29 PM

Totally agree with this as this is very common in 3 higher tiers. And problem is that much bigger mechs camps, so you either die or just wait 10 mins. Also only easy approaches are in caves and Jungle. So example would be Orion against Kcrab in Div3, Orion is not fast enough to get close enough fast on camping Kcrab thus easy win for camper. Or even worse option would be crow.

Problem comes from poorly made up divs so putting all Kcrabs, KDK, clan maraduers, supernovas, anihilators in same div would allow them to camp out with each other. or like suggested some dominaton part of map, thus making camping lose match. Third would reporting for AFK getting campers banned. Posted Image

I have no problem with long raneg weaponry, but camping should be dealt with unless devs want for this game mode to die off fast death.

Edited by Kurbeks, 22 April 2018 - 01:30 PM.


#10 Rick T Dangerous

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • 350 posts
  • LocationExactly above Earth's center

Posted 22 April 2018 - 03:44 PM

View PostNaqser, on 21 April 2018 - 09:37 PM, said:

The only thing I agree with here is some "penalty" for wall hugging.
Though I think an incentive to move would work better than being forced to move.

For instance, at the three minute mark, a domination-esque area could appear on the map in which you gether time.
Having the most time at the end of the match of both mechs are alive, or all four, would grant you the win.
Or some control points like conquest with really short capture times.
However, as an incentive to win by kills, winning by domination wouldn't grant you as much c-bills, xp and Acc as normal payouts.


That's a great idea. Alternative idea: at the three minute mark the weapon systems on both (respectively: all four) mechs de-activate, to re-activate them they have to move across the map into the opponents spawn location. Or this happens when none of the mechs hits the opponents mechs for three minutes.

#11 Yondu Udonta

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Pirate
  • The Pirate
  • 533 posts

Posted 22 April 2018 - 10:33 PM

Do it like Overwatch (yes, Overwatch does have workarounds with regards to camping). Set a capture point at around the 3min mark in the centre of the map away from cover. Capping the point successfully gives the player the win. Prevents assaults from camping. Also prevents lights from taking their time running around and kiting since 7mins should be more than enough time to kill a mech.

#12 Helsbane

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Determined
  • The Determined
  • 1,090 posts
  • LocationThe frozen hell that is Wisconsin.

Posted 22 April 2018 - 10:43 PM

Okay, for the last 5+ years, we've all been telling folks that the way to defend against lights if to use terrain to protect your back, and now people are asking for a penalty to be implemented to stop pilots from doing exactly what we've told them all this time?!? Really?!? Anyone else see the flaw in this equation? Call me crazy, but maybe the answer is to move the lights to a different division instead of trying to stop people from playing smart when faced with a more agile light mech that desperately wants to get at their rear.

#13 Nesutizale

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Altruist
  • The Altruist
  • 1,588 posts

Posted 23 April 2018 - 12:02 AM

The light-assault problem comes from bad divisions, the other problem is and I encountered it recently too, is that people just stand at the starting point, risking a tie because they either think they have the range advantage so they pin you down before you can get to them or they stay at the starting point because its behind nice cover and they have a "one shot" config.

Either way, as long as people think their winning potential is higher by standing at the starting point there will be no dynamic in the game, what makes it rather boring.

Another idea to keep people moveing, how about haveing three circles, big one that is nearly arena sized. One that is smaller and the last one beeing very small. Depending on in what circle you are at the end of the match you get bigger or smaller rewards while ending the match outside the circle gives you no rewards.(ELO will still be gained/lossed)
That way people who want to win no matter what can stand outside and win a boring match, everyone else can get more cash by beeing "center stage".
Lorewise you could also argue that the sponsors of Solaris do this so people have a more exiting match to watch. I mean imagne a boxing match where both are standing just in their corner hopeing that the other one will make a move. You think people would pay to see that? No and so it should be with Solaris too, people wouldn't pay to see a match where one or both competitors are just standing in a corner.

#14 Naqser

    Member

  • PipPipPip
  • The Deadly
  • The Deadly
  • 60 posts

Posted 23 April 2018 - 12:07 AM

View PostHelsbane, on 22 April 2018 - 10:43 PM, said:

Okay, for the last 5+ years, we've all been telling folks that the way to defend against lights if to use terrain to protect your back, and now people are asking for a penalty to be implemented to stop pilots from doing exactly what we've told them all this time?!? Really?!? Anyone else see the flaw in this equation? Call me crazy, but maybe the answer is to move the lights to a different division instead of trying to stop people from playing smart when faced with a more agile light mech that desperately wants to get at their rear.


I play lights, mainly, and I have no issues with anyone using the terrain to their own gain.
My issue is when there's little effort to do so for one part, and not the other, which is an issue with the map itself.
I mean, it is smart to cover one's weak points when you can, I do that too.
But there's little decision making, little thought, little effort, into smacking that big back against the edge of the map.
I thought I'd hate the Caves, but it's a fun map, because there aren't actually that many locations an Assault is perfectly safe. I have to juke well, and they have to predict my pattern. Heck, I've lost to assaults which were in the middle of the map cause they could predict where I'd be.

#15 Throe

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Survivor
  • Survivor
  • 1,018 posts
  • Locationdraiocht is a terrible mod

Posted 23 April 2018 - 09:32 AM

No. Absolutely not. I don't like this type of gameplay either, but if such a 'Mech can force a tie in such a way, then I don't think anything needs to be done to stop that.

I'm not saying this game is chess, but at least in the 1v1 arena, the overall state of play is *very* similar as a result. In chess, players are taught that a draw is far more desirable than a loss, assuming you think you have a very low chance of winning. So I don't think it's wrong at all for these players to wait for you such as you describe. I also don't think theres anything wrong with using the terrain to your advantage. The arena wall is a legitimate play space, and if the developers didn't intend that, it would have been an open play area with a red OOB marker instead.

I encountered this passive playstyle against a DWF on Steiner Colosseum just last night. I was in my QKD-IV4 with dual MRM 40. The DWF had backed into a corner at their own spawn and waited for me. I believe it was a 6xAC/2 DW with a few lasers. I took that 'Mech down pretty easily, although in that pilot's defense, they did respond by leaving their corner eventually, although they never made it out of the spawn. There's no way to know if the other pilot has "All" chat enabled, but I did attempt to chide them into a bit more aggression with, "So it's a tie then?" after initial engagement, when I walked into their spawn. I had been properly checking my corners and was facing them when I walked in, so it was a decent exchange for me. I think I got two volleys in, and of course they got some solid Dakka against me.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users