19 replies to this topic

[Bud Crue]

Elo based matches are a fiction for the same reason that the MM doesn't work in QP. We don't have the population. Played 2v2 matches today and yesterday. Div1 had 3-5 2 mans, Div 5 had only a couple. So guess what? you get matched with whomever is available regardless of rank. Speaking of what's available...

So most of my mechs are not the best, as I have not bought a lot of the more recent ones and frankly I am a bit of a lorehole (and I build for aesthetics more often than not). Let me tell ya though, if you want to win in a given division you really need to just accept that the pretense of "near perfect" balance is a lie, and just buy into the truth that is the meta. Some mechs and some builds are just better and playing them makes the mode much more enjoyable from a "I'd rather not keep getting beaten down match after match" point of view. Speaking of getting beaten down by the meta...

If you want to run with the big dogs of Div 1, you kinda need an Annihilator. There's no point in fighting it. Give in. They are out for cbills, and just buy the damn thing. They are simply brutally effective in this mode. Won a couple times in 2 man, exclusively because we got lucky, with scorch build MK-IIs, but with speed and maneuverability being largely negated via most of the maps and the nature of the other DIV 1 mechs; massive armor and firepower wins, nearly every time. Speaking of maneuverability...

To the poor fellow in the RAC 5 IV-4, dude, educate yourself on the quirks that your mech has. It's nice that you can jump around and be a bit faster (but honestly not all that much faster) than the Assaults, but that build is not doing you any favors in that division...

Speaking of divisions. PGI -Ahem- you really need to just stop. The maps do not allow half of the mechs, actually far more than that, to be of any use in even their most optimized builds. I mean c'mon, you can be honest with us...so, was Division 4 just your dumping ground for mechs that you were like just fed up with the whole dividing them up process? Jenners vs Grasshoppers vs Vipers vs Crabs vs Highlander IIcs? Seriously you can tell us wtf you were thinking here. We won't judge. Speaking of judging...

I admit it. I was fearful of Solaris. But I have come to like it at least in short bursts of play. I thought it would be a total distraction from the "real" or at least historical basis of the game: namely playing as a group, but I actually find 2v2 to be a lot of fun, even when I am getting my *** handed to me and the group queue wait times (at least for larger groups) have not been noticeably impacted. So I must say, that overall a job well done...though the bolt ons are an aesthetic travesty.

Edited by Bud Crue, 20 April 2018 - 02:52 PM.

[Bombast]

Bud Crue, on 20 April 2018 - 02:51 PM, said:

To the poor fellow in the RAC 5 IV-4, dude, educate yourself on the quirks that your mech has. It's nice that you can jump around and be a bit faster (but honestly not all that much faster) than the Assaults, but that build is not doing you any favors in that division...

To be fair, there's a good chance he knows his quirks, he's just desperately trying every build he can think of, grasping for anything that would make the IV-4 not a death trap in it's Division.

[AaronWolf]

Bombast, on 20 April 2018 - 03:02 PM, said:

To be fair, there's a good chance he knows his quirks, he's just desperately trying every build he can think of, grasping for anything that would make the IV-4 not a death trap in it's Division.

Eye-Vee-Deathtrap 4-U. (The Pilot.)

[Dragonporn]

I don't understand why PGI is so hell bent on dividing playerbase even more than it is already, with FP, Solo and Group queues for QP, now we have Solaris, and two aforementioned modes are screwed for a time being. FFS, f.e. you see that QP is most popular. Just fix some maps and modes, introduce more maps (and possibly modes), some tweaks to balance and we're golden. But nope...

On Solaris itself, didn't have time to play any MWO yet (had to perform full reinstall, took me days), but seriously, Elo or any kind of matchmaking wouldn't be set yet, because not enough time and matches have passed for system to set in. In time it won't be better because, as mentioned above, not enough actual population. Games like StarCraft 2 heavily struggle with it with regular pop of ~15k active player on regional prime time, and you still get ~50% of unfair matches both ways. Another problem is balance. It doesn't exist and never will be, anyone who played MWO in any modes for significant time can tell. And Solaris isn't a mode to goof around like in QP with weird builds. This is actual ultra-competitive PvP mode, where everyone will be going for cheesiest builds and strats to win. And in MWO this is incredibly boring... Meta gonna kill any gamemode in concept, hopefully not the game itself.

[DaFrog]

Not so random thought on Solaris : shadow hawk with an lb20x as a division 7 mech ?
I am done with that and going back to qp and FW.

[Bud Crue]

Bombast, on 20 April 2018 - 03:02 PM, said:

To be fair, there's a good chance he knows his quirks, he's just desperately trying every build he can think of, grasping for anything that would make the IV-4 not a death trap in it's Division.

Yeah I suppose. I guess I should be thankful, and just appreciate anyone playing the IV-4 (regardless of build) in its current division. Perhaps if it gets beaten down with enough thoroughness there (edit) is some hope that PGI won't nerf it too bad, what with it being obviously the greatest, most powerful super duper OP heavy in the game, at least in this mode according to PGI.

Edited by Bud Crue, 21 April 2018 - 03:44 AM.

[GX9900 Gundam X]

Solaris is the best thing that has happened to this game since it came out. It's nice to have a place where we can just duke it out mono y mono with whoever.

What we need is the ability to play 1v1 vs our friends though.
ALSO, we need solaris for testing grounds where VIP Mech brawler NPC shows up so we can test solaris builds.

Divisions are a great idea but do need adjustment. I'm still shivering about that 6 small pulse laser locust that just stood in front of me and strafed back and forth, destroying every component on my Dragon and i was barely able to make his leg critical.

DaFrog, on 20 April 2018 - 04:59 PM, said:

Not so random thought on Solaris : shadow hawk with an lb20x as a division 7 mech ?
I am done with that and going back to qp and FW.

you can easily outplay that, man.

Edited by GX9900 Gundam X, 21 April 2018 - 03:34 AM.

[Bud Crue]

Dragonporn, on 20 April 2018 - 03:44 PM, said:

I don't understand why PGI is so hell bent on dividing playerbase even more than it is already, with FP, Solo and Group queues for QP, now we have Solaris, and two aforementioned modes are screwed for a time being. FFS, f.e. you see that QP is most popular. Just fix some maps and modes, introduce more maps (and possibly modes), some tweaks to balance and we're golden. But nope...

It's not a question of them trying to fracture the player base even more, rather than how can they maintain a viable gaming population while continuing to lose players over the long term? They had to do something to keep the game running in a sufficiently viable way to warrant making mech packs for us to buy. As the population keeps falling, however gradually, it becomes increasingly more difficult for them to make the 12v12 modes (with or without a MM) viable in terms of player skill imbalance,wait times, appeal to the theoretical new player, etc. Solaris lets them have a mode where even with a minimal population of 2-4 people, in any and all of their new 14 queues, they can give you a viable gaming product. Yes, elo in this truly miniml population scenario is an illusion, stomps, etc will still be the norm, etc. but they can now give you that "no different than right now level of drawbacks" gaming experience but without the need to try to match up 24 players at any given time.

Yes they could have gone the route of trying to actually make the other modes more enjoyable and then leverage those improvements to get new players into the game, but alas, they have been failing at that for years. So with Solaris, instead of fighting the trend of population loss, they chose to embrace it and give us a mode that doesn't need much population to work; even with 14 queues.

Edited by Bud Crue, 21 April 2018 - 03:39 AM.

[Bud Crue]

GX9900 Gundam X, on 21 April 2018 - 03:33 AM, said:

What we need is the ability to play 1v1 vs our friends though.

Agree. That would make Solaris a lot more attractive to us communal players.
There are still private lobbies I suppose (aren't there?).

[Bombast]

GX9900 Gundam X, on 21 April 2018 - 03:33 AM, said:

What we need is the ability to play 1v1 vs our friends though.

That would be what private matches are for.

[Chados]

I remember back in Multiplayer Online Battletech days, Solaris was the place where duels happened and where gladiators rose to power. Warriors often were measured by their performance in that place. The House leaders usually were chosen through prowess in the arena. But it wasn’t for everyone-some of us were warriors, soldiers. We fought for the glory of our House, not for the entertainment of the masses.

I remember well an invasion by House Steiner on our frontier, in 3025. I was a lance leader in the Mustered Soldiery, the 3/9th Benjamin Regulars. There was a tournament on S7 and when the battle began, no one responded to the call to arms. We would be alone, to make our stand on St. John, a small, hot world near Alshain, far away from the Marches where we normally fought. But the Rasalhague units did not answer the call to battle that day, not right away. I moved our Lance there, and we four lone samurai defended our world against everything the Lyrans threw at us. We held our ground against them for six hours, until units of the Rasalhague Military District finally mobilized in our relief. I’ve heard stories from my friends in the Regiment I’m now part of about the epic defense of Wazan a few years ago. But St. John is the battle I will never forget.

[MischiefSC]

I am very pleased with the quality of the content in Solaris. Setting, interface, matchmaker.

I do worry about the long term viability of it but I'm happy to see how PGI adapts it. Updates/fixes have been very fast and stable for as a big a change as it's been.

Solaris has been the most polished, most content-rich, stable and well supported update to MWO bar none. Let's see how that plays out.

[Racerxintegra2k]

Here is my order of Greatest fun to Least.

Private Lobby Tournaments with Unit > Solaris > Quickplay > Scouting > Faction Play

[sycocys]

The more I play Solaris, the more I enjoy the mode - which is the exact opposite of all the other modes.

The divisions are a bit goofy, but its not so bad once you mostly eliminate the comp trash from your elo matching - speaking of this, it would be nice if PGI would just give them their own queue or at least allow players that don't want to participate in their playstyle opt-out for a hard elo gate.

[Luminis]

Dragonporn, on 20 April 2018 - 03:44 PM, said:

I don't understand why PGI is so hell bent on dividing playerbase even more than it is already, with FP, Solo and Group queues for QP, now we have Solaris, and two aforementioned modes are screwed for a time being. FFS, f.e. you see that QP is most popular. Just fix some maps and modes, introduce more maps (and possibly modes), some tweaks to balance and we're golden. But nope...

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

PGI pretty much has to divide their QP into solo and group queue, for one. Skittles vs. premades is quite the persistent issue in FW and bringing that to QP isn't gonna fly well with a lot of the players. Solaris I perceive as a bit of a non-issue in that regard, as the player numbers to form a match are so much lower than they are in QP, anyway.

FW... Well, it was a promised feature and unless PGI somehow rolls QP and FW into one game mode in whatever way, I can't see them going back on it without causing quite uproar.

[Ted Wayz]

Like my limited play in Solaris but it would be great if IS LRMs were useful. The maps are limiting when it comes to playstyle, kiting is definitely out of the question.

My fear is that if Solaris remains build centric eventually the best builds/skill loadouts will be identified and then every match will become watered down or one sided.

For now fun though.

[Dragonporn]

Bud Crue, on 21 April 2018 - 03:37 AM, said:

It's not a question of them trying to fracture the player base even more, rather than how can they maintain a viable gaming population while continuing to lose players over the long term? They had to do something to keep the game running in a sufficiently viable way to warrant making mech packs for us to buy. As the population keeps falling, however gradually, it becomes increasingly more difficult for them to make the 12v12 modes (with or without a MM) viable in terms of player skill imbalance,wait times, appeal to the theoretical new player, etc. Solaris lets them have a mode where even with a minimal population of 2-4 people, in any and all of their new 14 queues, they can give you a viable gaming product. Yes, elo in this truly miniml population scenario is an illusion, stomps, etc will still be the norm, etc. but they can now give you that "no different than right now level of drawbacks" gaming experience but without the need to try to match up 24 players at any given time.

Yes they could have gone the route of trying to actually make the other modes more enjoyable and then leverage those improvements to get new players into the game, but alas, they have been failing at that for years. So with Solaris, instead of fighting the trend of population loss, they chose to embrace it and give us a mode that doesn't need much population to work; even with 14 queues.

I honestly don't see how Solaris can be a new player friendly mode whatsoever. I see this mode as good tool for old, experienced vets, who have large collection of well optimized mechs, and tons of either MC or GXP to skill up and gear up their mechs for Solaris to show off. As QP player I kinda face brickwall here. I need to grind a lot more exp to respec my current mechs, c-Bills aren't problem, but it's a hustle to constantly swap loadouts dependent on the mode I wanna play. Easier would be just to buy another copy of each mech purely for Solaris, but that's a whole lot of exp grinding and money from the scratch.

I may be wrong, but currently I think solo QP is most relaxed and newb friendly environment any new player will have easy time diving in and don't feel too frustrated about his matches. However in Solaris, there would be people who know how to pilot and know how to build meta. Yes, I suppose Solaris can attract some old players back into the game but new blood? Doubtful. After few brutal stomps, I new player can actually ragequit MWO entirely for good.

[Bud Crue]

Dragonporn, on 21 April 2018 - 12:19 PM, said:

I honestly don't see how Solaris can be a new player friendly mode whatsoever. I see this mode as good tool for old, experienced vets, who have large collection of well optimized mechs, and tons of either MC or GXP to skill up and gear up their mechs for Solaris to show off. As QP player I kinda face brickwall here. I need to grind a lot more exp to respec my current mechs, c-Bills aren't problem, but it's a hustle to constantly swap loadouts dependent on the mode I wanna play. Easier would be just to buy another copy of each mech purely for Solaris, but that's a whole lot of exp grinding and money from the scratch.

I may be wrong, but currently I think solo QP is most relaxed and newb friendly environment any new player will have easy time diving in and don't feel too frustrated about his matches. However in Solaris, there would be people who know how to pilot and know how to build meta. Yes, I suppose Solaris can attract some old players back into the game but new blood? Doubtful. After few brutal stomps, I new player can actually ragequit MWO entirely for good.

Yes...to an extent.
I don't see Solaris being a draw for "new players" any more than the previous QP/FP game of old. I see it being worse for the new player for the reasons you state, but I also see it being far more attractive to the casual "I just want to play a few rounds of stompy robot duel" types as well as the old "DUDE! MWO has SOLARIS NOW" loreholes who left and just need a touch or lore/nostalgia to return, and of course the ego driven FPS folks who will see it as the ultimate potential epeen measuring contest.

The point of yours that I was responding to however, was to your assertion that PGI seeks to further divide the existing player base, not provide a mode that merely attracts or repels new players. The 14 new queues haven't really seemed to hurt Group Queue during prime times, so from my perspective there has been no real dividing of the base thus far. I only mentioned new players in the sense that MWO is no better off in terms of attracting new players with Solaris than it is without. That is to say I see Solaris being a net positive for the game -additive if you will. As such if it attracts new players, so much the better, and if it doesn't, oh well, at least it is something new for those of us who are here already.

Edited by Bud Crue, 21 April 2018 - 01:23 PM.

[kuma8877]

Dragonporn, on 21 April 2018 - 12:19 PM, said:

I honestly don't see how Solaris can be a new player friendly mode whatsoever. I see this mode as good tool for old, experienced vets, who have large collection of well optimized mechs, and tons of either MC or GXP to skill up and gear up their mechs for Solaris to show off. As QP player I kinda face brickwall here. I need to grind a lot more exp to respec my current mechs, c-Bills aren't problem, but it's a hustle to constantly swap loadouts dependent on the mode I wanna play. Easier would be just to buy another copy of each mech purely for Solaris, but that's a whole lot of exp grinding and money from the scratch.

I may be wrong, but currently I think solo QP is most relaxed and newb friendly environment any new player will have easy time diving in and don't feel too frustrated about his matches. However in Solaris, there would be people who know how to pilot and know how to build meta. Yes, I suppose Solaris can attract some old players back into the game but new blood? Doubtful. After few brutal stomps, I new player can actually ragequit MWO entirely for good.

If there's enough population available to provide appropriately matched ELO opponents for players, newbies should be pitted against newbies or REALLY bad veterans (given enough time to spread everyone out appropriately). If the system can function it's not a bad buffer mechanism and should be fairly soft on newer players. If the gates are simply defined by whatever bodies are available, then that's a possibly brutal situation for a newb to be sure.

Edited by kuma8877, 21 April 2018 - 04:03 PM.

[Sorbic]

My random thought is that DC'ing is a lot more painful in Solaris. At least in regular matches I can usually get back in before anyone gets to me and, with how many folks purposefully meander to the fight, get to the fight just as it's starting.

However in Solaris I come back to a fairly wrecked match and have gone on to lose all but one which was a draw. I was open red and couldn't get near him. He stayed in a concealed corner (fairly beat up) rarely poking as I had a range advantage. In the end I tried charging and the match drew to a close.