4 replies to this topic

[Makoto of Glie]

Solaris released yesterday. In 24 hours worth of time, we're already seeing a huge number of issues with the mode. Mech division placement, tonnage viability gaps, camping, nonparticipation, forced ties, etc. While some of these issues can't be solved so easily, I think many could be mitigated (in part) by a simple change in the mode's rules.

Proposal: The team (1 or 2 players) with the highest overall damage (damage done - team damage) wins the match. In 2 vs 2, this is superseded if a single mech dies; the team with 2 mechs remaining wins regardless.

My argument:

1. Tonnage Viability Gaps. Many players have mentioned that the current division listings strongly (strongly) favor heavy and assault mechs over mediums and lights. Even if a light or medium is able to outdamage their heavier opponent, all the opponent needs to do is land a few good shots to kill them before the end of the match, or run the clock out through camping / back to the wall strategies to force a tie. However, with this mechanic, a light or medium that plays well and is evasive could still manage to win on timeout.

2. Camping. See above. If a light or medium is able to outdamage a heavier opponent, that opponent camping will only ensure a loss. Conversely, if a heavy or assault is able to land shots on a light / medium, they cannot simply run away for the rest of the match, and must engage again at some point in order to win.

3. Nonparticipation. Again, see 2. If a fast light / medium simply wants to run around and not engage, all a heavy or assault has to do is land a few shots and inevitably do more damage to win.

4. Consumables. They're banned in Solaris. This is good; it ensures that no fast mech can drop two artillery strikes on your assault and run around like Benny Hill for the rest of the match. In order to win, they have to engage, and risk getting shot.

5. Forced Ties. Nobody likes to lose. The default setting for a tie is that both players lose, rather than an unchanged ranking. This is ridiculous and needs to go. This change would practically guarantee that from happening.

6. No Weapons, Bro. Similar to above, there have been matches where both players have had no choice but to force a tie, because both mechs have either run out of ammo / lost all their weapons in the course of a match. While this idea does not eliminate the need to wait for the timer, it does ensure that the player that performed better overall still wins the match.

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End of points.

Do you believe this change will benefit the mode? Are there any downsides that you can see? Is it open to exploits? Comments and criticisms appreciated, please leave below.

Edited by Makoto of Glie, 19 April 2018 - 11:50 AM.

[DFM]

I think I agree, but you haven't made it 100% clear.

Do you mean that in 1v1 or 2v2 when a opponent hasn't been disabled completely, using damage done to determine a winner?

As it reads right now, it seems like just using damage done to determine a winner period. Which just doesn't work in a kill scenario.
I can spray damage around a opponent, while he tags me with a couple of well placed salvo's and takes out my torso, possibly killing me if I'm running a XL while doing less damage overall.

So, he aimed better, focused better, but lost because I took a XL engine and just sprayed damage across his mech?

There is also the problem that a assault/heavy will never be able to out damage a light mech, as there just isn't the same amount of armor. So light stealth mechs win Solaris 7?

[Makoto of Glie]

DFM, on 19 April 2018 - 10:50 AM, said:

I think I agree, but you haven't made it 100% clear.

Do you mean that in 1v1 or 2v2 when a opponent hasn't been disabled completely, using damage done to determine a winner?

Yes. Kills still determine the winner, but if numbers are equal (two mechs alive in 1 v 1, four in 2 v 2), highest overall damage would determine the winner.

Quote

There is also the problem that a assault/heavy will never be able to out damage a light mech, as there just isn't the same amount of armor. So light stealth mechs win Solaris 7?

This could be a problem, sure. However, you have to consider that most heavier mechs in the divisions can one or two-shot a leg / XL engine off a light with their stronger alphas. Heavies and assaults would likely need to kill the light to win, but that would be a tradeoff for their tonnage advantage. Furthermore, this change wouldn't really affect the playstyle of stealth lights at all. They thrive on making unopposed pokes and whittling enemies down with lighter firepower. Matches would likely play out exactly the same way.

Let's say we have a match where a stealth light does 350 damage to an assault, and nearly kills it, but can't manage to get the finishing blow in time. The assault only does 50 damage to the light. Do both players deserve to lose in this scenario? It's clear that one outplayed the other.

[GX9900 Gundam X]

Absolutely ridiculous idea. This entire game series from Mechwarrior 1 up until MWO and MW5 has all been based on focused damage to components. In fact this is the basis of the entire franchise. If you want Battletech where it only comes down to damage overall no matter which component it hits, go play MechAssault (a good game in its own right).

Makoto of Glie, on 19 April 2018 - 11:47 AM, said:

Let's say we have a match where a stealth light does 350 damage to an assault, and nearly kills it, but can't manage to get the finishing blow in time. The assault only does 50 damage to the light. Do both players deserve to lose in this scenario? It's clear that one outplayed the other.

I had a game vs a king crab as my poking stealth shadowcat build and I nearly won, but I messed up my footing on accident and he ended up stripping me of all of my weapons with just a few shots.

I still managed to tie by running away and hiding for the rest of the game. **** that guy. But he definitely outdamaged me and if it came down to raw damage I would have lost even though I outplayed him the entire match.

Edited by GX9900 Gundam X, 20 April 2018 - 11:00 PM.

[BTGbullseye]

Maybe if it's based off percentage of health brought to the battlefield, but not off raw numbers...