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Solaris After A While


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#1 The6thMessenger

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 06:19 AM

Meh, really it is meh.

I suppose people enjoy playing 1v1 or 2v2 -- and I admit i haven't tried 2v2. But 1v1 isn't really that special, in fact i think it's rather unfun. In my experience, especially D1, my most successful build is that of Anni with 6x AC2 and 1 HPPC -- yes that's right, long range builds in 1v1 with assault is the meta. I suppose close-range brawlers as well as that IV-4 has their merits, but so far Anni with that build is just to damn cancerous.

With the demands of a 1v1, Clan-mechs are hardly a choice, unless it's the meta-ones, cause in general IS mechs are overquirked with armor and structure. I learned Direwolf loses on an Anni the hard way.

One problem i sought with it is why on earth are we matching up heavier mechs with lighter ones? Sure, i guess that hit-and-run clan-mechs like arctic wolf stand a chance against something like a direwolf cause it's slower, but then if we get to lights versus heavy mechs, we could fire all we like but it just takes a few good hits for us. I suppose it was fun when i managed to core and leg that Knight-of-Color with my K9, even if i lost. But the hell did you expect? Even though K9 has the armor of a medium, it still has the fire-power of a light.

And if one doesn't choose to brawl, it's either frustrating hit-and-runs from a faster mech that the slower mech is generally going to have problems dealing with, or some unfun poking from afar from a perpetual goose-chase.

The divisions should have taken in consideration of max-armor amount after-quirks, the mech mobility and move-speed, and the match-making references both alpha and DPS, instead of hard-classification like the Dire-Wolf is at D1, period. What i want is like this:

My formula goes as follows.

Quote

(Firepower* x Armor x Speed-Mobility)/1000


Note: firepower = what is higher between Alpha-strike w/o rockets, or the DPS for AC builds. This means that the division is tied to the build's result, instead of the mechs themselves. This tries that mechs with equal performance with respect to builds would be matched up as often as it could, assuming population supports it. It's not a perfect equation, but that's what i meant for it -- for the divisions to be based solely on what mech and what build it has.

And then lastly, the meta. Personally, I'm fine with people going all meta, but what makes Solaris fun is the diversity of builds. If people just end up playing the same effective builds over and over, there's barely any freedom to experiment for the fun there lest we get punished for "being ourselves".

Edited by The6thMessenger, 24 April 2018 - 06:32 AM.


#2 El Bandito

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 06:28 AM

View PostThe6thMessenger, on 24 April 2018 - 06:19 AM, said:

I suppose people enjoy playing 1v1 or 2v2 -- and I admit i haven't tried 2v2. But 1v1 isn't really that special, in fact i think it's rather unfun. In my experience, especially D1, my most successful build is that of Anni with 6x AC2 and 1 HPPC -- yes that's right, long range builds in 1v1 with assault is the meta. I suppose close-range brawlers as well as that IV-4 has their merits, but so far Anni with that build is just to damn cancerous.


Play different division then. Each division has different meta.


View PostThe6thMessenger, on 24 April 2018 - 06:19 AM, said:

With the demands of a 1v1, Clan-mechs are hardly a choice, unless it's the meta-ones, cause in general IS mechs are overquirked with armor and structure. I learned Direwolf loses on an Anni the hard way.


I lost to an Ultraviolet with my 6xAC5 Anni, on Steiner map. UV can still be good if your aim is.

#3 The6thMessenger

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 06:30 AM

View PostEl Bandito, on 24 April 2018 - 06:28 AM, said:

Play different division then. Each division has different meta.


True. But then to the meta itself, it just kills diversity of builds cause it's always what works.

View PostEl Bandito, on 24 April 2018 - 06:28 AM, said:

I lost to an Ultraviolet with my 6xAC5 Anni, on Steiner map. UV can still be good if your aim is.


Are you gifting me an Ultraviolet? Well if not, I doub't that there's any point to that. (I could buy a UV, but not like i have the cash, or the will to spend 25$ on virtual stuff.)

#4 Asym

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 06:40 AM

Why are the divisions mixed by weights? SALES... It forces disparity and disparity leads to insecurity, which leads to compulsion to resolve the disparity and that solution, is to buy a "better xxxxxx mech"..... After all, you are a light mech pilot ! You can't become an assault pilot right? Yuk....who'd do that plodding around for an entire game just to get to the freaking fight......

Sales. If all of the assaults were in one class, there would be no one to farm..... Even potatoes can blow crap up at 3 meters with a meta assault mech.....but mix the weight classes and tell the community "it's about the challenge" and the S7 mode runs amok until the ELO may or may not "balance the playing field out..." Right, as if we have a large enough population to do that....

SALES.... It's about sales potential.

#5 El Bandito

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 06:58 AM

View PostThe6thMessenger, on 24 April 2018 - 06:30 AM, said:

Are you gifting me an Ultraviolet? Well if not, I doub't that there's any point to that. (I could buy a UV, but not like i have the cash, or the will to spend 25$ on virtual stuff.)


UV is still technically a Direwolf. Posted Image

View PostThe6thMessenger, on 24 April 2018 - 06:30 AM, said:

True. But then to the meta itself, it just kills diversity of builds cause it's always what works.


Such unimaginative remark. A set meta means an opportunity to get easy wins if you find the counter for it--since most people will be playing the meta build. For example, I had a hard time initially against dakka KGC meta in Div 3, but now I had overcome it so my WLR is very positive in it.

Edited by El Bandito, 24 April 2018 - 07:00 AM.


#6 Mystere

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 10:17 AM

View PostAsym, on 24 April 2018 - 06:40 AM, said:

Why are the divisions mixed by weights? SALES... It forces disparity and disparity leads to insecurity, which leads to compulsion to resolve the disparity and that solution, is to buy a "better xxxxxx mech"..... After all, you are a light mech pilot ! You can't become an assault pilot right? Yuk....who'd do that plodding around for an entire game just to get to the freaking fight......

Sales. If all of the assaults were in one class, there would be no one to farm..... Even potatoes can blow crap up at 3 meters with a meta assault mech.....but mix the weight classes and tell the community "it's about the challenge" and the S7 mode runs amok until the ELO may or may not "balance the playing field out..." Right, as if we have a large enough population to do that....

SALES.... It's about sales potential.


Yep. That Yen Lo Wang in D7 suddenly got so tempting to get. So I decided to play another division. <shrugs>

#7 El Bandito

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 10:22 AM

View PostMystere, on 24 April 2018 - 10:17 AM, said:

Yep. That Yen Lo Wang in D7 suddenly got so tempting to get. So I decided to play another division. <shrugs>


Haven't lost not even once to the Wang, using my C-Bill Vindicator-1X.

#8 Mystere

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 10:27 AM

View PostEl Bandito, on 24 April 2018 - 10:22 AM, said:

Haven't lost not even once to the Wang, using my C-Bill Vindicator-1X.


I decided to RP Solaris and play only one mech in D7, the free Uziel. The Wang seems to be my nemesis.

So I'm thinking about RPing the Ice Ferret for a while. Posted Image

Edited by Mystere, 24 April 2018 - 10:28 AM.


#9 MechaBattler

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 10:36 AM

I think it's a good addition to the game. Another way to play. And the divisions having differing metas gives people more options. Though PGI's desire to wait 3 months before changing the divisions is kinda ehhh.

#10 Asym

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 11:57 AM

View PostEl Bandito, on 24 April 2018 - 10:22 AM, said:


Haven't lost not even once to the Wang, using my C-Bill Vindicator-1X.

Yes, and now, everyone is looking to obtain that mech..... Sales is driven by need and if you are out-right eating everyone's lunch in that Vindicator-1x, you betcha, everyone will try and get one !
sales generation comes in many forms and YOU, my friend are a good one ! Buy this mech you potato drivers and try and be like me ! Cha-ching, the sales average go up !

They should pay you a lot of others a commission for heavens sake......

Edited by Asym, 24 April 2018 - 11:58 AM.


#11 M R T

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 12:27 PM

View PostMystere, on 24 April 2018 - 10:17 AM, said:

Yep. That Yen Lo Wang in D7 suddenly got so tempting to get. So I decided to play another division. <shrugs>

But there aren't just metaplayers in the divisions, you can find some really good players too. Take this Vorteex for example, who at the moment is 2nd in D7 with a Spider-5V with 2 MPLs. Beating the meta like that is pretty impressive IMO.

#12 The6thMessenger

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 01:17 PM

View PostEl Bandito, on 24 April 2018 - 06:58 AM, said:

Such unimaginative remark. A set meta means an opportunity to get easy wins if you find the counter for it--since most people will be playing the meta build. For example, I had a hard time initially against dakka KGC meta in Div 3, but now I had overcome it so my WLR is very positive in it.


But as far as i'm concerned, it's meta because it's what works and deviating from it is just a disservice for you, and a service for the enemy. You could call it unimaginative as you want, but as far as I'm concerned, that's what happens.

#13 Tier5 Kerensky

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 01:23 PM

I've run well 6xLBX2 Dire, lost some win many. Though againts 8xAC2 Annihilator I lost by a mile, I didn't even know a loadout like that is possible. And he didn't just take out my CT, he exposed and nearly finished off my both STs as well, while I barely crached his CT while exposing his ST.( I aimed to take out CT)

Remember there's not only divisions, but also ELO. You take a looser attitude towards meta and you will encounter more other players with similiar approach. Granted that works better when there's more players in queue.

#14 Khobai

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 01:25 PM

View PostEl Bandito, on 24 April 2018 - 06:28 AM, said:

Play different division then. Each division has different meta.


But the one thing they all have in common is not being fun

#15 El Bandito

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 06:35 PM

View PostAsym, on 24 April 2018 - 11:57 AM, said:

Yes, and now, everyone is looking to obtain that mech..... Sales is driven by need and if you are out-right eating everyone's lunch in that Vindicator-1x, you betcha, everyone will try and get one !
sales generation comes in many forms and YOU, my friend are a good one ! Buy this mech you potato drivers and try and be like me ! Cha-ching, the sales average go up !

They should pay you a lot of others a commission for heavens sake......


I could care less about what the potatoes think. No meta mech replaces piloting skill. Also, Battletech is now live. Shouldn't you go play that instead of this "boring crap game", and leave the forums in peace?

View PostKhobai, on 24 April 2018 - 01:25 PM, said:

But the one thing they all have in common is not being fun


Fun is relative. For me, the fun lies in breaking the meta, and beating players at their best. I thrive on challenge. You may give up as you wish.


View PostTeer Kerensky, on 24 April 2018 - 01:23 PM, said:

I've run well 6xLBX2 Dire, lost some win many. Though againts 8xAC2 Annihilator I lost by a mile, I didn't even know a loadout like that is possible. And he didn't just take out my CT, he exposed and nearly finished off my both STs as well, while I barely crached his CT while exposing his ST.( I aimed to take out CT)


Annihilator can at most have 6 ballistic points. You are mistaken.


View PostThe6thMessenger, on 24 April 2018 - 01:17 PM, said:

But as far as i'm concerned, it's meta because it's what works and deviating from it is just a disservice for you, and a service for the enemy. You could call it unimaginative as you want, but as far as I'm concerned, that's what happens.


It is exactly that, unimaginative. In Annihilator infested Div 1, for example, I am having 5:1 WLR with my Mauler. No mech is perfect. And the more people hop onto that "perfect" mech's bandwagon, the better you can do well with your niche meta-breaker mech--such as the case with my MAD-5D against King Crabs, in Div 3.

Edited by El Bandito, 24 April 2018 - 06:42 PM.


#16 Tier5 Kerensky

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 07:18 PM

View PostEl Bandito, on 24 April 2018 - 06:35 PM, said:


Annihilator can at most have 6 ballistic points. You are mistaken.


Oh yeah sorry, I guess it just felt like it. I checked the screenshots of two games I've had againts them and both have 6xAC2, other along with some small pulse and other with two ERL.

#17 Asym

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 09:12 PM

View PostEl Bandito, on 24 April 2018 - 06:35 PM, said:


I could care less about what the potatoes think. No meta mech replaces piloting skill. Also, Battletech is now live. Shouldn't you go play that instead of this "boring crap game", and leave the forums in peace?


Oh heck no ! You guys are so illuminating: you are a Doctoral thesis in the making ! The data is more than abundant....

And, I like MWO and have for a long time: I just can't play it well enough to find it interesting at the moment. That could always change. Bye the way, people watch your play and I wasn't being insulting. Apologies if you took it that way.... Good hunting.

#18 DeadEye COTP

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 09:21 PM

Play 2v2, it's a game changer. Actual teamwork and tactics required, very little "rush and face hug to see who can CT first". I got bored of 1v1 as well, think I'm sitting at 60/18 or thereabouts and I just went back to QP until buddies of mine want to play.

#19 Zergling

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 10:30 PM

View PostThe6thMessenger, on 24 April 2018 - 06:19 AM, said:

I learned Direwolf loses on an Anni the hard way.


Pretty much everything loses to an Anni.

#20 Savage Wolf

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Posted 25 April 2018 - 03:39 AM

I found Solaris meh, until I tried to defy the meta and tried to see how far I could get in an ATM Shadowcat against King Crabs. Turns out, pretty far. Many use slow assaults equipped for brawling so they have a hard time dealing with a fast medium which poptart missiles. Probably not going to get me to the top of the leaderboard, but at least it's fun.





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