51 replies to this topic

[Tier5 Kerensky]

The game rewards damaging enemies so much over winning that people care nothing about objectives for most parts.

Usually when a team is losing the battle of tonnage it's so odd how nearly never they fall back to have the enemy poking them and allowing them to return fire more effectively, no they usually do the opposite and push harder.

Now if you are last few surviving and specially with good health, they will diss you anyway. Easy target for fustration.

[TooDumbToQuit]

I have a Piranha (a PR-1) called "Conquest" (I have three mechs named "Conquest"). He has maxed out speed and capture.

Early and even at mid-game, at least one guy was saying caps do not matter. I took Theta and ran from 2 assaults. I made one kill and then started capping. We were at 11-8 at the end but could not catch the last guy and they were slightly ahead on caps. We were one ahead on kills for most of the match.

I think we won it 750 to 702.

While the rest of my team defeated the other team (I had one kill), IMO, I won the game.

Edited by LikeUntoGod, 29 April 2018 - 06:32 AM.

[TooDumbToQuit]

Teer Kerensky, on 29 April 2018 - 02:57 AM, said:

The game rewards damaging enemies so much over winning that people care nothing about objectives for most parts.

Usually when a team is losing the battle of tonnage it's so odd how nearly never they fall back to have the enemy poking them and allowing them to return fire more effectively, no they usually do the opposite and push harder.

Now if you are last few surviving and specially with good health, they will diss you anyway. Easy target for fustration.

I see (mainly in Faction Warfare also) players just walk or run up to get killed. They have 3 mechs waiting and you run up to them and they kill you.

I have railed about taking defensive positions but it rarely works. More player should operate in a buddy system where all they do it look for two on ones.

Anyway, Damage and Kills is all that counts. They need to up the cash and XP for most objectives. I had an Inclusion game where I took out 5 turrets, 3 bases and Air Control and Radar. The only C-Bills and XP I got was really from my one kill.

[Spare Parts Bin]

LikeUntoGod, on 29 April 2018 - 06:08 AM, said:

I see (mainly in Faction Warfare also) players just walk or run up to get killed. They have 3 mechs waiting and you run up to them and they kill you.

I have railed about taking defensive positions but it rarely works. More player should operate in a buddy system where all they do it look for two on ones.

Anyway, Damage and Kills is all that counts. They need to up the cash and XP for most objectives. I had an Inclusion game where I took out 5 turrets, 3 bases and Air Control and Radar. The only C-Bills and XP I got was really from my one kill.

Damage against facilities does not matter. You could have a fast medium Omnimech/Mech equipped with 3-5 MPLs and one UAC-20. You could burn all your UAC-20 ammo blasting the enemy base to the stone ages your score would not reflect this damage.

[DFM]

alpha lance(in general) should grab furthest caps, then harass, then focus on counter-counter capping

Anything slower than 90KPH should focus on deleting the enemy. works for incursion as well.

Had a relatively fresh marauder "win the game for us" by doing some damage to the enemy base with 7 minutes left and 3 enemies still alive, while those 3 enemies killed off the 2 of us that were fighting them.

Didn't win that game. After they worked him, they walked over to our base, and hit them for 1 more point than he did and we lost.

[SilentScreamer]

Yes objectives matter. Some map/gamemode combos it matters more than others....

Mining Colony is so tight, any match can be played as if it were Skirmish. Caps rarely matter.

HPG skirmish....half one team will usually hide in the basement.

Crimson Strait Assault-mode matches are easily lost or won because one team piles into the tunnel or city and WAITS for the other team. Instead their opponents walk over the hill and base cap.

Alpine Domination-mode..should not have to explain if you have played it.

Frozen City Skirmish-mode the first team to take a causualty has to take the "March of Shame" across the valley. Nobody wants to be on that team.

Edited by SilentScreamer, 29 April 2018 - 06:47 PM.

[Spare Parts Bin]

You must have your team working together to win Domination on The HPG Manifold. If you can hold the four entrances to the basement, you can win on objectives. Still alotta killing to be done.

[TooDumbToQuit]

Spare Parts Bin, on 30 April 2018 - 03:42 AM, said:

You must have your team working together to win Domination on The HPG Manifold. If you can hold the four entrances to the basement, you can win on objectives. Still alotta killing to be done.

I like holding the basement but a lot of players hate it. One problem is that to players have a problem with poking. They have to look out. They step into the doorway and get hit by the three enemy mechs waiting there. This happens over and over until you are down one then two and you are forced to come out.

In fact, if you try to hold the basement and you go down one or more, chances are you have lost. You have to all ball up and leave the basement together with some walking backward and firing up at the enemy mechs fire down on you.

Here is LUG's tactic for keeping the basement and winning.

If every player on the team does not have enough patience, then it will not work. Most of the time, at least one player will break down and do something to get himself killed. The other team will taunt you and someone always falls for it.

Post mechs on the sides of each doorway. There is even some cover at some doors. DO NOT EVER LOOK OUT! This is where having seismic helps a lot. And remember, anyone on top can see using seismic where everyone in the basement is. SO YOU FIND A SPOT AT THE SIDE OF A DOOR AND YOU STAY STILL, DO NOT MOVE.

I need to learn how to use some drawing program but I will try to explain. You and a teammate are on the inside side of the doors not moving. An enemy mech steps in (Only one can come in at a time)and you shoot him from one side and your teammate hits him from the other. So the enemy mech can turn to you and your teammate will shot him in the back. Or he will turn on your teammate and you will shoot him in the back.

Then at least one of the "floaters" who are posted inside where they cannot be seen from the door also adds his fire. Now you have a two on one if not a three on one.

I love Flamers in this situation. I was running a "Flaming Fish" and had the side of one door and 5 kills went to 2 teammates (I did get one). I Flamed them and shut them down as they came in the other two killed them. I think one of our guys got at least one headshot kill from this.

Once they are down one it sucks for them much as if you are down one.

A player on the other team said something interesting. I had this thought semi in my head but he brought it out. You often really do not know something until someone on the other sides verifies it. He mentioned that their plan was to rush two doors. They had talked about it and everyone was going to go in, the first two guys would go the sides to make way for the others coming behind. And this is what happened at the other door. Two lights slipped past the defenders and created problems. But since we knew where most of them were through seismic, out guys from the other two doors moved in on them.

Normally, stay at YOUR DOOR. Anyway, this guy said that the first mech being shut down by my Flamers messed up their plan. Their first mech when he was shut down, clogged the hole. One light slipped in but we stayed at our post and killed them one by one.

[TooDumbToQuit]

[Tier5ForLife]

Well, I did "dumb stuff" but I made a couple of new friends.

[Tanil Kane]

Spare Parts Bin, on 27 April 2018 - 04:36 AM, said:

My last QP game last night was Conquest on The Mining Collective or TMC for short. The game was going well, so I switched gears and started capping. Next thing I know distress calls started coming in.
I was capping even harder then. Next thing I know I am last man standing and I am getting 40 pound bags of salt. Some memorable ones include you ran, you left your team behind, you are in a heavy why CAP, do not drag the game out we have lost.
The objective to Conquest is CAPs. We lost 400-500?,to 750.

Is this an example of group think? Do Objectives Even Matter anymore?

Objectives matter to a degree. But in most game modes, killing the enemy team first and then completing the objective is the best method. The game also does not incentivize playing the objectives over just doing dmg. If you base rush on Assault and cap without firing a shot, you have won the match but will get a pittance of Cbills/xp/match score.

Now, for conquest, you can use other strategies for a win. 3 Cap + poke/delay tactic. 2 cap and push, etc. But in all of those scenarios, someone piloting a heavy should not be capping instead of fighting. That is not the role of a heavy in that game mode. You won't have the speed to cap enough points to swing a match, whereas sharing your armor and firepower could swing a match.

If you were in a fast light, capping while the main force fights can be quite effective as you can cap the ones the enemy team initially got and be at a 4 or 5 cap before the enemy responds.

[Spare Parts Bin]

Came really close yesterday to winning just on objectives. My unit leader and I hit the enemy base on Grim Plexus Incursion and acted like they were behind in protection $$$. We blasted the base to scrap then were taken out by the enemy team. My question is if we had killed the power supply locations would we have won?

[Tanil Kane]

Spare Parts Bin, on 04 May 2018 - 10:54 AM, said:

Came really close yesterday to winning just on objectives. My unit leader and I hit the enemy base on Grim Plexus Incursion and acted like they were behind in protection $$$. We blasted the base to scrap then were taken out by the enemy team. My question is if we had killed the power supply locations would we have won?

I think you need to take out the Radar Tower, Jammer, and Air Support tower in addition to the Power supply locations to get the win.

[Dragonporn]

Spare Parts Bin, on 04 May 2018 - 10:54 AM, said:

Came really close yesterday to winning just on objectives. My unit leader and I hit the enemy base on Grim Plexus Incursion and acted like they were behind in protection $$$. We blasted the base to scrap then were taken out by the enemy team. My question is if we had killed the power supply locations would we have won?

What Tanil Kane said, plus keep in mind that going Rambo at enemy base early on is pretty much a suicide. Even if you manage to kill 90% of the base, and if you, with few other guys who went base bashing are last men standing, you will be taken out very quickly and enemy will win anyway. Going solo is never adviced, you will never have time to do any significant damage on your own quick enough. So it takes really-really good knowledge of enemy positions, consistence and enemy relation to your own team numbers when you can even think about attempting base rush. If you're unsure it is a good idea, don't.

[Eisenhorne]

Spare Parts Bin, on 04 May 2018 - 10:54 AM, said:

Came really close yesterday to winning just on objectives. My unit leader and I hit the enemy base on Grim Plexus Incursion and acted like they were behind in protection $$$. We blasted the base to scrap then were taken out by the enemy team. My question is if we had killed the power supply locations would we have won?

Ohh man this one often gives me fits. When 10 of us engage the enemy team, but we have 2 heavies or assaults who decided to sneak into the enemy base, it's always a terrible time. Almost always, what happens here is that we lose the fight because we're down two heavy mechs, the enemy team kills us all then gets back in time to kill our 2 guys faffing about in their base, then we need to wait 5 minutes while the enemy team treks across the map and kills our base.

NEVER attack the enemy base in incursion if you're in a heavy or assault mech, unless your entire team is doing it. If your team is fighting the enemy, your best case scenario here is you're sacrificing your entire team to win on objectives.. but even that one is uncommon. In my experience, the team that does this loses more often than not.

[SilentFenris]

Eisenhorne, on 04 May 2018 - 12:41 PM, said:

NEVER attack the enemy base in incursion if you're in a heavy or assault mech, unless your entire team is doing it. If your team is fighting the enemy, your best case scenario here is you're sacrificing your entire team to win on objectives.. but even that one is uncommon. In my experience, the team that does this loses more often than not.

Yup, copy that.

Now, if your team is up 8-2 and the enemy mechs still functioning are fast/ecm/hiding, then it is time to win by objectives. Destroy the base in Incusion, or win by Cap in Assault/Conquest/Domination. But splitting the unit at the start is a typically bad move.

[Spare Parts Bin]

Eisenhorne, on 04 May 2018 - 12:41 PM, said:

Ohh man this one often gives me fits. When 10 of us engage the enemy team, but we have 2 heavies or assaults who decided to sneak into the enemy base, it's always a terrible time. Almost always, what happens here is that we lose the fight because we're down two heavy mechs, the enemy team kills us all then gets back in time to kill our 2 guys faffing about in their base, then we need to wait 5 minutes while the enemy team treks across the map and kills our base.

NEVER attack the enemy base in incursion if you're in a heavy or assault mech, unless your entire team is doing it. If your team is fighting the enemy, your best case scenario here is you're sacrificing your entire team to win on objectives.. but even that one is uncommon. In my experience, the team that does this loses more often than not.

I announced the Plan was to burn the base down. No takers so we hit it alone. Tried really hard. Did only a little damage to the forces that came to stop us. I was outta ammo for the ACs. Used my SRMs and ERSLs on them.

I will only try this again if and when I can get 4-5 takers.

[Chryckan]

Except for those times in assault when the team walk pass each other (usually on Crimson Straight or on Polar) to cap the base without a shot being fired the only map mode where objectives matter is Capture.

I've lost games where my team killed the entire other team but didn't cap enough so that the enemy still won. I've both won and lost games where a solo light or fast mech capped out the resources while the other team killed the rest of his team.

As a light I've done more for my team by capping and splitting the other teams focus while not even firing my weapons once.

Not to mention that you usually get fun light vs. light fights when the capping lights run in to each others away from the main furball.

[DFM]

Spare Parts Bin, on 04 May 2018 - 07:21 PM, said:

I announced the Plan was to burn the base down. No takers so we hit it alone. Tried really hard. Did only a little damage to the forces that came to stop us. I was outta ammo for the ACs. Used my SRMs and ERSLs on them.

I will only try this again if and when I can get 4-5 takers.

or don't.

I don't know what the total HP of the enemy base is, but lets say it's 1000 to clean out all the mobile bases and win the game.

Now, you can yolo straight there in your heavy/assault, get there, start doing damage.
Meanwhile the enemy team is outnumbering your team in both actual numbers and tonnage.
So they usually manage to come back and start to pick on your mech that's wasted it's ammo on the base, but they're pretty beat up as well. Too bad they have numerical superiority still and you go down after doing 700 damage to their base.

Now, all they have to do is do 701 damage to your base and they win.

Now, if you had met them in the field and won, you only need to do 1 point of damage to win the game(unless they were bad too and one of them went to the base early).

FFS, if 75% of the team isn't down and fast enough to actually pull it off, it's a bad idea.

Don't quick cap.

Edited by DFM, 05 May 2018 - 04:26 PM.

[mailin]

Incursion, NEVER go for the base unless the whole team does it.

Conquest, fast lights grab 3 caps then look to see where the numbers are. Either engage the enemy or keep capping. Fatties generally should NEVER cap until all enemies are dead, unless the cap is only a little out of the way, like Theta on Grim Plexus, or if the last guy is a fast light. On HPG, NEVER grab Theta right away unless you're in something screamingly fast, like a locust. Fatties go on top and stay there.

Edited by mailin, 05 May 2018 - 07:01 PM.