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Racs


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#1 Destabilizator

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 02:35 PM

What do you think would bring them up to snuff? Simple damage buff?
They tend to be quite good if the target is not looking, so damage buff is probably out of question.

#2 Grus

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 02:53 PM

Did a anh build with them and chewed mech's apart. Dosnt look like they need anything. And every ton I see a bushwacker with 2 rac5 it seems to do well so... don't think it needs any adjustment.

#3 MechaBattler

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 02:56 PM

View PostGrus, on 04 May 2018 - 02:53 PM, said:

Did a anh build with them and chewed mech's apart. Dosnt look like they need anything. And every ton I see a bushwacker with 2 rac5 it seems to do well so... don't think it needs any adjustment.


Well a Bushwacker has the armor and profile to keep on target long enough.

#4 Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 03:12 PM

With further testing they seem to actually be great weapons but situational. They're assault killers, assault mechs can't twist quickly enough to really spread the damage that RACs put out too well. More specifically they work really well on mechs like the Annihilator where you have the durability to stay in a fight long enough to out DPS anyone you fight. You come across some alpha damage assault and they might hit you once but by the time their duration is done your RACs have spun up and they take more damage than they did to you attempting to get back behind cover.

At least that's what happened in practice whenever I use my Annihilator, it just deletes poor clan mechs trying to win with high alphas and my annihilator just shrugs off 100 point alphas because great hitboxes and super high health pools.

All this said, the RAC2s are 100% worthless trash and the RAC5s are pretty much only useful for assault mechs built to kill other assault mechs, and I guess slower heavies, though they do excellent in that role.

#5 Destabilizator

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 03:20 PM

View PostChampion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 04 May 2018 - 03:12 PM, said:

RAC5s are pretty much only useful for assault mechs built to kill other assault mechs, and I guess slower heavies, though they do excellent in that role.


Yeah, that's my experience too, armor/struct quirked mech (Bush, Roughneck, Catapult, Anni...) and try to duke it out.

But then I'm told left and right that RACs are crap :/ Maybe, but they just feel so good :>

Edited by Destabilizator, 04 May 2018 - 03:22 PM.


#6 Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 03:31 PM

View PostDestabilizator, on 04 May 2018 - 03:20 PM, said:


Yeah, that's my experience too, armor/struct quirked mech (Bush, Roughneck, Catapult, Anni...) and try to duke it out.

But then I'm told left and right that RACs are crap :/ Maybe, but they just feel so good :>


Well, they are crap... at certain things, then they're godly at others. So I can see why people would have conflicting ideas. Like if someone is running RACs on some paper Uziel trying to duke it out with brawler mediums they're going to have a terrible time as the enemy spreads damage and they get demolished due to a lack of sustain. That or they're using RAC2s.

#7 Alexander of Macedon

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 03:54 PM

They're fine if used properly. My RFL-3C double RAC/5 build is one of my go-tos when I feel like getting easy damage eating fatties. As long as you're not trying to trade alphas from cover or brawl in the open you're good.

#8 Redwo1f

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 03:55 PM

Keep in mind that RAC damage has far less critical potential than other ballistics...so all that damage is more on the empty side of things, relatively. ....but they look fun and sound fun firing.

#9 BrunoSSace

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 04:14 PM

You cant really buff racs. Then the mechs that use them well would be broken.

#10 Dragonporn

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 04:20 PM

The only buff I had in mind is damage multiplier dependent on firing length, reaching maximum near weapon jam. It would be sort of a tradoff, risk jam for higher damage or play it safe and get only minor DPS increase.

#11 Alexander of Macedon

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 05:09 PM

A nice buff would be faster spin-up time. That's the sort of QoL thing that makes them feel and perform better without just going "lol here's 20% more damage", and tends to be more favorable for 'mechs that aren't already well-suited to them. They're still not going to out-trade basically anything in short exchanges, but it becomes less painful to shoot when you don't need to wait or be constantly spooling them.

#12 Rocket2Uranus

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 05:55 PM

Honestly RACs are good as they are. They need spin up time to adjust for the burst damage the have. Heats up to avoid them spamming it non stop.

If anything I think they should have more recoil/shake when fired. The longer you shoot the more shake there should be.

#13 Shadowomega1

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 06:22 PM

As for direct buff would be their ammo count as even 5 tons of ammo on an Atlas DDC doesn't feel like enough.

#14 Phlynn

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 07:05 PM

RACs are great on push mechs. That said, many battles feature enemy pop tarts and snipers with modes that favor that style of play. (Domination anyone?) A RAC isn't much good in that situation - never get them spun up and and locked on before the other guy is behind cover. Combined with the MWOs general speed creep, faster and faster mechs make them less viable especially for conquest games. With the majority players happy to nascar, chasing down an enemy with a RAC isn't as effective as other weapons. Lack of alpha to cripple the other guys ability to run or fight.

I still prefer them over the other ACs just because I like to fight on the front line and they are great for breaking enemy fire lines.

Edited by Phlynn, 04 May 2018 - 07:06 PM.


#15 Redwo1f

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 07:35 PM

well....they work for fear factor in some....
But do this - take an ultra-ac5 and a RAC5 into testing grounds and then start to time how quickly it takes to destroy a mech. Do it several times and have a look. Compare. You may not be so wildly impressed with the RAC afterward. :P

#16 The6thMessenger

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 08:18 PM

RAC2s are ****. It's too weak, a 1.00 damage/hit is a good start.

RAC5s are kind of decent to ****, that completely depends on whether the bar doesn't jam on you, and whether you can put a lot of shells at a specific target and of the specific location -- which is very hard especially with the RAC5's slow projectie, and the stream-fire and spread of RACs in general, and it's something also dependent on the target -- obviously it's easier to beat down assaults with it and lights generally harder.

That being said, while RAC5s are workable, the RAC system is an overkill of risks with disproportionately small reward, much of the weapon despite being indirect-fire are aspects out of the player's control to be good such as dependent on shooting a lot of the stream at a single target as opposed just one heavy-damaged that makes it hard to reliably focus damage due to possible return fire and reaction to your stream that torso-twisting and efficient cover would fix, and the constant lead which the target moving can completely hamper the effectiveness, while at the same time the jam-bar hindering what arguably is the thing that gives RAC it's heavy damage making it worth to be used at all.

Making it much more reliable would be completely better, such as 100% jam-chance on-redline and balance the damage-output from there, make the velocity a lot faster too. Until PGI does those changes, RAC5 would always range between somewhere decent and total **** cause it's too situational.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 04 May 2018 - 08:25 PM.


#17 LordNothing

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 09:19 PM

id rather run a couple uac2s over either rac any day.

#18 Ace Selin

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 10:41 PM

Nooo

#19 Zergling

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 10:43 PM

RAC2s are complete garbage, and RAC5s are only marginally better.

RAC5s should receive a drastic reduction or complete elimination of their spread, along with reductions to spin-up time, jam time, stuff like that.
RAC2s need all that along with a damage buff.

Ideally, the RACs should be in a niche where they have the best burst damage/ton ratio of all ballistic weapons, but worst DPS/ton.
They might even have that niche right now, but the spread and spin time makes them just terrible compared to ACs and UACs; even LBX10 is better.

Edited by Zergling, 04 May 2018 - 10:46 PM.


#20 Destabilizator

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 11:52 PM

View PostZergling, on 04 May 2018 - 10:43 PM, said:

Ideally, the RACs should be in a niche where they have the best burst damage/ton ratio of all ballistic weapons, but worst DPS/ton.


Shouldn't it be the opposite? Chaingun and "burst" is kinda contradictory, it should imo have the best DPS/ton - validating the required facetime, but also requiring you to survive the enemy alpha.

What if we take inspiration from Crossout - every eg. 10th shot penetrates armor?





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