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#21 Zergling

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Posted 04 May 2018 - 11:59 PM

View PostDestabilizator, on 04 May 2018 - 11:52 PM, said:

Shouldn't it be the opposite? Chaingun and "burst" is kinda contradictory, it should imo have the best DPS/ton - validating the required facetime, but also requiring you to survive the enemy alpha.


It's about burst DPS; during the burst it dumps a lot of damage, but when downtime between bursts is factored in the DPS is low.
It's like comparing a Gauss Rifle to an AC10; the Gauss does more alpha damage but less DPS than the AC10.

I'm guesstimating RAC5 to be about 60 damage every 15 seconds, which works out to 3.67 DPS and 0.37 DPS/ton.
That puts it slightly higher than the regular AC20 with 0.36 DPS/ton, but much less than a UAC20 (or UAC10 and UAC5).

Combining how long it takes to do its 60 damage (about 5 seconds of burst) with the spin up time, spread and overall low DPS, the RAC5 is just a terribly weak weapon.



View PostDestabilizator, on 04 May 2018 - 11:52 PM, said:

What if we take inspiration from Crossout - every eg. 10th shot penetrates armor?


Will never happen in MWO.

Edited by Zergling, 05 May 2018 - 12:08 AM.


#22 theta123

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Posted 05 May 2018 - 12:07 AM

the RAC-5 is fine

The Rac-2 is pretty much garbage tough. They generate to much heat for their damage potential, and more then 2 creates massive heat buildup. 4 RAC 2's deal the same damage as 2 RAC-5's

I suggest removing ghost heat from the RAC-2's. And drop their heat a little bit

#23 lazorbeamz

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Posted 05 May 2018 - 02:02 AM

True. Rac5 are very nice. Rac 2 are pretty bad though. Need their damage increased.

RAC5 are 1 dps per ton. rac2 is only 0.7 dps per ton.

#24 Alexander of Macedon

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Posted 05 May 2018 - 04:46 AM

View PostRocket2Uranus, on 04 May 2018 - 05:55 PM, said:

Honestly RACs are good as they are. They need spin up time to adjust for the burst damage the have. Heats up to avoid them spamming it non stop.

If anything I think they should have more recoil/shake when fired. The longer you shoot the more shake there should be.

RACs are the opposite of burst damage. Their damage relies on them maintaining fire for 6+ seconds in a game where typical burst takes 0.5-2s to put downrange. The only weapons that are more pure DPS than RACs are AC/2s and MGs.

#25 Exilyth

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Posted 05 May 2018 - 08:11 AM

WHM w/3xRAC2, 4xML was nice back in the day - could keep the enemy from advancing as long as only one of them exposes at a time.

Nowadays, with Mad Cat II and similar stuff around, I don't think that build would do much anymore.

#26 Zergling

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Posted 05 May 2018 - 08:28 AM

View PostExilyth, on 05 May 2018 - 08:11 AM, said:

WHM w/3xRAC2, 4xML was nice back in the day - could keep the enemy from advancing as long as only one of them exposes at a time.

Nowadays, with Mad Cat II and similar stuff around, I don't think that build would do much anymore.


Uh, RACs were released at the same time as the Mad Cat II.

#27 Exilyth

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Posted 05 May 2018 - 01:50 PM

Quick question, what's the longest one or multiple RAC can fire before jamming
1) with none
2) with one
3) with both
skill tree nodes (no other quirks)?

View PostZergling, on 05 May 2018 - 08:28 AM, said:

Uh, RACs were released at the same time as the Mad Cat II.


Yeah, but back then all the 2nd-Kitties were still unskilled, both skill tree and player experience wise. Also people trying out civil war tech and all kinds of weird builds.

Edited by Exilyth, 05 May 2018 - 02:09 PM.


#28 Callsigntal0n

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Posted 05 May 2018 - 02:01 PM

I've seen a few people here point out rac2s as being useless I wholeheartedly disagree with the ghost heat moved so you can fire 3 at once I regularly get 500 dmg and 2 to 5 kills a game with a triple rac2 bushy 1x. In theory a 6 rac 2 kgc firing in 2 groups of three has enough sustained fps to chew anything to pieces same for a 6 rac 2 anni. I also have a rac 2 and a light peep on my urbie k9 and enjoy bullying assault mechs with the sustained screen shake of the rac2 while blinding them and plinking at range with the light peep. A meta build? Hell no. A fun build? Absolutely. The rac2s power is in carry three with enough dakka to effectively blind pilots while buzzsawing through armor and components. After all I solo killed an awesome on one match and a 6 ac2 mauler another match with the triple racwhacker build I mentioned earlier.

#29 Redwo1f

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Posted 05 May 2018 - 02:11 PM

Seriously DO THE TIME TO KILL test in testing grounds with them...forget overall damage, and see how quickly (or not) they are verses other ballistic. AC5 & UAC5> RAC5, AC2 & UAC2 > RAC2...dont take my word for it...go look for yourself. Test them in optimal ranges and do a time to kill timing. Critical potential plays a huge role...and throw in the spool up and cool down on the rac's, makes them far inferior.

Would you rather have the mech that spews lots of damage but doesn't kill that quickly, or take the one that can take down the enemy mechs quicker (be it with less damage delievered) everything else being equal? Consider this.

#30 LordNothing

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Posted 05 May 2018 - 02:45 PM

i think id unlink the jam mechanics so when you fire more than one you dont stack up the jam bar as fast. get rid of random jam (always jam when full), and make the bars take a wee bit longer to fill up. then raise the gh limits by one gun. then we might have something that is usable.

pgi was so afraid of making a super weapon that they gimped a lot of stuff they didnt need to. what they ended up with is a ballistic more noobier than the lbx. the lerms of the ballistic world.

Edited by LordNothing, 05 May 2018 - 02:47 PM.


#31 Destabilizator

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Posted 06 May 2018 - 02:54 AM

View PostLordNothing, on 05 May 2018 - 02:45 PM, said:

i think id unlink the jam mechanics so when you fire more than one you dont stack up the jam bar as fast. get rid of random jam (always jam when full), and make the bars take a wee bit longer to fill up. then raise the gh limits by one gun. then we might have something that is usable.


Isn't there 2x skill that prolongs the jam bar?

#32 LordNothing

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Posted 06 May 2018 - 03:07 AM

View PostDestabilizator, on 06 May 2018 - 02:54 AM, said:


Isn't there 2x skill that prolongs the jam bar?


there are but they dont make the weapon any more viable.

#33 Destabilizator

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Posted 06 May 2018 - 03:25 AM

View PostLordNothing, on 06 May 2018 - 03:07 AM, said:


there are but they dont make the weapon any more viable.


I see, am not that experienced in skills but 15% or what means 15% longer firing, if you don't jam in the middle that is...

Btw is there a way to get DEVs attention (tag?) to maybe learn what they think/telemetry tells them about RACs performance?

#34 Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood

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Posted 06 May 2018 - 04:43 AM

View PostDestabilizator, on 06 May 2018 - 03:25 AM, said:


I see, am not that experienced in skills but 15% or what means 15% longer firing, if you don't jam in the middle that is...

Btw is there a way to get DEVs attention (tag?) to maybe learn what they think/telemetry tells them about RACs performance?


PGI's usually not one for any sort of transparency with their userbase. A response would be rare.

#35 Destabilizator

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Posted 06 May 2018 - 06:39 AM

View PostChampion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 06 May 2018 - 04:43 AM, said:


PGI's usually not one for any sort of transparency with their userbase. A response would be rare.


Sad, guess I'm too spoiled from other titles :D

#36 Seranov

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Posted 06 May 2018 - 07:47 AM

View PostExilyth, on 05 May 2018 - 01:50 PM, said:

Quick question, what's the longest one or multiple RAC can fire before jamming
1) with none
2) with one
3) with both
skill tree nodes (no other quirks)?



Yeah, but back then all the 2nd-Kitties were still unskilled, both skill tree and player experience wise. Also people trying out civil war tech and all kinds of weird builds.


I mean, I've been running the MCII-B 2x UAC10 + 2x UAC5 build since literally the first day they came out (and reached #20 on the event for that variant) and I sure as hell didn't come up with that loadout. The 2x Gauss + 2 HLL/ERLL + 4 ERML build Deathstrike was also a thing from day 1, before most people decided to switch to just 6 ERML for less heat.

RACs were never good, and only recently have folks realized their only use is to be used alongside other ballistics for turbo-DPS against big, slow targets. There, they are mostly for psychological effect on top of the actually scary weapons they can be paired with, rather than their actual performance.

#37 Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood

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Posted 06 May 2018 - 08:40 AM

View PostSeranov, on 06 May 2018 - 07:47 AM, said:


I mean, I've been running the MCII-B 2x UAC10 + 2x UAC5 build since literally the first day they came out (and reached #20 on the event for that variant) and I sure as hell didn't come up with that loadout. The 2x Gauss + 2 HLL/ERLL + 4 ERML build Deathstrike was also a thing from day 1, before most people decided to switch to just 6 ERML for less heat.

RACs were never good, and only recently have folks realized their only use is to be used alongside other ballistics for turbo-DPS against big, slow targets. There, they are mostly for psychological effect on top of the actually scary weapons they can be paired with, rather than their actual performance.


In most of the turbo DPS loadouts the majority of the DPS comes from the dual RAC5s though, generally about 2/3s. The other weapons are mostly there to provide some damage during the spin up times and some frontloading. That said, 35 DPS builds rip through assaults pretty well.

#38 Seranov

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Posted 06 May 2018 - 08:51 AM

Eh, I don't really feel like that's the case. I've stared down 2x RAC5 users in LOTS of mechs with only minimal twisting and almost never had a problem unless their teammate showed up. I guess I haven't fought many 35 DPS Annis, though.

#39 Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood

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Posted 06 May 2018 - 09:28 AM

View PostSeranov, on 06 May 2018 - 08:51 AM, said:

Eh, I don't really feel like that's the case. I've stared down 2x RAC5 users in LOTS of mechs with only minimal twisting and almost never had a problem unless their teammate showed up. I guess I haven't fought many 35 DPS Annis, though.


I'm more surprised that I don't see them more commonly. Killing those high alpha mechs before they can get a second shot off is great.

#40 Khobai

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Posted 06 May 2018 - 11:35 AM

RAC2 needs more dps

RAC2 and RAC5 both need less heat

Also I think they should get rid of random jamming. Make RACs jam automatically when they reach the end of their bar. But also increase the duration they can fire before reaching the end of the bar.

That way youre always rewarded for using RACs responsibly and not jamming them up. Instead of being rewarded or punished randomly by the RNG gods.

Edited by Khobai, 06 May 2018 - 11:37 AM.






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