16 replies to this topic

[barnmaddo]

I've played several of the commando variants (1B, 2D, 3B) but the DPS just feels really weak. Most the weapons are in their arms, and the arms get shot off pretty regularly. About the only exceptional thing about this mech as far as I can tell is that it's really really small.

Some mechs I've looked at which have 6xLaser Hardpoints:
Jenner JR7-F I remember this being ridiculously strong when it first came out with amazing hitboxes.
Locust LCT-1E Looks very small. Like a Commando, with better hardpoints...
Arctic Cheetah ACH-Prime(C) ECM, JJ, 6xLasers, Decent size, but arms look easy to shoot off.

Any suggestions, on these three, or other light mechs you think I should consider? I play pretty aggressive and like flanking and harassing the larger mechs.

Edit:
Wolfhound WLF-GR Is highly rated on a list I saw. 5xLaser Hardpoints and an ECM.

Edited by barnmaddo, 26 March 2018 - 03:43 AM.

[Audacious Aubergine]

Don't have any experience with these personally but the Jenner is now much bigger than it used to be which means it's way easier to hit than those halcyon days of it being an absolute terror

[Old dirty B]

Locust ofcourse!

Locust LCT-1E and Locust LCT-PB are your best options as to variants..

Edited by Old dirty B, 26 March 2018 - 03:34 AM.

[Deeber]

Aggressive flanking in a light mech with lasers? From the Inner Sphere, certainly try the Locust, consider the Javelin, and maybe look at the Osiris. Of the IS 35-tonners, only the Wolfhound seems viable for this role currently, with its armour quirks. All the others, including the Jenner, are either not fast enough or not well-armoured enough to counterbalance their size. Some suggested variants: LCT-1E (6 hardpoints), LCT-3M (5), JVN-11A (7), OSR-4D (6), and WLF-2 (6). Consider the Pirates' Bane LCT-PB (4) and Grinner WLF-GR (5) hero mechs if you don't mind spending real money and would like ECM.

From the Clans, any of the Arctic Cheetahs should do the job with the appropriate omnipods, but they feel a bit less agile these days, to me at least. If you don't mind spending real money, the Piranha PIR-2 (15) comes to mind, but you'll be boating tiny lasers and watching your heat closely. Of the Clan 35-tonners, only the Jenner IIC is fast, but it's not fast enough to counterbalance its size.

[Steel Raven]

The Wolfhound has been my go to. Got a Arctic Cheetah during the sale, still prefer the Wolfhound.

[Eisenhorne]

If you want some good firepower, the JVN-10P is what I run. SRM2's recently got a buff for less heat generation, and it made this mech so much better.

Mine runs 6x SRM2 so it can pump out a volley every 2 seconds, and runs like 147 KPH after speed tweak. build is here: https://mwo.smurfy-n...d7e68586ea9991a

[Spheroid]

The Grinner and Jenner are junk.

Play a Cheetah or Crit Lynx. If you want a tanky mech I recommend the Urbanmech. Also you are completely wrong about the Commando, +10 arm structure is a very substantial increase especially if you double down in the survival tree.

Edited by Spheroid, 27 March 2018 - 09:31 AM.

[AttendingMonk1]

Here's a list of lights to consider (and those to avoid) and why:

• Adder/Cougar*: These are very similar mechs in their loadout options. The Cougar is slower but offers slightly more pod tonnage and ECM. Both can carry a larger ballistic with laser backup or missiles for main firepower. Alternatively, they can both do high alpha clan laservomit. These are more like Assault lights, high firepower but light armor and slowish speed. They could be what you're looking for as both can make good flankers and decent midrange harassers, however these are not your normal lights and may not be for you yet.
  
• Arctic Cheetah E: The cheetah is a good clan mech. Like the Mist Lynx, this variant's main firepower is going to be from machine guns. 6 MGs and 2 or 3 heavy medium lasers depending on if you want to break So8 for ECM, this mech is faster than a Mist Lynx and similar in firepower. I've been running this one as of late. My thoughts on it compared to the Mist Lynx are as follows: I appreciate the greater raw speed and better lasers, but I much prefer my Mist Lynx A's shield arm. The high energy mounts make for great poking and the thin arms seem harder to hit. In addition, this thing can tank an exorbitant amount of damage after losing the arms. It's sad to see the MGs destroyed, but without the arms, damage just seems to roll everywhere. Expect to commonly get down to 25% or less before dying almost every time (unless you get dual gaussed in the leg early on, bad times).
  
• Firestarter*: Currently I would avoid these. They can carry a great amount of energy weapons and be quite deadly, but currently they are suffering from the days when they were heavily feared by PGI. The agility stats on these are terrible for a light. They can be quite tanky, even with their size, and the Ember offers a nice MG option. If you want to try your hand at these one day, I'd go with the Ember (or upcoming Firestorm depending on quirks), but for now, avoid.
  
• Javelin 10P: My personal favorite among the Javelins. As mentioned, load it up with 6 SRM2s, max engine, some ammo, and maybe a jump jet or 3 depending on your preference. With the SRM2 heat buff, this mech is no longer infamously hot. This thing fires a 25.8 alpha at an alarmingly fast rate. Personally, if you're going to pick a Javelin, pick this one, it shreds things very quickly. The 11A, the energy one, has its uses, but for raw firepower, you're probably going to want this one.
  
• Jenner*: Unless you like being to big for your own good and having horrible hitboxes, this is not your mech. It's not durable like the Wolfhound at all, it trades hitboxes and armor for raw agility. For some, it's the 35 tonner they always wanted, handling like a dream with the option for jump jets, for others (and possibly most), it's a fast deathtrap, nothing more. While I do not own this mech, I have played it, and currently, I would not recommend this unless you want to spend most of your time seeing how good you are at juking shots vs spreading damage.
  
• Jenner IIC*: Take the IS Jenner, hitboxes and all, and add clan firepower! This thing runs, it flies, and it dies. Unlike the IS Jenner, it can at least take an extreme amount of firepower. If you want a fragile, but powerful, backstabber that is too big to go unnoticed, this is your mech. I wouldn't recommend this one until you get other lights and just want to play with some crazy clan SRM splat. I do not own this mech, however some people run this with great results, however, I would currently not recommend this mech to you. If you want SRM splat, start with the Javelin.
  
• Kitfox C: This is the ultimate support mech. 3 AMS, ECM, 3 medpulse, and 4 LMGs. This is more of a support flanker than a solo flanker or wolf packer. Stick with your fatties providing ECM and AMS coverage then, when the time is right, use those med pulses to open components and use the LMGs to crit out weapons. As a kitfox, you're neither the fastest nor the strongest, but you can offer a support role that no other mech can quite fill. If you ever want to just stick with the fatties and flank when they flank, or be the bait that lures an enemy to a fatal turn, this is your mech.
  
• Locust 3M: The 3M is much better than the 1E. While it has 1 less hardpoint, the 20% cooldown quirk it receives makes the 5 lasers act like the 1E's 6 lasers in terms of DPS and nets you extra tonnage with the saved laser. If you can bear having one CT energy instead of all arms like the 1E, it's the better choice. Locusts are very small and highly agile, get skills in mobility and you can get a wonderful harasser. Options include Small pulse lasers, medium lasers, or a combination of medium pulse and small class lasers.
  
• Locust PB: The Pirate's Bane is a wonderful harasser and flanker. It takes the small size and high agility of the Locust and throws in ECM with the option of stealth armor. 4 medium lasers and two machine guns plus stealth armor make this a great backstabber as well. You can ditch the MGs for AMS if you desire, but I prefer them for critting open components when behind an enemy. The stealth armor is useful for ensuring that you stay untargetable up close or can be used to escape missile lock when needed.
  
• Mist Lynx G: The crit lynx, as Spheroid called it, is a fun mech. While not the fastest, it has plenty of jump jets and firepower. It strips weapons and destroys open components very quickly. The MGs are complemented by a small, but punchy, group of lasers used to open up components for the machine guns. You can keep the set of 8 bonuses or break them in favor of having the MLX-A right arm. The A right arm has 2 less ballistic in favor of 24 more armor and a 15% Machine Gun RoF quirk. This makes the now 6, instead of 8, machine guns act like 6.9 machine guns. You are essentially dropping 1 machine gun in favor of having a shield arm. The A arm has more armor and if lost, means you only lose out on one third of your machine gun firepower instead of the half that you would lose with the G right arm.
  
• Osiris 3D*: I personally do not own one yet, and as such, please take this particular bit of advice with a grain of salt. The 3D stands out to me from the other Osiris variants because of its asymmetrical build options. Unless you desire multiple missiles, I would personally choose this Osiris variant. It's asymmetrical options means that you can deadside if you do not take a missile. If you decide to take a missile, this variant offers a nice cooldown quirk for such a case. It is like the 2V, only an asymmetrical version, and at the cost of one energy, comes with the option of two quirked machine guns that the 4D cannot offer.
  
• Panther*: The Panthers offer PPC harassment on the 10K and the 9R if you want a longer ranged harasser. The 10P also offers a heavily quirked Ac2 harassment option should you want ballistics and the 8Z offers a Large laser harassment option. I also do not think these are what you're looking for, but I could be wrong.
  
• Raven: The raven offers multiple options that may interest you in the future. While many know of the er large ECM 3L, the other ravens have interesting build options. The 4X can do a RAC5 build should you desire ballistics, while both it and the 2X, depending on your quirk preference, can offer an oddly satisfying MRM30 and two medium laser build. If that build interests you, it requires an XL 255 engine as well as stripping the head and empty arm. While not the most conventional build or the fastest, it can offer a rather fun and effective MRM build on a light mech. The Huginn is a known brawler light, if you have the MC and that interests you, it is covered by others far better than I could hope to do at this moment, as I do not personally have a Huginn.
  
• Spider*:This little light mech is certainly not the best around, the 5K is vastly outgunned by clan MG boats, the 5V has a mere 2 energy hardpoints both located in the CT, and the Anansi lacks any boating options even for a light mech when considering boating. However, they have a use should you desire to try your hand at these. The 5D can act like a flying Raven 3L (though I don't think that's what you're after), the 5V can act like a flying snubnosed PPC locust (should you like a mech you can always run around in), and the 5K is a more durable locust 1V. Personally, I don't think the spiders are what you're after.
  
• Urbanmech R63: The urbanmech is a very tough little trashcan. A combination of small size, great hitboxes, and large armor quirks make this most likely the tankiest light mech. Traveling along at a humble 97.2 KPH with max engine (over 100 with speed tweak), this mech is not the fastest, but is still rather superb. It can take a reasonable amount of jump jets as well. I prefer the R63 over the other non heroes because of its balanced loadout and energy cooldown quirk. I personally prefer 3 medium pulse lasers and 3 machine guns. It has the tonnage for BAP or AMS with a max light fusion engine if you would like to bring along some support equipment. One thing of note, unless you are taking a large ballistic (best done on the K9), you should not be using an XL engine. The urbanmech is very tanky and that should be heavily relied on. As such, I recommend only LFE or Standard engines if you can.
  
• Wolfhound*: The wolfhound is a superb light mech. While being rather large, it has a shield arm and very good hitboxes along with moderate armor quirks. Most of the wolfhounds are similar, and as such, I will list my thoughts on the ones I would pick. First and foremost, the Grinner is by far the one I would choose personally. As a light mech who wants to mainly flank and harass, ECM will aid you greatly in that task. However, that costs MC, so there are other options as well. For maximum speed, the 1 can carry the largest engine. I highly recommend making a prebuild in the in-store mechlab to ensure that you have enough tonnage for what you want to do should you take max engine. The 1A can carry 6 energy, and unlike the 2, has only 1 in the right arm. The 1A would make a fine option should you absolutely want a 6 energy wolfhound (although the 2 can be chosen should you prefer the double arm energy and more torso armor at the cost of arm armor). Finally, last but not least, my pick among the cbill variants, the 1B. The 1B has an energy cooldown quirk, making it possibly the best choice for 5 medpulse if quick, short DPS engagements are desired. It also has the ability to take 2 AMS systems which are heavily quirked in range should you desire incorporating a support role in your wolfhound.

*Mechs that I currently own no variants of. This does necessarily mean that I have never played them, but that I currently own none. Take the comments on these mechs with a grain of salt, as others who play them extensively are far more qualified than me to comment on them

I know this is a wall of text, but I wanted to answer your question fully, if possible, as well as provide a bulleted comparison of the options.

Peace and Blessings,
Monk

[Old dirty B]

Your “theory” about the Locust 3M > 1E is incorrect. While the 3M has indeed a hardpoint less which is compensated by a lower cooldown. A lower cooldown also means less time to dissapate heat so that additional heatsink is actually meeded to more or less break even in that regard or at the least insignificant difference.

Also both variants have similar dps but that only is important when you fire at the max rate. As soon as your rate drops because you need additional time to manoevre or aim, the dps becomes less important and the allha strike more.

Lastly, as you also mentioned, the one torso mounted weapon also means a higher chance that less of the possible danage is inflicted because arma and torso do not align all the time.

Considering all the above, i believe the 1E is the best variant with the PB as a close second, the 3M os the third best variant with everything else at a greater distance.

[AttendingMonk1]

The 3M with 5 medium lasers and one heatsink will run cooler than the 1E with 6 medium lasers and no additional heatsinks. Because of the cooldown quirk, they have similar default DPS and HPS (heat per second). However, the 3M can use the saved tonnage for an additional heatsink. I pointed out out that if you can bear the CT energy, it is a better choice. You pointed out alphas. In some situations, an alpha is better, in others, firing faster is better. With a skirmishing role in mind, 5 more damage may not be as useful as firing another salvo faster and fleeing. Each has their use, the 3M for cooler running DPS and the 1E for hotter alpha and hide, but I'm not wrong in my pointing out that it will run cooler.
Some math since you don't believe me:

Default medium laser values: Damage: 5 Heat: 3.4 Cooldown: 3.5 Duration: 0.9
Formula used for calculating DPS: (Damage*Number of lasers)/(Cooldown+Duration)
Formula used for calculating HPS: (Heat*Number of lasers)/(Cooldown+Duration)

1E: DPS: 6.8182 HPS: 4.6364

3M: DPS: 6.7568 HPS: 4.5946

As you can see, they have similar DPS and HPS without the extra heatsink. The 3M's extra heatsink brings its total heat dissipation per second to 2 vs the 1E's 1.85. This is an 8.1% cooling efficiency increase over the 1E, not including the additional 1.5 additional heat cap or slightly lower default HPS.

I find the cooler running 3M to suit my personal tastes, as if you are constantly firing, you will get hot quickly, and additional cooling is worth it in my opinion. Once again, they both have their uses, but if you are constantly firing and not just poking and hiding for longer than your laser's cooldown, the 3M will be the better choice if you can stand the CT hardpoint. In addition, the 3M is better, because of cooldown, should you choose to run less than 5 lasers. An example includes a medium pulse and small laser build.

As to my preference of Locusts, the Pirates' Bane is my first choice as ECM is useful for the team and for skirmishing.

Peace and Blessings,
Monk

[Old dirty B]

Thanks for responding with argumente and so extensively!

I agree with you as far as dps and hps and even the increased dissapation.But for one thing which you seem to have overlooked, the increased dissapation seems an advantage over the 1E’s but it also has less time to dissapate because of the lower cooldown (quirck). While the dissapation is higher it hass less time to do so, in the end this will more or less break even with the 1E.

Calculation heat dissapation (cooldown*quirck) * heat dissapation:
1E (no quirck thus 1.0) is 3.4 * 1.0 * 1.85 = 6.29 heat dissaption untill next fire
3M (0.8 quirck) is 3.4 * 0.8 * 2.0 = 5.44 heat dissaption untill next fire

As you already pointed out:
both have similar dps (the 1E has a very slight edge)
both have similar hps (the 3M has a very slight edge)
both have similar heat dissapation (the 1E has actually a slight edge)

Only real difference is the higher alpha of the 1E and torso hardpoint for the 3M.

Do you agrer or did i overlook something?

Old dirty

[Old dirty B]

I think i overlooked something, you already recalculated the heat to heat per second which can then be used with the dissapation to see how much heat it builds up. I wrongly recalculated the heat dissapation.

In theory / in lab i agree with you the 3M runs cooler then the 1E with similar dps. This however is only true when both are fires at the absolute max rate. When that rate drops the 1E will not only have a higher dps because of the higher alpha but also the difference in heat build up is getting smaller.

Most likely i have a different playstyle as yours, you seem to run the medium lasers propably firing with a little bit of range. I mostly run knifefighter builds with small pulses. The small pulse have already a very low cooldown making it hard to fire acturately at the max rate - moving around and dodging also takes some time that messes up aligning the shots. In this case the cooling difference cannot be utilised to its full effect...
I can see its use for a more ranged build where you fire at occupied enemies without having to move much - keeping that rate up and thus needs more cooling.

Old dirty

[Black Lanner]

Edited by Black Lanner, 29 March 2018 - 11:42 AM.

[Ithilid]

Get an Urbie... just in time for the Easter event

[Squiggy McPew]

K9 urbie is cheap and a ton of fun with max survival tree armour boosts and a 5 med pulse setup.




You can even zombie it for the cost of a single sink which is nice.

Edited by 120mm, 29 March 2018 - 01:30 PM.

[barnmaddo]

Well I've been playing the Wolfhound: Grinner and so far it's miserable. Used to play as a Commando and that mech felt almost invulnerable to enemy fire, while the Grinner seems to have bigger hit boxes than a medium mech.

In theory the MPL's put out more damage, but that's only if you're at point blank range, which is a death sentence for a mech this large and poorly armored. Unless the enemy team is just going to ignore you while you shoot them in the back.

Maybe it will be better once I have enough skill points for some heat management stuff.

Edited by barnmaddo, 15 April 2018 - 01:52 AM.

[AaronWolf]

Even though this topic is a bit old and the last post has been awhile; I can definitely suggest the LCT if you wanna go-fast and have some good 'pew pew' for your size/speed.

Personally I would say the PB, 1V and 1M are my favs. PB gets the highest point here because...ECM + SML Pulse + Machinegunes = HAHAHAHA YOU BETTER WATCH YOUR BACK.

Ravens may be a good choice in the future for you as well. The Huginn and 4X are my favorite "Solo" drop mechs for their missile and ballistic firepower, and the 3L is my go-to-spotter. The Huginn is also surprisingly tanky, especially if you get the perks to support it that way.