291 replies to this topic

[DGTLDaemon]

kapusta11, on 11 May 2018 - 11:12 PM, said:

Yeah, people are overreacting. My Deathstrike build is not changing at all, 2 Gauss, 2 ERLL, 4 ERML same 80 damage alpha. My mech with highest avg damage, Hellbringer, will swap 2 HLL for 2 ERLL/LPL, more heat efficient and less duration, still 50/52 damage for just 12/16 tons and 46.8/45.2 heat per alpha with 25/23 DHS.

Lights and mediums that used to run 5-6 ERMLs/MPLs will be hit the hardest, this nerf will reduce the alpha of some builds by as much as 1/3, which is extreme no matter how you look at it. There will be some casualties in the heavier weight categories, too. Most notably, Marauder IICs and Supernovas with 2xLPL+6xMPL will cease to exist. Nova Cats will be a lot less attractive because you won't be able to do much with those energy hardpoints anymore. Interestingly, TBR-A with 2xLPL+4xMPL+TC1 will not be affected, while Nova Cat with 2xLPL+5xMPL+TC1 is now officially dead - and based on my experience, I would not say that the Nova Cat was clearly the superior one of the two. On the contrary, I'd rather play my Timby with 1 less MPL, but much better mobility.

Also, there will be some weird impact on mixed builds. For example, let's take a look at MAD-IIC-A with 3xUAC5+4xMPL vs. MAD-IIC-C with 2xUAC10+5xERML. I have extensive experience with both builds, and I would say they perform roughly on the same level. However, after the lastest nerf, the MAD-IIC-A build will remain unaffected while the MAD-IIC-C build will not be viable anymore. Go figure

Oh yeah, and Deathstrike with 2xGauss+6xERML is now also dead, but I assume there's already a long line of IS players waiting for their turn to piss on its grave...

[Appogee]

Bud Crue, on 11 May 2018 - 08:14 PM, said:

Paul stated in one of the various podcast/twitch/NGNG thingies a couple months ago that the primary goal of PGI's balance efforts is to increase TTK.

But that's exactly what he's achieving...

* make stupid changes.
* players log off in disgust.
* fewer players in the queue.
* TTK successfully increased!

It's genius.

[Kroete]

Khobai, on 11 May 2018 - 11:28 PM, said:

.... , and forces players to completely relearn the game as well as relearn muscle memory skills

Learn to use more then one button point and click?

Hope that will not overtax some of our players!

[kenosha]

How about you get rid of strikes before nerfing basic weapons?

[Riitters]

I like the amount of people defending this with their tier hidden. It's not even ******* hard to gain PSR on a loss.

[kapusta11]

DGTLDaemon, on 11 May 2018 - 11:30 PM, said:

Lights and mediums that used to run 5-6 ERMLs/MPLs will be hit the hardest, this nerf will reduce the alpha of some builds by as much as 1/3, which is extreme no matter how you look at it. There will be some casualties in the heavier weight categories, too. Most notably, Marauder IICs and Supernovas with 2xLPL+6xMPL will cease to exist. Nova Cats will be a lot less attractive because you won't be able to do much with those energy hardpoints anymore. Interestingly, TBR-A with 2xLPL+4xMPL+TC1 will not be affected, while Nova Cat with 2xLPL+5xMPL+TC1 is now officially dead - and based on my experience, I would not say that the Nova Cat was clearly the superior one of the two. On the contrary, I'd rather play my Timby with 1 less MPL, but much better mobility.

Also, there will be some weird impact on mixed builds. For example, let's take a look at MAD-IIC-A with 3xUAC5+4xMPL vs. MAD-IIC-C with 2xUAC10+5xERML. I have extensive experience with both builds, and I would say they perform roughly on the same level. However, after the lastest nerf, the MAD-IIC-A build will remain unaffected while the MAD-IIC-C build will not be viable anymore. Go figure

Oh yeah, and Deathstrike with 2xGauss+6xERML is now also dead, but I assume there's already a long line of IS players waiting for their turn to piss on its grave...

Well, maybe if you want greater than 30 damage alpha you should spend more actual tonnage on your weapons, you know, like IS mechs do instead of slaping 6 tons worth of lasers for 42 damage and calling it a day.

Edited by kapusta11, 11 May 2018 - 11:48 PM.

[STEF_]

kapusta11, on 11 May 2018 - 11:12 PM, said:

Yeah, people are overreacting. My Deathstrike build is not changing at all, 2 Gauss, 2 ERLL, 4 ERML same 80 damage alpha. My mech with highest avg damage, Hellbringer, will swap 2 HLL for 2 ERLL/LPL, more heat efficient and less duration, still 50/52 damage for just 12/16 tons and 46.8/45.2 heat per alpha with 25/23 DHS.

No they are not overreacting.

Can you suggest good builds for Marauders, Hunchies, Supernovas, ALL with a lot of E hardpoints AND without pods to switch?

Thanks.

[Riitters]

kapusta11, on 11 May 2018 - 11:47 PM, said:

Well, maybe if you want greater than 30 damage alpha you should spend more actual tonnage on your weapons, you know, like IS mechs do instead of slaping 6 tons worth of lasers for 42 damage and calling it a day.

Christ have you ever played a clan mech? Do you know what it's like to have to wait as long as we do in between medium laser volleys?
Do you know what it's like to alpha eight mpls and generate less heat than 6erml, because balance is so goddamn off after attempted nerfs?

[Monkey Lover]

Grus, on 11 May 2018 - 10:57 PM, said:

Big hammer... This is population control..

Think about it. Clam laz is getting neutered, yet we get no sort of buffs ( no give and take )

Yet IS is getting a buff to rac2 and banchee and a slight adjustment to the ANH...

Now that a shot tonne of clan builds won't work a good portion of clan might just look across the fence and say well.. not much I need to worry about over there...

Truth is the player population hasn't really changed. What has changed is unit and team play. Pgi has constantly hurt team play. Im guessing this is beause new pugs pay more money for mechs then get bored and go away.


Over all they will buff lasers after this patch. You old people should know this. They go over board and back it off.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

kapusta11, on 11 May 2018 - 11:47 PM, said:

Well, maybe if you want greater than 30 damage alpha you should spend more actual tonnage on your weapons, you know, like IS mechs do instead of slaping 6 tons worth of lasers for 42 damage and calling it a day.

You know even without this nerf IS laser vomit builds do more damage per tick than Clan ones, have much lower cooldowns (allowing higher burst damage in certain situations), have better damage to heat ratios, and could out trade Clan laser builds if the pilot took advantage of their shorter duration and just torso twisted a bit. Now Clan has lower maximum alpha so the IS mech doesn't even have to twist to win, infact IS can just stare at the poor sucker now and shoot him to death. Much like IS currently can do in faction play with high health spam waves that can just walk on into a generator while the defending Clanners can't muster the DPS to kill them.

Monkey Lover, on 12 May 2018 - 12:30 AM, said:

Truth is the player population hasn't really changed. What has changed is unit and team play. Pgi has constantly hurt team play. Im guessing this is beause new pugs pay more money for mechs then get bored and go away.


Over all they will buff lasers after this patch. You old people should know this. They go over board and back it off.

They still haven't buffed back CSPLs after taking 1/3rd of their damage, I'm doubting they'll buff ERMLs after taking away 1/3 that you can fire.

[Monkey Lover]

Stefka Kerensky, on 11 May 2018 - 11:48 PM, said:

No they are not overreacting.

Can you suggest good builds for Marauders, Hunchies, Supernovas, ALL with a lot of E hardpoints AND without pods to switch?

Thanks.

same builds now, just use two buttons ? : P

Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 12 May 2018 - 12:31 AM, said:

They still haven't buffed back CSPLs after taking 1/3rd of their damage, I'm doubting they'll buff ERMLs after taking away 1/3 that you can fire.

Pgi will kill a weapons system thats true. It has happen over and over. But when they do a Clan or IS nerf most the time they back it off on the next patch.

They will do something like increasing erm to 6 and decrease the cool down on the others.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 12 May 2018 - 12:36 AM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Mcgral18, on 11 May 2018 - 09:30 PM, said:

Now, the question is whether that's due to "EVERYONE GETS TIER 1" oprah meme, or because veteran players are leaving
I know my play has heavily decreased, because the mechs I used to enjoy are kinda shite now.

Between low quality gameplay and every single fun option that pops up getting nerfed for no good reason I don't play this game all too much anymore. I can't get friends to play it either, they find it is now too boring too. I used to be able to do things like get an Executioner, load up with 2 LPL and 6 CSPLs and go on flanking missions, surprising people with a 95 ton assault mech, but then Executioner's mobility gets trashed, LPLs lose range and damage, CSPLs lose loads of damage, skill tree comes out making everyone have way more health, flanking isn't viable with it, you shoot a guy in the back and oh well he has 100+ structure and you don't even deal 50 damage anymore.

A whole lot of depth has been lost as skill continuously is removed from the equation. They've nerfed being stealthy and tactical significantly through "raising TTK" through the roofs when mechs survive full alphas to the rear, they've nerfed active defense by throwing torso twist speeds under the bus, they've nerfed accuracy by requiring more and more of it in laser durations and cutting out many PPFLD builds.

It really seems the only thing that matters much anymore is just sitting there and out tanking and out DPSing your enemy or just being able to win trades with him at a statistical level. I realize in Solaris sitting in Div1 with Annihilator up at the top simply plowing through enemies with 2 RAC5s and 4 AC2s as they can't torso twist away a constant stream of damage coming to them and all I have to do to win is W+M1 that this game has finally succeeded in nerfing the thinking man out of this shooter.

Quickplay is nothing more than hoping your team doesn't fold on you before you can live long enough to pew a few guys standing out in the open. Good old cave pushes of years ago aren't a thing anymore. Patch after patch PGI says they do things in order to raise TTK but they fail at it every time, only removing more and more playstyles and often times lowering TTK (mobility nerf, rescale that made lights bigger rather than assaults smaller) for people who were actively trying to defend themselves, as nothing short of removing weapons from the game would save those who don't try.

[DGTLDaemon]

Monkey Lover, on 12 May 2018 - 12:34 AM, said:

same builds now, just use two buttons ? : P

Won't help. Burn time on Clan lasers is already quite long, which, combined with less durability compared to IS mechs and the mobility nerfs introduced with/after engine desync, makes it difficult to trade with IS laser vomit mechs of similar tonnage unless you clearly outrange them. Staggering fire will simply leave you exposed for too long. And it seems that PGI are currently balancing faction tech around the idea that Clan mechs are supposed to peek and poke rather than stay exposed and facetank the enemies.

[Monkey Lover]

DGTLDaemon, on 12 May 2018 - 12:43 AM, said:

Won't help. Burn time on Clan lasers is already quite long, which, combined with less durability compared to IS mechs and the mobility nerfs introduced with/after engine desync, makes it difficult to trade with IS laser vomit mechs of similar tonnage unless you clearly outrange them. Staggering fire will simply leave you exposed for too long. And it seems that PGI are currently balancing faction tech around the idea that Clan mechs are supposed to peek and poke rather than stay exposed and facetank the enemies.

So how are all these people playing with ac weapons when you can't be exposed for a extra half a second?

90% of the people i fight anymore dont even twist when i shoot at them.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 12 May 2018 - 12:53 AM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Monkey Lover, on 12 May 2018 - 12:50 AM, said:

So how are all these people playing with ac weapons when you can't be exposed for a extra half a second?

Because ACs have shorter facetime than lasers and with an AC based PPFLD build you don't have to expose yourself for a full half second to do your damage. Personally I prefer the Dragon with dual HPPCs, blows other heavies out of the water by being more agile than a majority of mediums and more durable than the most durable Clan heavy mech available (the Orion IIC) while having hitboxes that allow you to not take any CT damage when twisting. Overall top tier mech.

Monkey Lover, on 12 May 2018 - 12:50 AM, said:

90% of the people i fight anymore dont even twist when i shoot at them.

Sad.

[Appogee]

kenosha, on 11 May 2018 - 11:41 PM, said:

How about you get rid of strikes before nerfing basic weapons?

More likely they will introduce a CBill cost every time we fire our lasers.

[BTGbullseye]

Monkey Lover, on 12 May 2018 - 12:50 AM, said:

90% of the people i fight anymore dont even twist when i shoot at them.

Your T5 matches shouldn't limit the rest of us.

[DGTLDaemon]

Appogee, on 12 May 2018 - 01:09 AM, said:

More likely they will introduce a CBill cost every time we fire our lasers.

Or a C-Bill consumable that will let you override the ghost heat limit for a certain period of time

(For those who have a hard time reading sarcasm and irony - no, I'm NOT actually advocating something like that )

[Monkey Lover]

Riitters, on 11 May 2018 - 11:44 PM, said:

I like the amount of people defending this with their tier hidden. It's not even ******* hard to gain PSR on a loss.

I was a tier 1 few weeks after we got the new system. I hid mine because i dont believe we should judge people's opinions by their xp bar.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 12 May 2018 - 01:31 AM.

[STEF_]

Monkey Lover, on 12 May 2018 - 01:30 AM, said:

I was a tier 1 few weeks after we got the new system. I hid mine because i dont believe we should judge people's opinions by their xp bar.

yea, but .... what about IS having better laservomit now?

That's not how to solve IS/Clan weapon balance.
Wanna solve that? Then nerf weapons, adjust values, NOT add GH to those.