68 replies to this topic

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Solely laserboating is now totally dead for Clans.

Note that in the new patch Clans can fire 4 ERML/MPL before ghost heat, 3 HML, or just one single HLL.

This means total laser alpha for Clan is 52 with 4 ERML and 2LPL. This means that Clans now have a LOWER damage alpha than IS while still having longer durations, less efficient damage:heat ratios. This takes quite a few Clan mechs right out of the loop, and looks like it will solidify the current rise of Lasers+Gauss. Speaking of which, the Mad Cat MK2 flagship of lasers+gauss took a nerf this patch.


Just in time for the Blood Asp that can run 4 ERML+2LPL+2Gauss+ECM and be new Clan metamech.


Read patchnotes for context.

Edited by Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, 11 May 2018 - 03:48 PM.

[Vanguard836]

Really not happy about those changes

[blood4blood]

I think I like this line from the new map description even better than the obvious Would-you-like-to-buy-a-mechpak?-play: "While far from unplayable, it's not performing at a consistent level of acceptable norms." And a link for the lazy: https://mwomercs.com...5th-patch-notes

[Vonbach]

Vanguard836, on 11 May 2018 - 03:52 PM, said:

Really not happy about those changes

I am.

[Battlemaster56]

Well it doesn't seems like it hurt the standard heavy laser vomit as it typical 2lpl/hll and 4erml, but what baffles me is why nerfing hml they already bad as it is seeing hsl are better option in close range and when did anyone take more than 4 hml since you can't do five without gh kicking in.

Also I wonder when was hll gh limit was three? I thought it was two like every large class laser.

Still not effecting laser vomit unless I missing they linking large and medium clan lasers to curve clan laser vomit.

[Seranov]

Man, I haven't played a laserboat in months. I honestly could care less. The big problem now is that literally all Clan options are clunky.

[Cnaiur]

Ghost heat limit of 3 means you could fire 2 or 1 without ghost heat, just like every other clan large laser. Post patch, mechs will only be able to fire one single Heavy Large Laser without triggering ghost heat. It’s a pretty big nerf to some of the strongest clan mechs.

[Vxheous]

Battlemaster56, on 11 May 2018 - 04:10 PM, said:

Well it doesn't seems like it hurt the standard heavy laser vomit as it typical 2lpl/hll and 4erml, but what baffles me is why nerfing hml they already bad as it is seeing hsl are better option in close range and when did anyone take more than 4 hml since you can't do five without gh kicking in.

Also I wonder when was hll gh limit was three? I thought it was two like every large class laser.

Still not effecting laser vomit unless I missing they linking large and medium clan lasers to curve clan laser vomit.

PGI worded it poorly, GH kicks in at 3 heavy large lasers before, so now you can only fire 1 (because gbost heat kicks in at 2)

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Battlemaster56, on 11 May 2018 - 04:10 PM, said:

Well it doesn't seems like it hurt the standard heavy laser vomit as it typical 2lpl/hll and 4erml, but what baffles me is why nerfing hml they already bad as it is seeing hsl are better option in close range and when did anyone take more than 4 hml since you can't do five without gh kicking in.

Also I wonder when was hll gh limit was three? I thought it was two like every large class laser.

Still not effecting laser vomit unless I missing they linking large and medium clan lasers to curve clan laser vomit.

Standard was generally 2HLL and 6 ERML for people trying to win trades, with 2HLL+4ERML (64 damage) you only get 7 points over general IS laser vomit (57 damage), which is FAR lower damage per tick while 2HLL+6ERML cuts it down to being very slightly lower damage per tick.

Now even 2HLL+4ERML isn't an option and you'd have to move to 2LPL which is only 52 damage, which is once again lower than IS laser vomit that is now going to be better in every way except for range (assuming no quirks here).

Note that they say heat penalty started at 3 previously, meaning the limit was 2, now it starts at 2 meaning the limit is 1.

[FupDup]

Vxheous, on 11 May 2018 - 04:18 PM, said:

PGI worded it poorly, GH kicks in at 3 heavy large lasers before, so now you can only fire 1 (because gbost heat kicks in at 2)

They word it that way because that's how it's displayed in the Weapons.XML file. But yeah, I'm not sure why they chose to code it that way.

[Battlemaster56]

Vxheous, on 11 May 2018 - 04:18 PM, said:

PGI worded it poorly, GH kicks in at 3 heavy large lasers before, so now you can only fire 1 (because gbost heat kicks in at 2)

Ok was pondering on that to long.

Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 11 May 2018 - 04:18 PM, said:

Standard was generally 2HLL and 6 ERML for people trying to win trades, with 2HLL+4ERML (64 damage) you only get 7 points over general IS laser vomit (57 damage), which is FAR lower damage per tick while 2HLL+6ERML cuts it down to being very slightly lower damage per tick.

Now even 2HLL+4ERML isn't an option and you'd have to move to 2LPL which is only 52 damage, which is once again lower than IS laser vomit that is now going to be better in every way except for range (assuming no quirks here).

Note that they say heat penalty started at 3 previously, meaning the limit was 2, now it starts at 2 meaning the limit is 1.

Welp I'm dropping alot builds for lpl and shelving other mechs now seeing that this with more clarity this is another heavy swinging nerf that really didn't such a hammer but a knife mostly on the hll, and really the other clan options suck or not on par dakka is just not strong as it use to be, erppc is niche upon a few mechs that can excel, gauss is dependent on laser vomit to bring out it fullest potential..

But yeah alot of shelving a reorganizing is need to be done.

[Andi Nagasia]

im willing to see how this all pans out,
im hopeful that the HLL will only get +4-6 extra heat much like 2xMRM40,
allowing them to still be used as a Pair of HLL just not with all the ERML back up,

everything else in the Patch Notes looked good though,

Edit-
also remember everyone,
IS = 6xERML + 2LL = 48Damge, 41Heat, 16Tons,
Clan = 4xERML + 2LPL = 52Damge, 45.2Heat, 16Tons,
-
Clan also Enjoy better heat dissipation, usually carrying double the DHS IS can,
also the Damage per Tic that clan has is the same as IS(1.22Dam/Tic for both ERLLs)

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 11 May 2018 - 04:49 PM.

[Luminis]

So... I'm not opposed to nerfing Clan Laser Vomit because it was a little too good, but cutting the damage to six would've done the trick. This is heavy handed and the Mechs that get hit the hardest aren't the ones that were dominating. Dunno.

Upside is, we'll see change, which is good, at this point.

******* hell, it's harder to stay positive than I want to admit.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Andi Nagasia, on 11 May 2018 - 04:38 PM, said:

im willing to see how this all pans out,
im hopeful that the HLL will only get +4-6 extra heat much like 2xMRM40,
allowing them to still be used as a Pair of HLL just not with all the ERML back up,

everything else in the Patch Notes looked good though,

Glad I never decided to swap my Shadow Cat from dual LPL to dual HLL. Though even the two LPL it has are nerfed from what they used to be. May actually go to dual ERPPC now that their cooldown has been so nerfed that they run cold now. Oh wait, I'll just go get a Hellspawn and play it like a Shadow Cat but with better equipment.

Luminis, on 11 May 2018 - 04:43 PM, said:

So... I'm not opposed to nerfing Clan Laser Vomit because it was a little too good, but cutting the damage to six would've done the trick. This is heavy handed and the Mechs that get hit the hardest aren't the ones that were dominating. Dunno.

Upside is, we'll see change, which is good, at this point.

******* hell, it's harder to stay positive than I want to admit.

Its the CSPL all over again, gets cut to 2/3s damage, gets left useless.

Edited by Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, 11 May 2018 - 04:45 PM.

[Antares102]

RIP clam laser vomit.

[Jackal Noble]

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[MechaBattler]

Vxheous, on 11 May 2018 - 04:18 PM, said:

PGI worded it poorly, GH kicks in at 3 heavy large lasers before, so now you can only fire 1 (because gbost heat kicks in at 2)

Yeah, that wording had me scratching my head.

[Kanil]

Not sure how often I'll ever want to use a single HLL.

[FireStoat]

I use a MAD IIC (S) with two large pulse and 6 ER mediums and it wasn't offending anyone really. Clan assaults largely don't have the armor quirks or mobility quirks that IS has so range is your main game, and even then it's not as effective as the current Cyclops / Annihilator meta. So now I equip my MAD IIC with.... what, exactly? I go back to nerfed ER PPCs and smalls? For what reason?

The ONLY heavy hitting, envelope pushing performance laser vomit mech the clans had was the Hellbringer, so Chris focused on that one mech being a problem, found the easiest solution, and completely skipped what it would do to every other mediocre performing laser vomit mech? I'm just at a loss to understand the logic behind this one.

[vibrant]

Why on earth can't PGI nerf things a little more... progressively? Why is every nerf a drastic swing one way or the other? It makes absolutely no sense. "We realized things were bad," (they actually weren't), "so we're flipping things completely." (and making things bad the other way?)

What happened to iterative changes?