14 replies to this topic

[Inatu Elimor]

Dear Gurus,

Why is it that the arc radius of the torso increases when the arms are unlocked ?

[El Bandito]

Because of your mouse sensitivity and how it unequally affect arm and torso yaw. If you wish to twist fast with arm locked then increase your mouse sensitivity.

[Tarl Cabot]

The OP posted arc radius greater with torso unlocked. But OP, have you actual recordings showing such? As for torso speed, has someone actually recorded and clocked that? Seriously though... Or is it simply the perspective that torso is moving faster with torso unlocked while on the arc radius "increase" may be due to actual mech movement?

[Inatu Elimor]

Tarl Cabot, on 13 May 2018 - 07:15 AM, said:

The OP posted arc radius greater with torso unlocked. But OP, have you actual recordings showing such? As for torso speed, has someone actually recorded and clocked that? Seriously though... Or is it simply the perspective that torso is moving faster with torso unlocked while on the arc radius "increase" may be due to actual mech movement?

Here is what I did.

Go to testing grounds. Face an enemy mech and stand still. Choose reference points and rotate with arms locked. Notice your turn radial; I mean the degrees you can move around the arc. Now do the same with arms unlocked. In my case the radial will definitely increase. (Don' t know if mouse sensitivity has anything do with it but in my opinion it shouldn't. Mouse should influence response (?) time, not radial !!).

Edited by Inatu Elimor, 13 May 2018 - 10:35 AM.

[Alexander of Macedon]

You're wrong, or it's something wonky with one specific 'mech.

Here's a set of samples:





Each side is armlock on at max traverse followed by armlock off at max traverse + max arm traverse. On both sides the position of the torso crosshair and FOV cone on the map is identical regardless of whether armlock is on or off.

[Tarl Cabot]

Not happening. I tested it on Crimson Straight, with all the buildings in a Cyclops (non-skill tree). Where the torso cross hair, not the arm dot, reaches at its farthest arc is the same with or without Torso Lock.

Tested again with a Shadow Hawk w/91 Skill nodes. same result. Same amount of arc.

Alexander posted screenshots and his matches mine.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 13 May 2018 - 11:03 AM.

[Inatu Elimor]

Tarl Cabot, on 13 May 2018 - 10:51 AM, said:

Not happening. I tested it on Crimson Straight, with all the buildings in a Cyclops (non-skill tree). Where the torso cross hair, not the arm dot, reaches at its farthest arc is the same with or without Torso Lock.

Tested again with a Shadow Hawk w/91 Skill nodes. same result. Same amount of arc.

Alexander posted screenshots and his matches mine.

I must confess I' m not looking at the line of fire but the center of the cockpit ( as this relates to the abillity of torso twisting, which is my focus of the moment). Tests are done with Bushwacker P1. The differences are definitly there...

[Tarl Cabot]

The screen shots with the laser fire simply helps to show where that cross hair resides. Take some screenshots of what you are seeing, with or without weapon fire.

Also, with the P1, when firing weapons your torso weapons is set on the crosshair in the middle of the sceen while the arm mounted weapons follow the little circle. Sorry ya likely aware of that but just pointing that out if others who are not aware reads this.

Torso Locked



Unlocked Torso

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 13 May 2018 - 11:43 AM.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Inatu Elimor, on 13 May 2018 - 11:21 AM, said:

I must confess I' m not looking at the line of fire but the center of the cockpit ( as this relates to the abillity of torso twisting, which is my focus of the moment). Tests are done with Bushwacker P1. The differences are definitly there...

The cockpit is centered in the same place. I'm genuinely not trying to sound condescending here: the primary crosshair (the open-center +) is your torso crosshair. This marks the centerpoint of your aim and view. The small circle is your arm crosshair. With arms unlocked, it shows where your arms are aiming. It does not affect your traverse or elevation radius in the slightest.

The only effect of armlock on/off on traverse is effective traverse speed, because the POV camera tracks the arm crosshair when unlocked and while still within the cone of the torso's potential traverse (so that you can actually use your arms to shoot at things that you can't traverse fast enough to target... like, say, circling lights *cough cough*). Because arms have higher baseline sensitivity than the torso you hit the edge of your current angle much faster, such that your torso will begin to traverse sooner than if you had armlock on.

e: You can also look beyond your traverse limit using free-look. That doesn't mean that your torso is suddenly turning farther than it normally can.

Edited by Alexander of Macedon, 13 May 2018 - 12:36 PM.

[Inatu Elimor]

Alexander of Macedon, on 13 May 2018 - 12:35 PM, said:

The cockpit is centered in the same place. I'm genuinely not trying to sound condescending here: the primary crosshair (the open-center +) is your torso crosshair. This marks the centerpoint of your aim and view. The small circle is your arm crosshair. With arms unlocked, it shows where your arms are aiming. It does not affect your traverse or elevation radius in the slightest.

The only effect of armlock on/off on traverse is effective traverse speed, because the POV camera tracks the arm crosshair when unlocked and while still within the cone of the torso's potential traverse (so that you can actually use your arms to shoot at things that you can't traverse fast enough to target... like, say, circling lights *cough cough*). Because arms have higher baseline sensitivity than the torso you hit the edge of your current angle much faster, such that your torso will begin to traverse sooner than if you had armlock on.

e: You can also look beyond your traverse limit using free-look. That doesn't mean that your torso is suddenly turning farther than it normally can.

You are right. I did some more testing and found that the radius indeed remains the same. The illusion came from the movement of my wrist which I assumed to be steady. Well It' s not: it displaces itself during movement giving the illusion of difference in arc radius. The speed seems bigger however, which makes me belief arm unlocked is more effective when torsotwisting.
Thx for reply.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Yes, that's precisely correct. One of the main reasons you should always play with armlock off even when all your weapons are torso mounts is to facilitate twisting. Pretty much the only exception I use is when firing at long range with a mix of arm and torso mounts, since you only need small adjustments and having armlock on helps keep everything converging on the same point.

[Koniving]

Inatu Elimor, on 13 May 2018 - 10:28 AM, said:

Here is what I did.

Go to testing grounds. Face an enemy mech and stand still. Choose reference points and rotate with arms locked. Notice your turn radial; I mean the degrees you can move around the arc. Now do the same with arms unlocked. In my case the radial will definitely increase. (Don' t know if mouse sensitivity has anything do with it but in my opinion it shouldn't. Mouse should influence response (?) time, not radial !!).

Radius?
No.

Twisting SPEED, yes.
That's why the first guy referenced mouse speed.

The torso will twist considerably faster to "Catch up to the arms" than it will with armlock on. This is very important for those using assaults that want to "torso twist" to spread damage on themselves.

Side note:
Mah arm!

[O L L O]

Koniving, on 14 May 2018 - 03:07 AM, said:

Twisting SPEED, yes.
That's why the first guy referenced mouse speed.

The torso will twist considerably faster to "Catch up to the arms" than it will with armlock on. This is very important for those using assaults that want to "torso twist" to spread damage on themselves.

I thought this was only due to perception. The number that states the torso speed, is that with arms locked ot unlocked? Seems strange if it would be two different max speeds.

[Koniving]

Ollollo, on 14 May 2018 - 03:45 AM, said:

I thought this was only due to perception. The number that states the torso speed, is that with arms locked ot unlocked? Seems strange if it would be two different max speeds.

You can check, but it isn't just perception its been tested as early as the implementation of armlock. Twist from left to right with armlock on and with armlock off. Use a light pole as a reference point for when the torso stops moving on the right. They're small and skinny. Now look at the milliseconds taken in video from with armlock to without. (This was how the original test was performed.)

I imagine its with arms unlocked. Armlock is a foreign concept introduced due to the difficulty new players sometimes had with aiming... and unfortunately this is a major contributor to the laser vomit issues...

[Dragonporn]

I use toggle arm lock/unlock on many (if not all) of my mechs, but I never noticed any difference at all with twisting speed, it's either too small to notice or I'm just blind... That said, my mouse sensitivity isn't as low as recommended.