13 replies to this topic

[Fippy Darkpaw]

I've recently returned after a year or so off, but I've only played for a few months previously, so I'm still a pretty new player overall. I have a couple of questions about how the tier system works:

In my previous stint with the game, I never managed to claw my way out of tier 5, despite playing ~800 games. Since my return, in a matter of a couple of weeks, I've gotten out of tier 5 and blown clear through tier 4, landing me in tier 3. This despite the fact that my win/loss ratio has not improved (0.95 globally, 0.92 since return). Unfortunately, my profile doesn't track my global average match score, but my k/d ratio has not improved either (1.15 vs. 1.13). I have noticed my damage scores to be much improved, but this seems to be due to better weapons and the skill system, rather than some increase in my own skill level. Thus, my question - has the rate of tier progression increased in the last year?

Assuming my rate of progress doesn't change, I seem destined for tier 1 within a month or two, a fact which leads me to my other question. Is the skill level noticeably higher in the higher tiers, or is tier simply a meaningless status?

[Koniving]

Has your "ACCOUNT" changed? I.E. are you using a different account?

If not, how long ago was this? There had been a "Reset" of matches counting towards your tier at some point...quite a long time ago.

Either way, the more matches you have the harder it is to move. After all, doing good in 20 matches when you only have 30 matches, means you're damn good 2/3rds of the time.

Doing good in 20 matches when you have 100 matches, means you're only doing good 1/5th of the time.

Doing good in 20 matches when you have 500 matches,means you're only doing good 1/25th of the time.

Doing good in 20 matches when you have 50,000,000 matches means you're only doing good in 1 out of every 2,500,000 matches.

Now lets say to get that 1/5th ratio in the second example, you did 12 kills. Now if you had 50,000,000 matches instead of just 100, you'd have to do 12 kills each for all of 10,000,000 matches just to be rated the same as that little new guy on easy street with a 1/5th ratio of good matches.

So, as you can see, the more matches you have, the harder it is to move.

This is why someone that's just starting can bump to tier 1 within 250 matches or less, while someone that's got 30,000 matches or so feels like he's stuck in quicksand.

Even if the second person started doing better than the first, he'll probably never reach tier 1 in his lifetime without doing a new account.

Edited by Koniving, 07 April 2018 - 05:05 AM.

[loopala]

Koniving, on 07 April 2018 - 04:58 AM, said:

This is why someone that's just starting can bump to tier 1 within 250 matches or less, while someone that's got 30,000 matches or so feels like he's stuck in quicksand.

Even if the second person started doing better than the first, he'll probably never reach tier 1 in his lifetime without doing a new account.

and this explains my Tier 5 status LOL
that and I like to play fun to me mechs and tend to take chances that sometimes pay off and other times don't....
having a toaster that barely got 10 fps did not help ether LOL

why am I tier 5? let me count the ways....

but yes a new account can easily get into tier 3 in under 100 games if you play avg and have ok luck with your teams,

[Koniving]

Hey, I had to fight get back to tier 4 if it says anything. That took a while. Its finally at the point where doing good for some 40 odd matches in a row don't suddenly throw me above the hair's width at the end of tier 4 back into tier 3.

Just have to do bad every now and then to keep from going back. Piranha with a UAC/2 or UAC/5 is a great way to do that. Its fun, skill building, and doomed to lose so hard that you look bad in the PSR system no matter what.

[Zergling]

Murnende, on 07 April 2018 - 03:06 AM, said:

Unfortunately, my profile doesn't track my global average match score

Look at the Seasonal Leaderboard or Jarl's List (which is just collected stats from the Leaderboard)

You averaged 164 match score in Season 7, went up to 219 in Season 8, then jumped to 299 when you started playing again Season 21, and are currently at 255 in Season 22.

Murnende, on 07 April 2018 - 03:06 AM, said:

Thus, my question - has the rate of tier progression increased in the last year?

Yes; the averaged for all players jumped from about 200 to 225-230, due to changes in match score and increased health of mechs thanks to the survival tree in the skill tree.

Increased average mech health = more damage done per kill = more match score

Murnende, on 07 April 2018 - 03:06 AM, said:

Assuming my rate of progress doesn't change, I seem destined for tier 1 within a month or two

I'd estimate another 1000 battles.

Murnende, on 07 April 2018 - 03:06 AM, said:

Is the skill level noticeably higher in the higher tiers, or is tier simply a meaningless status?

Yes; the higher your Tier, the more frequently you will be facing experienced and skilled opposition.

Eg, look at my seasonal stats in Jarl's List, I reached Tier 1 at the end of Season 8; prior to that I had managed to achieve stats above 90% for several months in a row, but afterwards I only managed one more month of that before my stats crashed hard.
I can still achieve over 1.00 W/L, but my days of maintaining over 1.50 Win/Loss, 1.00 Kills/Battle and 300 average Match Score are over.

Edited by Zergling, 07 April 2018 - 10:22 PM.

[Fippy Darkpaw]

Thank you for the replies, the info you provided helps a lot.

Koniving, on 07 April 2018 - 04:58 AM, said:

Has your "ACCOUNT" changed? I.E. are you using a different account?

Same account

Koniving, on 07 April 2018 - 04:58 AM, said:

So, as you can see, the more matches you have, the harder it is to move.

I'm guessing that my low total number of games (<1000) is why I seem to be moving so rapidly.

Zergling, on 07 April 2018 - 10:14 PM, said:

Look at the Seasonal Leaderboard or Jarl's List (which is just collected stats from the Leaderboard)

Thanks for the links!

Zergling, on 07 April 2018 - 10:14 PM, said:

I'd estimate another 1000 battles.

No complaints if it takes a little longer. More time to 'git gud!'

[Scyther]

Also keep in mind that it isn't (comparatively) hard rack up a decent score in a teir 4 match, and it is mostly the score (relative to the match) that bumps your rating up.

Now that you are tier 3 your 'relative' score will need to hit a slightly higher target to keep moving upwards, so you may find the process slows down a bit compared to tier 4.

Edited by MadBadger, 08 April 2018 - 01:45 PM.

[Tarl Cabot]

MadBadger, on 08 April 2018 - 01:44 PM, said:

Also keep in mind that it isn't (comparatively) hard rack up a decent score in a teir 4 match, and it is mostly the score (relative to the match) that bumps your rating up.

Now that you are tier 3 your 'relative' score will need to hit a slightly higher target to keep moving upwards, so you may find the process slows down a bit compared to tier 4.

Hmm, match score number itself is not relative to the tier it is generated. A 400 MS in Tier 4 provides the same amount of increase as it does in Tier 1. I believe you mean that the difference between obtaining a MS of 400 will generally be the difficulty of hitting that since as one moves up in tiers the player generally will be facing more experienced players.

For the OP, as noted in the links, damage contributes approximately 50% of the MS, and I believe that is what MadBadger is referring to, of generating the actual damage that gets applied to the matchscore. As you will note, the worse you can do on a win is break even, otherwise your score will move you up. On a loss you can drop, break even or even move up a little.

https://mwomercs.com...-as-best-i-can/

https://mwomercs.com...-tiers-and-psr/

Quote

On a Win:
PSR goes UP a lot if match score is >400
PSR goes UP a moderate amount if match score is >250 but <=400
PSR goes UP a little if match score is >= 100
PSR has NO CHANGE for a match score <100

Note: I do not have data on a zero match score if that would cause PSR to go down on a win, but I suspect PSR does not drop on a win, at the very least I have not experienced that.

On a Loss:
PSR goes UP if match score is > 400
PSR has NO CHANGE for a match score >250 but <= 400
PSR goes DOWN a little if match score is <=250
PSR goes DOWN a lot if match score is < 100

On a Tie:
Both sides, all players see a NO CHANGE to PSR regardless of match score.

As you can see, winning makes it easier to improve PSR.
However, PSR can go up steadily if you can consistently match scores above 250 and 400 on losses.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 08 April 2018 - 02:47 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Fippy Darkpaw, on 07 April 2018 - 03:06 AM, said:

This despite the fact that my win/loss ratio has not improved (0.95 globally, 0.92 since return). Unfortunately, my profile doesn't track my global average match score, but my k/d ratio has not improved either (1.15 vs. 1.13). I have noticed my damage scores to be much improved, but this seems to be due to better weapons and the skill system, rather than some increase in my own skill level. Thus, my question - has the rate of tier progression increased in the last year?

Assuming my rate of progress doesn't change, I seem destined for tier 1 within a month or two, a fact which leads me to my other question. Is the skill level noticeably higher in the higher tiers, or is tier simply a meaningless status?

Given the current average skill floor of MWO... You are actually playing just above average... Yep, hard to believe right?

All you need is 170 average match score, 0.9 WLR to make it to Tier 1 over enough matches... That is how bad PSR is/works.

[Javajoe42]

Well have been playing for 2+ years and am still in Tier 5 even though the last 8 months or so I get an average of 2 kills per game and roughly 500 damage. Think the PSR is broken personally. I could play 8 million matches, have 10 kills a game with 1000 damage a game and still not get out of Tier 5.

[Tarl Cabot]

Javajoe42, on 10 May 2018 - 11:33 AM, said:

Well have been playing for 2+ years and am still in Tier 5 even though the last 8 months or so I get an average of 2 kills per game and roughly 500 damage. Think the PSR is broken personally. I could play 8 million matches, have 10 kills a game with 1000 damage a game and still not get out of Tier 5.

First, remember it is your match scores + wins/loss that determines PSR movement, with damage contributions approx 50% to the match score. Meaning if your match scores stays around 200 or so, you need to break even or or have more win to move up. Even more important, attempt to generate higher Matchscore on losses than wins. Simply looking at Jarls List, you were likely at the max bottom of T5 but over the last few seasons (months) you have bounced between 170ish to 210s.

The graph on the left is how win/loss + match score determines movement.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 10 May 2018 - 03:04 PM.

[Javajoe42]

I was thought PSR was completely based on damage.

[mistlynx4life]

Javajoe42, on 14 May 2018 - 01:15 PM, said:

I was thought PSR was completely based on damage.

Nope. Damage is the primary factor, so dealing lots of damage will usually boost that match score to a satisfactory level, but there's lots of other things that contribute - spotting, objectives, flanking, sticking with your lance, focusing fire, using UAVs to uncover enemies, TAG and NARC, etc.

Like Tarl Cabot says above, there's a sort of dead zone that you have to consistently be breaking through in order to trend upwards overall. While I'm working on an updated version of it, here's a video I made on the subject that may help some folks out that jives with a lot of what's being said:

[reflectorjones]

Tarl Cabot, on 10 May 2018 - 03:02 PM, said:

First, remember it is your match scores + wins/loss that determines PSR movement, with damage contributions approx 50% to the match score. Meaning if your match scores stays around 200 or so, you need to break even or or have more win to move up. Even more important, attempt to generate higher Matchscore on losses than wins. Simply looking at Jarls List, you were likely at the max bottom of T5 but over the last few seasons (months) you have bounced between 170ish to 210s.

The graph on the left is how win/loss + match score determines movement.

This is why Tier should be based on match score.