22 replies to this topic

[LeastWeasel]

Hey all - I’ve come back to the game, and am loving it so far. I play about 2-3 nights a week, and am looking to get entrenched in the deep end before I get lost in the long, quiet desoloation of the solo grind (hot damn does this game economy punish a few unwise early purchases). So here I am, with a nearly-skilled CN9-AL & brawler Roughneck, wondering a few things:

1. The best gamemode to spend my time in if I am looking to maximize:
A ) coordination?
B ) payout?

2. What consumables offer advantage enough to recoup the cost?

3. Are midrange builds the best option in QP? Learning to brawl has been an excercise in patience, canny timing paired with frustration at noncommittal teams. My double-LL-ML-SRM Cent has been waaaaay more forgiving than my Standard-engine Roughneck (although the challenge of the latter has led me to nosedive my wins as I learn the ropes & slowly tweak my build).


All in all, I suppose I’m content in QP until I improve enough to run with more experienced pilots - but it’s always good to look ahead.

Edited by LeastWeasel, 18 May 2018 - 09:09 AM.

[Don T]

1. Faction Warfare. But you have to run with a good group. Or else you will just spend half an hour getting stomped.

2. UAVs, Arty Strikes and Cool shots.

A well placed UAV can give you like 8 spotting assists if the opponents are in a murderball. But be aware that in the lower tiers such a UAV will make your teammates run away. Not shoot the enemies (so you don't get those juicy UAV assists)
Cool shots and arty strikes can raise your damage, say, from 600 to 900... but only for a competent user.

3. Depends on what tier you are playing. In tier 5 a heavy with 4 x ERLL is boss... not so much in tier 3 and up.
I suggest you google "metamech" but please note the day of the post. The meta has been changing the last two years.

Edited by Don T, 18 May 2018 - 09:21 AM.

[LeastWeasel]

Awesome, thanks for this response - I was wondering about UAV’s and strikes to augment my Roughneck - more situational awareness before I commit would be fantastic (and I didn’t think about the spottiing c-bill bonus). Really trying to make a tanky Roughneck work in QP, as of last night I’ve started hitting some 700+ damage games, so I think I’m starting to get the hang of it...

[Don T]

700 damage is good. Especially if you're not in an assault.

I wasn't trying to be lazy when I suggested that you should google metamechs...

Some like them fast and some like them tanky... some like to brawl and some like to stay at distance.

I was just about to list some mechs... but I will refrain.

My mech choiches might not suit you.

Google is your friend.

[LeastWeasel]

Yeah, although the RGH-1C has been unforgiving, I’ve now had a few golden games - 700+ damage, down to structure everywhere (have maxed out the survival skills completely), and all my ammo stores at 20% or lower. After looking at a lot of builds, I was convinced I needed a pricey XL engine to fit a bigger weapons load, but until that happens, the LBX-5, 2 LMG & 20 SRMs have been a pretty good stopgap measure. I burst & spread until the armor cracks, then the LMGs come in to play and it’s crit city.

Why is the LBX5 so abhorred? Haven’t used a 10 yet....

[BTGbullseye]

LeastWeasel, on 18 May 2018 - 10:23 AM, said:

Why is the LBX5 so abhorred?

Because it's the lowest DPS of any ballistics, (excluding the non-ultra AC2) plus you'll have a hard time hitting the same component consistently. (which is the fastest way to kill an enemy)

Edited by BTGbullseye, 18 May 2018 - 10:29 AM.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Mostly ^^^

Additionally, it's got the downside of LBs (spread) without the upsides (for IS, being lighter than the AC equivalent; and having sufficient pellets to do nasty crits).

I don't play Roughnecks, but by my understanding you're better off running an LFE since they're fairly tanky already.

As far as builds go, you can also post 'mechs you're interested in and we can talk through some of what they're good at. Alternatively, what sort of playstyle you want to try and we can recommend chassis for it.

[LeastWeasel]

Alright, absorbed all that’s been said - and retooled my RGH-1C to look like this: https://mwo.smurfy-n...81a31e077e795d6

When I can no longer sustain the alpha & twist, or need to panic a mech, I put all the big stuff on chain fire & engage the MG’s for a constant damage hose at <200 meters. Once I can swing an LFE (big investment right now), I’ll retool.

I suppose if I am to get two more mechs, I’d invest in a mid/long range firing line heavy, and then some sort of scouting light. All IS.

Man, thanks so much for the responses!

[Alexander of Macedon]

Alright, within those restrictions and based on my own experience: a triple UAC/2 Dragon 5N, any Rifleman or Jagermech (pick your flavor of compatibility for different energy/ballistic builds, a Grasshopper or Thunderbolt if you want slightly old-fashioned laservom, or a Warhammer 6R with 2x Gauss and ERMLas backup.

I'm more of a light guy. Keep in mind that "scouting" isn't something you build a 'mech for, it's something that happens largely incidentally if you're playing a fast light properly. For IS lights the main question right now is whether it can do a decent job of sustaining 6 MLas. The Wolfhound 2 does this very well as it can spare a good chunk of tonnage for extra heatsinks on top of being pretty tanky. The Osiris 4D has excellent speed, agility, weapon geometry, and can run with jumpjets without sacrificing anything, though it does also tend to run hot. Damn solid 'mech though. Those would be my two main recommendations for all-rounder lights.

Generally speaking the rest break down like this for the IS:

-Urbies: Very small mediums. Carry lots of weapons for their tonnage, move a bit slower, very tanky. Good 'mechs, but they don't play much like other lights.
-Jenners, Firestarters, Panthers, Commandos: Mostly formerly good 'mechs that were ruined by the great rescale, terrible hitboxes, and in some cases the inability to carry enough potential damage to compete these days. The premium Firestarters (Ember and Firestorm) work alright as HMG carriers.
-Javelins: Run around poking things with SRM2s. Die if anything looks at you. They're decent but really easy to do badly in if you mess up.
-Spiders: Very fun to run around with, woefully undergunned. Range from the SDR-5K's "Well at least it can carry four MGs" to the SDR-5D's "Well at least it can mount ECM" to the SDR-5V's "Well at least it can launch itself into orbit". Even if you're an experienced light jock you'll have a really hard time putting up good damage.
-Ravens: The Raven 3L used to be one of the most common lights to see, given the combination of ECM, high corner-mounted energy hardpoints, and the tonnage to carry 2x ERLLas. Also stereotypically the last 'mech alive after a stomp. They have decent torso geometry & great weapon geometry but get screwed by their giant legs, flat backs. I still love mine but would not recommend them.
-Locusts: Used to be god, some of them. Then PGI nerfed the quirk and weapon that made the 1V viable, nerfed IS SPLas for no reason, making the 1E, 3M, and PB no longer good. The rest are and always have been total garbage. They used to be dangerous backstabbing crotch-rockets with paper armor. Now they're not nearly as dangerous.
-The remaining Wolfhounds: Still good, not as good as the 2, since they either have 5E hardpoints or (for the 1A) slightly less optimal hardpoint distribution.
-The remaining Osiris variants: various shades of meh thanks to worse hardpoint counts, locations, &c.

You can hypothetically do well in anything, but a lot of IS lights are honestly just not very good these days.

Edited by Alexander of Macedon, 18 May 2018 - 07:55 PM.

[PurplePuke]

LeastWeasel, on 18 May 2018 - 12:16 PM, said:

Alright, absorbed all that’s been said - and retooled my RGH-1C to look like this: https://mwo.smurfy-n...81a31e077e795d6

Hi,

I thought I'd share a couple thoughts on your build.

I like Roughnecks. They're solid mechs that are tanky and can stay in the fight.

Engines:

• XL engines are nice and light and allow you to mount more weapons and ammo. But they have one fatal flaw: once you lose a side torso, you're dead.
  
• Standard engines are too heavy.
  
• Light engines are the best choice in Roughnecks. They're lighter than Standards, but not as light as XL's. Their strength is that mechs with Light engines don't die when a side torso is destroyed.
  
• I think you'll find that most people use LFE's in Roughnecks. All my Roughnecks have LFE's. When you have the cash, get one.

Machine Guns:

• Machine guns are great for critting components on enemies once their armor is gone. But as a general rule, you need to run them in groups of 4 or more. You've got 2, which is better than nothing in those ballistic slots, but they're not very effective in pairs. Requires a lot of face time with just 2.

Missiles:

• SRM4's are great. They don't spread too much, but their range is kind of limited. They sync pretty good with LB10X.
  
• MRM's: MRM's have nice range, but spread their damage. Still, they can be effective.

Overall:

I like Roughnecks, but the 1C is my least favorite. I think the builds are restricted a little bit too much. I don't have the 1C anymore but you could try something like this:

• LIght Engine 275 = speed 68.5
  
• LB10X w/ 2 tons ammo
  
• MRM 30 w/ 2 tons ammo
  
• A rocket launcher in each arm

These are just some suggestions really, I'm sure others will disagree.

But I would definitely switch to a Light Engine if I were you.

Regards,
Purple Puke

[Leone]

Okay, first suggested changes. Ammo in the legs to clear up a case slot. I redid half a tonne of srm ammo and the case to a spare Double Heat Sink. Feel free to switch back if you run outta Srm ammo.

Second thing to think about. Machine guns. Two is not enough, in my humble opinion, to be worth the wieght. Three to four is were I feel it starts to get worth it. Consider if you will This RGH-1C.

And then, as mentioned, if you wanna upgrade the engine, go Light Fusion Engine. Yeah, there's a heat spike when you lose a torso, but at least you're still on the field, unlike the XL. Now, if you're going to go LFE, consider buying the 280, as it'll be useful for many a mech, allowing you to swap engines around to test LFE builds in combat without having to purchase a new one. Of course, if all you care about is the weight savings, then yeah, you could stick with 250, but try to buy your engine with other mechs in mind. It really helps.

Also, whilst you may wish to peruse Meta mech build options, I'd suggest only looking at them as examples,
and understand most probably wont be built for the style of play it seems you prefer. I personally dislike them, and I've seen a few newbies gets upset and quit playing due to trying supposedly 'good' meta mechs.

P.S. Friend me in game, if we're on at the same time I'll see if we got room next time my unit's dropping in CW.

~Leone

Edited by Leone, 20 May 2018 - 10:48 AM.

[LeastWeasel]

Daaaaamn, thanks all - the input & advice has been fantastic, and gotten me excited for both honing this build, and starting on others. One question: is putting CASE-less ammo in the legs a good alternative to save a half-ton here and there? Now that I’ve fully specced’ my ‘Neck for durability, those crits are much rarer. Can’t wait to log in and expand that friends list!


And yeah, the MG’s are only there for those moments (like getting back shots in a brawl) where you can just turn on the hose. I’d looooove to have 4 in the arms, but I really like having the two - ever since that game I ran up my heat alpha-striking a madcat & them finishing it with a double-mg hose while I cooled.


Super-curious about rockets. They’re worth it? Aren’t they one-shots?

Edited by LeastWeasel, 20 May 2018 - 01:53 PM.

[Roland09]

Yes, rocket launchers are one-shot weapons. Also, they have a minimum range of 50 m, within which they do zero damage.

As such, you will not find any *serious* build built around them, but you may encounter them as a kind of support weapons in the can opener / finisher role when people had a few tons to spare and a missile slot available.

[Hierarch]

Responding to OP as the rest is TLDR. Arti strikes are the best consumable up to heavy UAV's are kind of hit and miss as they depend on a team to maximize their potential where as a strike is something you can use. They take skill and timing to place properly but if you do it's an easy 100-300 damage a game. I tell people you can pretty much make tier 2 just on your use of strikes alone. The larger mechs coolshot because more useful, especially if playing clan. Medium to long range is where you want to be in QP as your allies are to unreliable for a coordinated attack most of the time and will mostly hide, robbing the team of armor. So when you decide to lead the charge more often then not you'll be singled out and crushed rather frequently. As for growing as a player finding a clan that does group drops I think is essential to reaching your zenith. A well coordinated group plays the game in a completely different way then pugs and it's hard to learn that experience any way other then joining up. Also Faction play nets you good bonuses!

[IronWolfPack64]

I am willing to group up if you want just send me a friend request.

I am willing to group up if you want just send me a friend request.

[justcallme A S H]

Payout is highly dependant on how good you play, simple as that. It's nothing to do with the mode.

I can regularly crank out 400k cbill games in QP in 6-8mins which can be faster return than FP payout for 20-25mins (+wait time). It depends on a few factors essentially.

If you are starting back and in a lower Tier then QP will generally be better IMO. Just don't brawl... In QP, trying to do it, is an exercise in frustration for the most part.

[PaquIS]

LeastWeasel, on 18 May 2018 - 12:16 PM, said:

Alright, absorbed all that’s been said - and retooled my RGH-1C to look like this: https://mwo.smurfy-n...81a31e077e795d6

When I can no longer sustain the alpha & twist, or need to panic a mech, I put all the big stuff on chain fire & engage the MG’s for a constant damage hose at <200 meters. Once I can swing an LFE (big investment right now), I’ll retool.

I suppose if I am to get two more mechs, I’d invest in a mid/long range firing line heavy, and then some sort of scouting light. All IS.

Man, thanks so much for the responses!

I'd like to give few tips on your build which is good to keep in mind on other mechs as well.

Firstly the C.A.S.E is pretty much useless and you are just wasting tonnage by taking it. It will prevent the damage from spreading on your CT and arm if your ammo happens to get critted on the side torso. Thats it. Ammo doesn't get critted that often and by placing it better on your mech you can minimize that risk even further.

Always put ammo on head and center torso unless ofc there is a weapon slot you want to use. After that fill up the legs and only after that on the side torsos if needed. Its ok to put them on the arm as well if for example you have a mech where you have an AC10 on the arm. If the arm goes it doesn't really matter if the ammo goes as well since you just lost the only weapon that needed the said ammo.

Those machine guns are really hurting your brawling potential. They require you to face your opponent for a long time which is something you dont want to do in a brawling situation. Two machine guns ain't gonna do much and you will give your opponent an easy time to target on whatever component he want's to shoot on your mech. When you can no longer sustain alpha, just use the SRM's or LBX or just keep twisting until you can alpha again. In either case its better than to stare your opponent and tickle him with couple machine guns.

Here is the build I prefer to use on my Roughneck 1C:
https://www.dropbox....ghneck.jpg?dl=0

All SRM's are on one side which helps to fire them in tighter group when they are not coming from both sides of your mech. Also you save some tonnage as you can lower the armor on the right arm and can use it for shielding.

Granted, on an unskilled mech this might be a little too hot for brawling. So here is another option if you prefer to use your LBX10 instead of the AC20 and want it to run cooler:
https://www.dropbox....cksrm6.jpg?dl=0

SRM4 version:
https://www.dropbox....cksrm4.jpg?dl=0

Edited by PaquIS, 21 May 2018 - 06:15 AM.

[Cloves]

What do folks think of this:

RGH-1C

The MRMs and LBX are in fire group 1 the LMGs and SMGs are in fire group 2.

sometimes I drop the heatsink for more MRM ammor (7.5 shots is kinda low endurance)

Edited by Cloves, 27 May 2018 - 08:32 AM.

[BTGbullseye]

Cloves, on 27 May 2018 - 08:15 AM, said:

What do folks think of this:

RGH-1C

The MRMs and LBX are in fire group 1 the LMGs and SMGs are in fire group 2.

MG > LMG

Also, an X10 shouldn't be on the same group as the MRMs... The cooldown and lead difference is problematic for efficient firing.

Never put MGs in the same group with missiles.

Are you trying to limit yourself to 2 groups or something? This design is built for 4.

[Cloves]

BTGbullseye, on 27 May 2018 - 08:26 AM, said:

MG > LMG

Also, an X10 shouldn't be on the same group as the MRMs... The cooldown and lead difference is problematic for efficient firing.

Never put MGs in the same group with missiles.

Are you trying to limit yourself to 2 groups or something? This design is built for 4.

yes, it simplifies my thinking when trying to deal with brawling, the group one is for the longer reach, and so I can twist after firing, the group two is for lights and crit cleanup at very short range, I find it difficult to twist between the refire rate for 2s so I teat them as DPS stare weapons. The LBX can fire twice as often as the 2 mrms so it can gap fill as well.

Edited by Cloves, 27 May 2018 - 09:16 AM.