51 replies to this topic

[Xetelian]

SRMs have taken quite a few nerfings.

Ballistics are still hot and jam all the time.

There has got to be a way to make these better and able to compete with laser vomit instead of just making laser vomit worse.

[thievingmagpi]

PGI do something right?

that's expecting a lot.

[Mortalcoil]

If the answer ever involves decreasing TTK, the answer is always no.

[El Bandito]

Thing is, if we buff ballistics, that's buffing mechs like MCII-B/Blasp/NGyr at the same time. If we buff SRMs, we are buffing Orion-IICs/MCII-2/Scorch/MDD-A etc... So that will eventually force PGI to nerf those mechs, and we know how thorough and merciless PGI is, when they nerf mechs that are sticking out. Nerf smash is not gonna be limited to the offending variant, oh no, but the entire chassis as a whole. Kodiaks remember...

Edited by El Bandito, 11 May 2018 - 08:20 PM.

[Asym]

It's a forgone conclusion that TTK is too short for S7. You'all are too good !!! Well, big brother PGI just helped you out and that's just the start. Get too uppidy and they'll nerf you'all into oblivion..... Wait, we're not too far away from another major ooooops nerf.

[Snowbluff]

Nerfing LaserVom was probably the right thing to do. However, I do wonder what clans are supposed to do now. Laser vom was so far ahead of everything else they have. Their missiles and ballastics weigh a lot less, but they take hefty penalties in DPS and efficacy for it. IE, clans are only good when boating a huge number of weapon (like the MCII-B with 4 cannons), but smaller numbers of them feel weak.

[El Bandito]

Asym, on 11 May 2018 - 08:27 PM, said:

It's a forgone conclusion that TTK is too short for S7. You'all are too good !!! Well, big brother PGI just helped you out and that's just the start. Get too uppidy and they'll nerf you'all into oblivion.....

Las-vomit is the least used builds in S7 in general--especially the ones PGI had just nerfed. So I dunno where you got that idea from.

[Prototelis]

Yeah, this is more a smack to the people playing giga vomit smellbringer in QP. Which was admittedly an annoying build to deal with, but sorta easy to twist around the damage.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Xetelian, on 11 May 2018 - 07:34 PM, said:

SRMs have taken quite a few nerfings.

Ballistics are still hot and jam all the time.

There has got to be a way to make these better and able to compete with laser vomit instead of just making laser vomit worse.

Its the sane thing to do, its what has been asked for many times, its what doesn't cause all your playerbase to ask for refunds and leave, and its not what PGI is doing.

[Xetelian]

El Bandito, on 11 May 2018 - 08:19 PM, said:

Thing is, if we buff ballistics, that's buffing mechs like MCII-B/Blasp/NGyr at the same time. If we buff SRMs, we are buffing Orion-IICs/MCII-2/Scorch/MDD-A etc... So that will eventually force PGI to nerf those mechs, and we know how thorough and merciless PGI is, when they nerf mechs that are sticking out. Nerf smash is not gonna be limited to the offending variant, oh no, but the entire chassis as a whole. Kodiaks remember...

Funnily enough I don't see very many Orion's MCIIs, Scorches or MDD without LRMs and still rarely see these particular chassis. I have been dropping regularly all year and have ran into only 2 or 3 scorchs and they had LRMs. I've seen only a very few people trying out the Trial Orion IIC.


You don't see KDKs anymore either, like at all.




Can we not find a middle ground where these mechs can be popular but not so inconceivably OP that no one plays anything else?

Can we lower jam chance but tie UAC5/10s at 3 for ghost heat at 4 but not give it a ridiculous amount of ghost heat like MRMs?

Can we increase artemis bonus and SRM spread but dialing their heat up a little and their damage per missile down a little?


I dream of a middle ground where people can still enjoy their mechs but don't have to suffer immensely when playing them.

Edited by Xetelian, 12 May 2018 - 01:10 AM.

[El Bandito]

Xetelian, on 12 May 2018 - 01:08 AM, said:

Funnily enough I don't see very many Orion's MCIIs, Scorches or MDD without LRMs and still rarely see these particular chassis. I have been dropping regularly all year and have ran into only 2 or 3 scorchs and they had LRMs. I've seen only a very few people trying out the Trial Orion IIC.

I see them plenty in FP. And as a mainly FP player, I care about its balance more than QP.

Xetelian, on 12 May 2018 - 01:08 AM, said:

Can we not find a middle ground where these mechs can be popular but not so inconceivably OP that no one plays anything else?

Can we lower jam chance but tie UAC5/10s at 3 for ghost heat at 4 but not give it a ridiculous amount of ghost heat like MRMs?

Can we increase artemis bonus and SRM spread but dialing their heat up a little and their damage per missile down a little?

I dream of a middle ground where people can still enjoy their mechs but don't have to suffer immensely when playing them.

That's up to PGI, and so far they are not doing good enough job about it. I would have done something about it, but I do not work for them.

[A Headless Chicken]

El Bandito, on 12 May 2018 - 01:57 AM, said:

That's up to PGI, and so far they are not doing good enough job about it. I would have done something about it, but I do not work for them.

Highly doubt you would want to anyway, not with this balance team being a little... special.

[El Bandito]

A Headless Chicken, on 12 May 2018 - 03:19 AM, said:

Highly doubt you would want to anyway, not with this balance team being a little... special.

But I really, REALLY want this game to continue, and actually grow. It is a frustrating thing, knowing that you can help with balancing, but are not able to. Very presumptuous statement, yes, but I honestly think I can help.

[Asym]

El Bandito, on 11 May 2018 - 09:01 PM, said:

Las-vomit is the least used builds in S7 in general--especially the ones PGI had just nerfed. So I dunno where you got that idea from.

Um, let me see.....SPL, Medium lasers, ERPPC/Gauss, ARETMIS, LRM's, etc, etc,... Huge agility nerfs. PGI will have to nerf everything at some point to make S7 "longer" cause of all of the Tweets to Russ I've heard about, S7 is too short and boring...... And, EL, there were at least 20 Tweets on that topic from the players I communicate with outside of the game in the past month....

Last year alone, hundreds of complaints about TTK and the prospects of matches lasting less than 5 minutes. Want to bet those complaints, many from high dollar spending whales, were heard??? Their tens of thousands of dollars en masse saying "make it longer; simpler"........were heard U bet and if I were to guess, were acted upon at some point.... Money talks.

It's never been about "balance"; it's been about sales and real dollar spending customer's satisfaction you betcha... They were heard I'm pretty sure.

Edited by Asym, 12 May 2018 - 11:41 AM.

[Seranov]

Asym, on 12 May 2018 - 11:40 AM, said:

Um, let me see.....SPL, Medium lasers, ERPPC/Gauss, ARETMIS, LRM's, etc, etc,... Huge agility nerfs. PGI will have to nerf everything at some point to make S7 "longer" cause of all of the Tweets to Russ I've heard about, S7 is too short and boring...... And, EL, there were at least 20 Tweets on that topic from the players I communicate with outside of the game in the past month....

Last year alone, hundreds of complaints about TTK and the prospects of matches lasting less than 5 minutes. Want to bet those complaints, many from high dollar spending whales, were heard??? Their tens of thousands of dollars en masse saying "make it longer; simpler"........were heard U bet and if I were to guess, were acted upon at some point.... Money talks.

It's never been about "balance"; it's been about sales and real dollar spending customer's satisfaction you betcha... They were heard I'm pretty sure.

Except for the SPLs, none of those weapons are remotely good for Solaris. What they are good for is mid-long range trading with minimal/no face-time, which is only slightly represented in Solaris at all. Only the SPL nerf has any effect on how S7 matches would play out, because stronger SPLs would be the de facto weapon of choice for pretty much everyone in S7's brawl-heavy meta if it hadn't happened.

You have close to zero understanding of how S7 works, or the game at large for that matter, so no amount of amateur businessman talk you spout will make up for the fact that Solaris has zero to do with these nerfs. PGI hasn't, and likely never will, balance around this 1v1 mode, but rather to suit their own whims. I know, it's easier to blame you and your unit being mediocre on "nerfs aimed to make S7 viable" but it's just not the case.

[Xetelian]

Asym, on 12 May 2018 - 11:40 AM, said:

Um, let me see.....SPL, Medium lasers, ERPPC/Gauss, ARETMIS, LRM's, etc, etc,... Huge agility nerfs. PGI will have to nerf everything at some point to make S7 "longer" cause of all of the Tweets to Russ I've heard about, S7 is too short and boring...... And, EL, there were at least 20 Tweets on that topic from the players I communicate with outside of the game in the past month....

Last year alone, hundreds of complaints about TTK and the prospects of matches lasting less than 5 minutes. Want to bet those complaints, many from high dollar spending whales, were heard??? Their tens of thousands of dollars en masse saying "make it longer; simpler"........were heard U bet and if I were to guess, were acted upon at some point.... Money talks.

It's never been about "balance"; it's been about sales and real dollar spending customer's satisfaction you betcha... They were heard I'm pretty sure.

How about we just double armor again? That would raise TTK and nerf ALL the weapons at once, then we can start buffing them to work towards a happy medium that has mechs lasting longer than they do now but not so long that 15 minute matches need to be raised to 30.

[Ted Wayz]

Buff damage on a weapon with pin point accuracy? Not a good idea.

Buff a weapon with a gazillion counters? Why?

No such thing as weapon system equivalency. Only way to balance is to change the reward system and create roles.

[Asym]

Seranov, on 12 May 2018 - 01:47 PM, said:

You have close to zero understanding of how S7 works, or the game at large for that matter, so no amount of amateur businessman talk you spout will make up for the fact that Solaris has zero to do with these nerfs. PGI hasn't, and likely never will, balance around this 1v1 mode, but rather to suit their own whims. I know, it's easier to blame you and your unit being mediocre on "nerfs aimed to make S7 viable" but it's just not the case.

Here you go again.... good grief. Think opinion and perspective lad. You'd be surprised what many of us actually know. Have fun and be well.

[Xetelian]

Asym, on 12 May 2018 - 11:40 AM, said:

Um, let me see.....SPL, Medium lasers, ERPPC/Gauss, ARETMIS, LRM's, etc, etc,... Huge agility nerfs. PGI will have to nerf everything at some point to make S7 "longer" cause of all of the Tweets to Russ I've heard about, S7 is too short and boring...... And, EL, there were at least 20 Tweets on that topic from the players I communicate with outside of the game in the past month....

Last year alone, hundreds of complaints about TTK and the prospects of matches lasting less than 5 minutes. Want to bet those complaints, many from high dollar spending whales, were heard??? Their tens of thousands of dollars en masse saying "make it longer; simpler"........were heard U bet and if I were to guess, were acted upon at some point.... Money talks.

It's never been about "balance"; it's been about sales and real dollar spending customer's satisfaction you betcha... They were heard I'm pretty sure.

Its funny by I value this game because matches last less than 10 minutes. I quit LoL because matches in general were constantly at 40-60 minutes. The fact that I can squeeze a match or two in while my wife gets ready to leave and not be late for things is great.


1v1 is ALWAYS going to be quick matches. Especially if you don't take full head armor or stare at your opponent. There is no way to make 1v1 matches longer without seriously screwing 12 v 12 matches. I don't want them to extend matches in quickplay to 30 minutes because people aren't dying in 15.



TTK could be higher but the longer it takes to finish someone off the less ammo you have for the next guy and everyone will default to lasers or give up armor and engine size and heat sinks to bring more ammo.

It'll be like the repair/rearm days all over again as no one will want to take something ammo dependent.


Buffing the spread on SRMs would help encourage brawling which I think is a little bit of a counter to laser vomit.

Buffing the jam chance and heat on UACs would help punish the laser vomit players with long durations as they receive a few salvo's of damage even if it doesn't out trade them it'll certainly help.

[Koniving]

Xetelian, on 11 May 2018 - 07:34 PM, said:

SRMs have taken quite a few nerfings.

Ballistics are still hot and jam all the time.

There has got to be a way to make these better and able to compete with laser vomit instead of just making laser vomit worse.

I mean we could keep ramping up the power and damage of everything...
But for ballistics to compete, we need to be able to do 70 damage alphas... and to boost IS laser alphas by 10 damage to even be able to have a chance of competing with the dominant 70 alpha of the Clans.

And that's not getting into the even bigger alphas...