22 replies to this topic

[MM Overlord]

'cause I've just started this account and I'm quite tier 4 without shooting.
Yep, I did 10 matches and I never shot once.
I got assists and match points, without shooting.
ANd yes, I'm meeting tier 2 pilots, even though I'm tier 5..... but my psr bar is quite reaching tier 5, evenn though...I'm not shooting

Here the stats for 10 matches:


1) 2 assist 53ms
2) 75ms 5 assist (lol wat?)
3) 7ms no assist (overheating suicide)
4) 122ms 1 dmg 3 assists (LOL WAT??? 1 dmg??? I never shot)
5) Power down:28 match score...no assist
6) 38ms.. 1 team dmg???
7) 4 assists 75ms
8) 38ms 3 assists
9) 29 ms
10) 81ms 1 assist

Edited by MM Overlord, 26 May 2018 - 02:41 AM.

[Phoenix 72]

Just curious, why are you not shooting anybody? Pacifist?

[Thrudvangar]

Interesting...

Thinking about creating another account and try that out without shooting...hmm

[MM Overlord]

Darakor Stormwind, on 26 May 2018 - 03:09 AM, said:

Just curious, why are you not shooting anybody? Pacifist?

Nope, I'm doing an experiment demonstrating how PSR system and MM are at $h1t state.

The reason why solo q is...at the same sh1t level

Thrudvangar, on 26 May 2018 - 03:20 AM, said:

Interesting...

Thinking about creating another account and try that out without shooting...hmm

aaaaaaaaaaaand I'm tier FOUR!

surprise?

well, nope..... psr and MM are sh1t.

And I'm meeting tier 1 guys now.
Figure!

Edited by MM Overlord, 26 May 2018 - 04:35 AM.

[Phoenix 72]

A bit of a crap move for your team, though. They essentially have to cover the damage you would normally do, making victory more unlikely.

[Throe]

[deleted by user]

Edited by Throe, 09 November 2018 - 12:30 PM.

[Koniving]

Because... he's being carried by other people.

Side note: The fewer matches you have, the easier it is to go up in tiers.
Brand new account with decent skill can reach tier 1 in 200 matches or less.
Same skill on a 5 year old account with hundreds of thousands of matches... can barely move.

This is because how many matches you have increases the ratio your good matches are compared against, and diminishes how much you can move. Its like going from a slippery floor to quicksand and gradually sinking with every 50 matches you do. The idea is that you will eventually permanent reside "where you belong" over time... and as a fresh account you're jumped up and down quite radically as the game tries to guesstimate where you should be based on so little data...and as it piles up you can experience fewer and fewer swings until you're finally nestled in place.

[Phoenix 72]

I wonder how many people reported him for non participation. And what happens to him if anybody does.

[MM Overlord]

Throe, on 26 May 2018 - 09:49 AM, said:

As an experiment, I can respect what he's doing. While I wouldn't want him on my team, the data he's gathered is invaluable. This all begs the question though, why is this the case?

Koniving, on 26 May 2018 - 10:45 AM, said:

Because... he's being carried by other people.

Side note: The fewer matches you have, the easier it is to go up in tiers.
Brand new account with decent skill can reach tier 1 in 200 matches or less.
Same skill on a 5 year old account with hundreds of thousands of matches... can barely move.

This is because how many matches you have increases the ratio your good matches are compared against, and diminishes how much you can move. Its like going from a slippery floor to quicksand and gradually sinking with every 50 matches you do. The idea is that you will eventually permanent reside "where you belong" over time... and as a fresh account you're jumped up and down quite radically as the game tries to guesstimate where you should be based on so little data...and as it piles up you can experience fewer and fewer swings until you're finally nestled in place.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand this is false.

Despite I'm not shooting, I have better match scores and better w/l ratio than many players truly trying to shoot.

W/L 15/11 = 1.36 and 98 average matchscore.

This demonstrates a few things:

1) it's pretty ridiculous to put tier4-5 guys along with tier 1-2 players.
YES, I kindly asked in chat, and toooo many times I had tier 1-2 pilots in my matches. tier 1 ones 20% of matches, tier 2 EVERY match.
SO yes: russ & paul lied about MM.....which is not a novelty.

2) it demonstrates that no shooting activities are TOO HIGHLY rewarded than shooting skills.
It is a monstrusity that I'm leading to tier 4, psr bar quite filled, DESPITE I NEVER SHOT ONE TIME.


3) it demonstrates that EVERYONE can reach tier 3-2-1...doing esactly NOTHING.
Just standing there, clicking R, or bringing triple ams. And you go up in tiers.....
RIDICULOUS.

[zerosouL]

You can get plenty of match score from assists (you dont have to shoot the target, just be there for your teammate as a spotter/wingman) and other important teamplay stuff, not just shooting. Well, shooting is the easiest part to get good at anyway. Most BADs issues comes from poor positioning/map awareness.

And the reason that Tiers/elo just doesnt and wont work is small, tiny MWO playerbase. The only way to overcome poor matchmaker is to group up with good pilots and farm away

[MM Overlord]

zerosouL, on 27 May 2018 - 12:18 AM, said:

You can get plenty of match score from assists (you dont have to shoot the target, just be there for your teammate as a spotter/wingman) and other important teamplay stuff, not just shooting. Well, shooting is the easiest part to get good at anyway. Most BADs issues comes from poor positioning/map awareness.

And the reason that Tiers/elo just doesnt and wont work is small, tiny MWO playerbase. The only way to overcome poor matchmaker is to group up with good pilots and farm away

Yep, I started this thread 'cause I'm dropping solo 90% of matches, and I really cannot stand it anymore.

It's not that true that playerbase is so tiny.
Around 40.000 players had more than 10 drops this month.
So it should be possible to have drops with tier 1-2-3 ONLY, and without waiting so long.

Meanwhile an update:
1) 2 assist 53ms
2) 75ms 5 assist
3) 7ms zero assist (suicide)
4) 122 1 dmg 3 assists
5) Power down:28 match score
6) 38ms 1 team dmg???
7) 4 assists 75 ms
8) 38ms 3 assists
9) 29ms
10) 81ms 1 assist
11) 130ms 4 assis 1 dmg (?? Again??)
12) 164ms 0 dmg 5 assists (ams party)
13) 5dmg??? 193!!!!!!!!!!! WAT???
14) 52ms 3 assis
15) 229ms 9 assists LOL
16) 104ms 3 ASSISt
17) 92ms 5 assist...FAIR HELPER!!! LOLOL
18) 110ms 5assists
19) 101ms 1as
20) 55ms 2as
21) 151ms 7as
22) 187ms 9assists (tier 1 with 276ms 275 dmg 1kill 10 assists)
23) 88ms 1as
24) 147ms 7as
25) 108ms 1as
26) 107ms 5as 1 dmg


Look at match 22°: that tier 1 shooting at 10 enemies and killing 1, had only 276MS, while me, doing nothing, had 187!

Perfect example about HOW BAD psr system is.

Edited by MM Overlord, 27 May 2018 - 01:07 AM.

[MM Overlord]

Darakor Stormwind, on 26 May 2018 - 11:19 AM, said:

I wonder how many people reported him for non participation. And what happens to him if anybody does.

LOL WAT?

IF it would be true that I'm not partecipating, THEN I should not have such HIGH matchscores.

RIGHT?

I can imagine that the point about these experiment and thread, just jump over your head

Edited by MM Overlord, 27 May 2018 - 01:11 AM.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

MM Overlord, on 27 May 2018 - 01:10 AM, said:

I can imagine that the point about these experiment and thread, just jump over your head

It is just a very small sample size of 10 matches.
You got carried, could have been easily 10 crushing defeats instead.

[MM Overlord]

Toha Heavy Industries, on 27 May 2018 - 02:30 AM, said:

It is just a very small sample size of 10 matches.
You got carried, could have been easily 10 crushing defeats instead.

you should read below, not only first post.

I had 26 matches.
Yep I got carried BUT, AND THIS IS THE POINT OF THE THREAD, PSR SYSTEM THINK THAT I AM CARRYING.

I'm having more matchscores than most of ppl I drop with.
Also read about match n°22: I had 187 ms diong nothing, while the tier 1 guy, effectively trying to carry, had only 276.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

MM Overlord, on 27 May 2018 - 02:40 AM, said:

you should read below, not only first post.

I had 26 matches.
Yep I got carried BUT, AND THIS IS THE POINT OF THE THREAD, PSR SYSTEM THINK THAT I AM CARRYING.

I'm having more matchscores than most of ppl I drop with.
Also read about match n°22: I had 187 ms diong nothing, while the tier 1 guy, effectively trying to carry, had only 276.

I get what you're trying to tell, but 26 matches isn't a good sample size either.
You got your matchscore, either by locks or whatever.

Also, your tier does hardly matter at all.
Currently, with the low numbers of players, it's either t1-t4 or t2-t5.

I would also add that there is virtually no difference between a t1 and a t3 player in terms of actual playerskill.

Edited by Toha Heavy Industries, 27 May 2018 - 02:57 AM.

[BTGbullseye]

MM Overlord, on 27 May 2018 - 01:05 AM, said:

Perfect example about HOW BAD psr system is.

That's the Match Score system that's bad, not the PSR system. Not saying the PSR system is good, because it's not, just that it isn't the same system.

Actually, your experiment has shown that the Match Score system is working better than expected. Most people lament that non-damage based help is too poorly represented by the Match Score, however this proves that false.

[Cloves]

Toha Heavy Industries, on 27 May 2018 - 02:43 AM, said:

I get what you're trying to tell, but 26 matches isn't a good sample size either.
You got your matchscore, either by locks or whatever.

Also, your tier does hardly matter at all.
Currently, with the low numbers of players, it's either t1-t4 or t2-t5.

I would also add that there is virtually no difference between a t1 and a t3 player in terms of actual playerskill.

I disagree, but that’s also why I call myself a tier four player. There is a huge difference between my skill level and that of some of the tier ones out there.

But I guess there are probably tier 1 s that are out there that are worse, so I see your point. I guess we just don’t have enough players for PGI’s level of coding or they gave in to the folks whining about wait times too soon.

Edited by Cloves, 27 May 2018 - 04:11 AM.

[Koniving]

So I'm not seeing how what I said is false. You jump tiers much faster as a new player due to low match ratio. You're tier 4 and barely did anything, where some players have been in the tier 5 range after getting back, and no matter good they do they can't leave tier 5 because they have tens of thousands of matches in which only the recent ones have been judged as good...

Hundreds good, tens of thousands not judged... can't advance more than a tiny spec on the tier"experience bar." Said three people have been stuck in tier 5 for nearly two years without ever advancing.

Myself, I'm in tier 4 because I sank myself here, but as my match grows it becomes increasingly difficult to go up or down. I can have an 8 kill match with shitloads of match score, get a triple "pilot skill ^^^" triangle, and yet... the increase I get is barely 3 pixels wide. But you can see how many matches I have... I can't really move even if I really wanted to now.

But a new account I have has made tier 2 in 147 matches.

I can't go up tiers on my old account.
On my new one I'm tier 2 and the only thing I'm doing different is I'm using free mechs. I'm still doing my ******** heresy builds that people think are terrible.

Thus its easier to go up when the ratio of matches won versus matches played is very close. The further it goes, the worse it gets.

In the case of your test, you have a positive win to loss ratio and a new account with few matches played... and you've jumped to tier 4 in no time at all... meanwhile my friends which have been using laser vomit and averaging 4+ kills a match, in one case as high as 11, still can't get out of tier 5 and their bars are near the middle, near the 3/4ths, and in one case has been riding the line to get to tier 4 for over 11 months.

So how is what I said untrue?

[Koniving]

My statement is that the more matches you have, the less progress your increases and decreases in "PSR" you can make regardless of your skill.

New player, high jumps despite not doing thing, makes it tier 4 while still blue.
Old player, 10,000+ matches, can't get out of tier 5 for over 2 years.
Old player, 40,000 matches, has been on the border to get to tier 4 for over 11 months, still can't get into tier 4.
Old player, myself, 1,157 matches played, barely sees the PSR bar move 3 pixels after a series of really good matches.
Old player but NEW ACCOUNT, jumps to tier 2 doing the EXACT SAME THING... in 147 matches.

And then there's yourself... An assumingly old player on a new account, jumps to tier 4 in under 25 matches by doing nothing.
Shame you didn't name your account "Luigi."

[Phoenix 72]

MM Overlord, on 27 May 2018 - 01:10 AM, said:

I can imagine that the point about these experiment and thread, just jump over your head

NOTHING goes over my head!!!

My reflexes are too fast, I would catch it.



Thanks for the condescension, though, much appreciated.