43 replies to this topic

[AedanCousland]

Is there somewhere I can test different set ups before I buy? I'm not exactly made of money and can ill afford to buy a set up that doesn't work. What are Heavy Lasers like? Any good? They've never been in any of the previous Mechwarrior games that I remember, although sadly it's been a while since we had any.

[SilentFenris]

AedanCousland, on 26 May 2018 - 09:54 AM, said:

You've lost me? Do you mean counter?

No, 2xGauss 2xPPC is a great pairing. Both are long distance weapons with pin-point front loaded damage. Fire, twist/hide. Fire again, twist/hide. etc. With Lasers you have to keep your mech facing while the lasers burn and you end up being more vulnerable to your enemies return fire.

AedanCousland, on 26 May 2018 - 09:57 AM, said:

Is there somewhere I can test different set ups before I buy? I'm not exactly made of money and can ill afford to buy a set up that doesn't work. What are Heavy Lasers like? Any good? They've never been in any of the previous Mechwarrior games that I remember, although sadly it's been a while since we had any.

Sadly, not a feature.

[Phoenix 72]

More than 3 Large Pulse Lasers will cause crippling Ghost Heat (ie produce a lot more heat than it normally would). You can get around that by using a mixture of Large and Medium Lasers. Do not use a Laser AMS, it will just cause even more heat. In missile intensive battles, I have seen people unable to do anything because the LAMS alone racked up a crap load of heat.

MPL is Medium Pulse Laser. ERML is Extended Range Medium Laser.

[BTGbullseye]

Darakor Stormwind, on 26 May 2018 - 10:02 AM, said:

More than 3 Large Pulse Lasers will cause crippling Ghost Heat (ie produce a lot more heat than it normally would). You can get around that by using a mixture of Large and Medium Lasers. Do not use a Laser AMS, it will just cause even more heat. In missile intensive battles, I have seen people unable to do anything because the LAMS alone racked up a crap load of heat.

MPL is Medium Pulse Laser. ERML is Extended Range Medium Laser.

You mean 2x LPL... Clan have a lower limit for large class lasers.

[AedanCousland]

SilentFenris, on 26 May 2018 - 10:02 AM, said:

No, 2xGauss 2xPPC is a great pairing. Both are long distance weapons with pin-point front loaded damage. Fire, twist/hide. Fire again, twist/hide. etc. With Lasers you have to keep your mech facing while the lasers burn and you end up being more vulnerable to your enemies return fire.



Sadly, not a feature.

That's not going to work on this mech. It only has 2x Laser Hardpoints on each arm.

[BTGbullseye]

Which variant are you using?

[AedanCousland]

BTGbullseye, on 26 May 2018 - 10:17 AM, said:

Which variant are you using?

MCII-A.

[Koniving]

AedanCousland, on 26 May 2018 - 09:54 AM, said:

1) Can only fit 5 or 4 and an AMS/LAMS.
2) To fit four I'd need to drop the launchers to LRM 10s. That's an overall reduction in firepower.
3) I don't know this games terminology yet. What's MPL mean?

My playstyle I guess, is damage from a variety of ranges, hence the MCII. The big downfall with it though I think is it's a Battlemech so lacks the flexibility of its Omnimech brother, the original Timberwolf.

What advantage does only having two Large Pulse have? Stats say I'm dropping around 12 damage? I'm assuming there's a trade up to be had somewhere?

1) Can only fit 5 or 4 and an AMS/LAMS.
2) To fit four I'd need to drop the launchers to LRM 10s. That's an overall reduction in firepower.
3) I don't know this games terminology yet. What's MPL mean?

My playstyle I guess, is damage from a variety of ranges, hence the MCII. The big downfall with it though I think is it's a Battlemech so lacks the flexibility of its Omnimech brother, the original Timberwolf.

What advantage does only having two Large Pulse have? Stats say I'm dropping around 12 damage? I'm assuming there's a trade up to be had somewhere?

MPL is medium pulse laser.

If you have a large and 4 medium pulse lasers...
"If I drop the large and go 4x Med Pulse, drop the Heavy Machine Guns and add an AC, the size of which depends on the size of missiles I fit."
Which I read wrong, I thought you had an LPL (large pulse laser) and 4 MPL (medium pulse lasers) as the original weapon setup. Which sharp shooting "from a safe sniping spot" would be pretty hampered with that loadout...

LRM-10s are 2.5 tons if I'm not mistaken. LRM-15s 3.5 tons. What could you possibly be carrying that is so heavy?

I mean I had 2 LPL (12 tons), 3 ER ML (3 tons), 2 ATM-12 (14 tons) + ammo and enough heatsinks to get 80% cooling efficiency (1.6 on MWO's cooling efficiency scale).... so I'm guessing the issue is perhaps the stock engine? You know you can change the engine, right?
Edit math corrected for 5 energy hardpoints.

Edited by Koniving, 26 May 2018 - 10:36 AM.

[SilentFenris]

SilentFenris, on 26 May 2018 - 10:02 AM, said:

No, 2xGauss 2xPPC is a great pairing. Both are long distance weapons with pin-point front loaded damage. Fire, twist/hide. Fire again, twist/hide. etc. With Lasers you have to keep your mech facing while the lasers burn and you end up being more vulnerable to your enemies return fire.

AedanCousland, on 26 May 2018 - 10:20 AM, said:

MCII-A.

Giving your variant model upfront can help people help you.

[Koniving]

As far as the weapons...

2 LPL is 24 damage + 3 ER ML is 21 damage.. So that's 45 damage per laser alpha. They're very compatible in terms of range and duration so they blend well.

Backed with 2 LMGs, these generate no heat, use the same hit-scan detection (no travel time, instant hit, do not lead the target and ignore the particle effect) as the lasers so during the laser beams you'll get an additional 1.4 damage give or take for free...Plus they can keep firing even when the lasers stop so you could let that drag on for a bit.

And the twin ATM-12s can bring the pain at 24 to 72 damage for all 24 missiles depending on the range to the target. It is also worth noting that ATMs have longer max range than LRMs.

So altogether that's about 118.4 damage that you could deliver all within the time that those lasers need to finish firing given the perfect circumstances and distance to target.

Edit: Math was corrected to reflect 5 energy hardpoints as opposed to 6.

Edited by Koniving, 26 May 2018 - 10:38 AM.

[AedanCousland]

Koniving, on 26 May 2018 - 10:24 AM, said:

MPL is medium pulse laser.

If you have a large and 4 medium pulse lasers...
"If I drop the large and go 4x Med Pulse, drop the Heavy Machine Guns and add an AC, the size of which depends on the size of missiles I fit."
Which I read wrong, I thought you had an LPL (large pulse laser) and 4 MPL (medium pulse lasers) as the original weapon setup. Which sharp shooting "from a safe sniping spot" would be pretty hampered with that loadout...

LRM-10s are 2.5 tons if I'm not mistaken. LRM-15s 3.5 tons. What could you possibly be carrying that is so heavy?

I mean I had 2 LPL (12 tons), 4 ER ML (4 tons), 2 ATM-12 (14 tons) + ammo and enough heatsinks to get 80% cooling efficiency (1.6 on MWO's cooling efficiency scale).... so I'm guessing the issue is perhaps the stock engine? You know you can change the engine, right?

No I dropped the large Pulse and fitted an ERML so I could fit an LAMS, so I currently have 2 x ERLL, 2 x MPL and 1 x ERML. Tonnage is not the issue, weapon slots are. I'm not married to this Mech btw, if anyone wants to recommend others, I'm happy to take a look. Also, what are heavy lasers like?

Edited by AedanCousland, 26 May 2018 - 10:33 AM.

[Koniving]

Long laser burn times, but hefty damage.

[CFC Conky]

Welcome to MWO Aedan!

If I may add a bit to the discussion, doing damage at various ranges usually means a 'bracket' build. Many on these forums will say that these builds are usually less efficient at dealing damage than ones where weapon ranges are closer.

That said, by all means, play the build you want to play.

My preferred max engagement range is ~400m so for me a workable build would be 5xMPL, 2XASRM6 (Artemis SRM6), MGs to taste. The build will leave you with a lot of spare tonnage which you can use for a larger engine. It's more of a short-range build but it suits my play style (sustained fire vs large alpha).

A LPL/ERML combination is also a good option since the weapons have relatively close effective ranges. What you do with the spare tonnage is up to you. What I have noticed is that many popular MCII builds use an XL350 engine, so that might be worth looking at as well.

Oh, and I usually forgo ams, with time you'll learn how to avoid most missile damage through better positioning and you can then use the tonnage for other things.

Builds are a very personal thing, some go for the meta, other for the fun.

Good hunting,
CFC conky

Edited by CFC Conky, 26 May 2018 - 11:38 AM.

[BTGbullseye]

This is a build I've used to great effect... Fire the left pair and right pair of cLPL separately, so you don't get Ghost Heat. Missiles for suppression, and additional damage.

MCII-A

This is definitely something you use to poke and hide.

Edited by BTGbullseye, 26 May 2018 - 10:59 AM.

[AedanCousland]

CFC Conky, on 26 May 2018 - 10:53 AM, said:

Welcome to MWO Aedan!

If I may add a bit to the discussion, doing damage at various ranges usually means a 'bracket' build. Many on these forums will say that these builds are usually less efficient at dealing damage than ones where weapon ranges are closer.

That said, by all means, play the build you want to play.

My preferred max engagement range is ~400m so for me a workable build would be 5xMPL, 2XASRM6 (Artemis SRM6), MGs to taste. The build will leave you with a lot of spare tonnage which you can use for a larger engine. It's more of a short-range build but it suits my play style (sustained fire vs large alpha).

A LPL/ERML combination is also a good option since the weapons have relatively close effective ranges. What you do with the spare tonnage is up to you. What I have noticed is that many popular MCII builds use an XL350 engine, so that might be worth looking at as well.

Oh, and I usually forgo ams, with time you'll learn how to avoid most missile damage through better positioning and you can then use the tonnage for other things.

Builds are a very personal thing, some go for the meta, other for the fun.

Good hunting,
CFC conky

Thank you. Perhaps I wasn't clear. I'm not suggesting I want to be effective at all ranges, I mean I like the idea of being able to apply consistent pressure as you approach a target, the very description of a Timberwolf/Madcat II. I've played Mechwarrior games since MW2 and the Timberwolf has always been my favourite.

BTGbullseye, on 26 May 2018 - 10:58 AM, said:

This is a build I've used to great effect... Fire the left pair and right pair of cLPL separately, so you don't get Ghost Heat. Missiles for suppression, and additional damage.

MCII-A

This is definitely something you use to poke and hide.

Does that not run incredibly hot?

[BTGbullseye]

AedanCousland, on 26 May 2018 - 11:45 AM, said:

Does that not run incredibly hot?

It does, but cools very quickly. The missiles are for your cooldown times, so you can keep up the pressure on the cooldowns.

[CFC Conky]

AedanCousland, on 26 May 2018 - 11:45 AM, said:

Thank you. Perhaps I wasn't clear. I'm not suggesting I want to be effective at all ranges, I mean I like the idea of being able to apply consistent pressure as you approach a target, the very description of a Timberwolf/Madcat II. I've played Mechwarrior games since MW2 and the Timberwolf has always been my favourite.

Hi Aedan,

Got it, thanks. Another option for your mech would be to mount a Gauss rifle in addition to 2xLPL and 3xERML. You can carry three tons of Gauss ammo which is plenty for quickplay imo, and the build is relatively cool if you load up on heat sinks. The Gauss will give you reach without exposing yourself too much and your laser vomit, if not huge, is certainly nothing to sneeze at.

I mostly drop in quickplay so my builds reflect this.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[Spare Parts Bin]

I like one LPL with 2-3 ERMLs. I also like LBX-2 and UAC-5s together. Good luck to the OP and welcome to MWO.

[Cloves]

AedanCousland, on 26 May 2018 - 09:57 AM, said:

Is there somewhere I can test different set ups before I buy? I'm not exactly made of money and can ill afford to buy a set up that doesn't work. What are Heavy Lasers like? Any good? They've never been in any of the previous Mechwarrior games that I remember, although sadly it's been a while since we had any.

The closest thing to this are the Trial Mechs. There should be at least one example of most weapon types to see if it's a good fit for you. For example, I, like many here, am older and have not the co-ordination to use Gauss or PPC at long range. Luckily, there is a short range PPC available to the IS, that I tried since I knew why I do not like the typical weapon.

Many folks used to recommend certain mediums not because they where competitive, but because they where cheap and taught certain skills very well. To this day I enjoy playing a centurion or a hunchback because the centi has a big shield arm and the hunchback has good firepower for it's era, but it's all in one shoulder, so you sacrifice the rest of the mech to keep that weapon system. Neither is likely to get top damage in a game, but they are fun to play and keep you working on your fundamentals far better than playing a hide and snipe mech. They also are better for your win/loss ratio because every person on your team that hides and snipes will actually speed the death of their comrades, this also applies to LRM weapons, which do not require LOS to use so often folks hang out at the extreme range of the weapon system hiding behind a rock. The travel time of the missiles make them less effective further out, and there are many systems to improve their performance that only work with direct LOS.

Lastly, I am glad you are not learning on Lights, but assults are almost as hard. The issue with assaults is the fact that they move so slowly. This means you may find yourself left behind in a NASCAR rotation, or just out of position in general. To use them well requires map knowledge and being able to predict the battle flow. Both these skills take a bit of time, but luckily we only have a few maps and you can explore them at will outside of combat. The battle flow thing you will get eventually, and boils down to human nature (we tend to do the same dumb things on the same maps over and over).

Best of Luck and I hope you enjoy he game!

[AedanCousland]

Save me making another post, quick question. Can I remove skills from a Mech if I decide I no longer wish to use that Mech?