33 replies to this topic

[OmniFail]

I have launched more than 7 million lurms and I am telling you bro that if ever load out that could possibly take AMS took AMS not only LRMs would be extinct but all missiles would be extinct within a month.

[yrrot]

I actually wonder what that Nova-S(C) build would do fully skilled out with triple AMS against SRMs/MRMs. With all of the AMS quirks and the two nodes from survival tree, I feel like it would at least put a dent in the damage output there. But, again, you're relying on the enemy to have any missile weapons. It's just hard to justify putting a mech together specifically for that purpose.

At least with the kit fox, you have ECM to get yourself somewhere useful with the triple AMS.

Overall, though, I don't think it's an either/or thing. ECM has plenty of counters, so you might as well also pack an AMS--even it if it just has a half ton of ammo.

[Khobai]

Dragonporn, on 27 May 2018 - 05:23 AM, said:

why would people ever run something like triple AMS.

because look at that match score

I dont remember the exact number but I shot down 1500-2000 missiles that game

which boosts your match score considerably

Quote

it's just pure and absolutely criminal waste of slots and tonnage, isn't it?

2 CAMS+ammo and 1 CLAMS is only like 3 tons. What other 3 ton investment can passively boost your match score by like 200-300 points?

its only a waste if you dont know what youre doing. but you can never go wrong with 3 ams on a kitfox IMO.

Kanil, on 27 May 2018 - 03:18 PM, said:

People bring triple AMS so they can tell themselves "I'm helping!" without having to do anything hard like shoot the other team or expose themselves.

you are completely wrong. bringing triple ams doesnt mean you arnt shooting the other team. and there are plenty of coward players without AMS that dont shoot the enemy team.

and you dont bring it over ECM. you take both triple AMS and ECM.

being able to do both decent damage and manipulate match score via ams/ecm/scouting is what the kitfox excels at.

Edited by Khobai, 27 May 2018 - 09:13 PM.

[BTGbullseye]

yrrot, on 27 May 2018 - 08:46 PM, said:

I actually wonder what that Nova-S(C) build would do fully skilled out with triple AMS against SRMs/MRMs. With all of the AMS quirks and the two nodes from survival tree, I feel like it would at least put a dent in the damage output there.

Each AMS would take down 1-2 missiles... If all you're up against is a single SRM6, then that's significant, but if you're up against a pair of MRM40's... Not worth it.

Edited by BTGbullseye, 27 May 2018 - 08:52 PM.

[Bishop Six]

In QP everything is unfounded because of no tactic, no teamplay (Solo), too short time.

In FP you build your mechs for specific maps/modes so you can ask Clanners how they like our unit's tactic to bring EVERYONE at least 1 AMS with us on Caustic/Polar/Alpine....it is 80 % autowin because Clanners and Lurms you know...

Edited by Bishop Six, 28 May 2018 - 12:57 AM.

[Dragonporn]

To think about it, yes, in group or faction play, something like triple AMS Nova or Kit Fox might come in handy, since you know the loadout of other 11 guys, and bringing this one AMS boat with pee shooter will be able to protect whole team from any kinds of long ranged missile attacks, so nobody needs to spend their own tonnage and slots for extra AMS. Solo queue is different story however. We already had lots of threads about players asking if support builds are any viable. The most common and accurate answer they get is: no, absolutely not viable. Full blown support builds simply don't work in Solo QP.

El Bandito, on 27 May 2018 - 10:25 AM, said:

ECM is also good at info denial, but it can be easily cancelled by PPCs, UAVs, NARCs, and Active Probes, first two are especially common in a QP match. AMS cannot be hard countered, in comparison. I know AMS is very situational, but so far I have not regretted bringing one in a match.

Not really. Being hit by PPC has very short turn off period, just dive behind a rock, and you're good to go again. UAVs, well, use your eyes, don't stand under UAV, or kill it, which isn't really that hard considering its health. Probes are funny. On Streaks maybe they can be annoying for ECM, but that's the only way for them to be viable, although for LRM/ATM boats - completely useless, it works in hug distance, and when it cancels your ECM, they can't damage you either way. Narcs are the only really nasty counter for ECM, that is true, but coming across Narc carrier mech in QP is the same thing as meeting goddamn unicorn on a highway, and skillful Narc carrier is even less realistic to meet.

@Khobai
Well, guess some people play for score boosting almost exclusively, and that's interesting hobby, but:
1. Not everyone is obsessed over scores (especially since that kind of boosting doesn't really contribute much actual help)
2. That would be funny to see someone boosting score like that on maps like HPG, Solaris City, Rubellite and few more. Picking up such build and praying you'll end up on Polar with half of enemy team being super-heavy lurm boats doesn't seem very inspiring...

Edited by Dragonporn, 28 May 2018 - 05:32 AM.

[yrrot]

BTGbullseye, on 27 May 2018 - 08:51 PM, said:

Each AMS would take down 1-2 missiles... If all you're up against is a single SRM6, then that's significant, but if you're up against a pair of MRM40's... Not worth it.

Sure, a pair of MRM 40s being shot at the AMS boat isn't going to be impacted all that much. The main value there is probably if they are shooting past the AMS boat towards an assault mech (like when you are around a corner choke point). Only shooting down 10 missiles out of that volley is still 1/8th of the damage.

Meh, either way, it would still be fun to watch that build shoot AMS against it with the +30% AMS ROF quirks.

[Lykaon]

Dragonporn, on 28 May 2018 - 05:13 AM, said:

To think about it, yes, in group or faction play, something like triple AMS Nova or Kit Fox might come in handy, since you know the loadout of other 11 guys, and bringing this one AMS boat with pee shooter will be able to protect whole team from any kinds of long ranged missile attacks, so nobody needs to spend their own tonnage and slots for extra AMS. Solo queue is different story however. We already had lots of threads about players asking if support builds are any viable. The most common and accurate answer they get is: no, absolutely not viable. Full blown support builds simply don't work in Solo QP.

Kitfox (P)...

4 clan ER-Medium lasers
2 clan SRM4s
ECM
3 AMS w/3 tons ammo
TAG (optional to use this one ton for more DHS/Ammo/another laser etc)
Max armor
11 DHS

That's a 44 firepower light mech and a support platform.

The thing about quick play is your team will have some degree of ineptitude. You will frequently have that Annihilator pilot who doesn't start their mech until 15 seconds after everyone else has left the drop zone. You will frequently have an assault mech Lurm boat on the team who wants to sit waaay in the back and be an easy kill for enemy flanker lights. and you will have team mates who can't find decent cover from enemy LRMs without direct instructions on how to do so (and as you hold their hand your AMS will reduce the damage they take).

A well utilized support mech can mitigate a great deal of team mate stupid and still provide significant firepower.The trick is balancing the support utility without overly compromising combat performance.

Here are a few more useful "support" builds.


Crab 27 (Inner Sphere vanguard skirmisher)

Endo steel
Lt ferro
280 LFE
13 DHS
2 Large Lasers
3 Medium Lasers
2 AMS w/ 3 tons ammo
max armor


Atlas - K (vanguard assault)

340 LFE
Lt Ferro
14 DHS
4 medium lasers
AC20 w/ 4 tons ammo
MRM40 w/ 3.5 tons ammo
2 AMS w/ 2 tons ammo
Max armor.

Firestarter S (counter skirmisher)

280XL
Endo
Lt- ferro
2 jump jets
12 DHS
6 medium lasers
2 AMS w/2 tons ammo
Max armor (-1 head)

[BTGbullseye]

Dragonporn, on 28 May 2018 - 05:13 AM, said:

but coming across Narc carrier mech in QP is the same thing as meeting goddamn unicorn on a highway, and skillful Narc carrier is even less realistic to meet.

I must be the ultimate king of unicorn hunters than, because I seem to come up with at least 1 excellent NARCer every 20 or so matches in QP.

[ShiverMeRivets]

I welcome AMS on my team. It is great to see a full LRM salvo gets evaporated and non of it reaches the ground. I can only imagine the frustration of the LRM boat that has been reduced into uselessness, and smile. Next match he may load some better weapons. Of course, the end result may be that PGI buffs LRM "to make them more viable" again, instead of making them more useless.

[Bishop Six]

BTGbullseye, on 28 May 2018 - 02:18 PM, said:

I must be the ultimate king of unicorn hunters than, because I seem to come up with at least 1 excellent NARCer every 20 or so matches in QP.

Hey! Hallo! Its me!
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But i dont play QP

[Dragonporn]

Today I met triple AMS plus ECM Kit Fox... aaand we dropped on HPG, it was so adorable.

[SuperMCDad]

yrrot, on 27 May 2018 - 08:46 PM, said:

I actually wonder what that Nova-S(C) build would do fully skilled out with triple AMS against SRMs/MRMs. With all of the AMS quirks and the two nodes from survival tree, I feel like it would at least put a dent in the damage output there. But, again, you're relying on the enemy to have any missile weapons. It's just hard to justify putting a mech together specifically for that purpose.

Testing has been done. Have a look at Larsh's video.

[BTGbullseye]

SuperMCDad, on 29 May 2018 - 05:16 PM, said:

Testing has been done. Have a look at Larsh's video.

Y'know, I was getting 900+ missiles destroyed with a single LAMS in my MCII-4 with LRMs back when it was first released... I'm surprised he scored so low.

Edited by BTGbullseye, 29 May 2018 - 05:55 PM.