78 replies to this topic

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

clop1000, on 31 May 2018 - 12:50 AM, said:

Is it worth it - to strip all the back armor and put in on the front? (CT,LT,RT)

I never run over 2 points on the rear.

[FupDup]

clop1000, on 31 May 2018 - 12:50 AM, said:

Is it worth it - to strip all the back armor and put in on the front? (CT,LT,RT)

A challenge you can try is to increase your frontal armor by +1 every time you die from the front and increase your rear armor by +1 every time you die from the rear. Do that over at least a dozen or two dozen matches and see where you end up.

Spoiler alert, you'll probably end up decreasing your rear armor by a lot in this challenge.

Edited by FupDup, 31 May 2018 - 09:42 AM.

[El Bandito]

Asym, on 30 May 2018 - 04:23 AM, said:

SIGH....... Once again, we're mixing apples and oranges... There never was suppose to be "balance" between the systems... IS and Clan are opposing military philosophies and their weapon systems reflect that.

SO, when you fail to really understand that theory or, in PGI's case, ignored it from the start since this is a money making event, not an expose of "lore" or the TT's TOE, you get chaos because everyone wants what they want and if one side "likes" an IS chassis they immediately want Clan parity.........after all life is suppose to be fair, right?

Doesn't really matter what you think. What matters that Solaris is being IS biased because PGI's balance philosophy was wrong fundamentally--despite my repeated attempts at correcting them. And now Solaris showing their flaws in all their glory. PGI was wrong, Clan apologists were wrong, and Solaris is lacking in competitive Clan mechs cause of that.

[El Bandito]

JC Daxion, on 30 May 2018 - 05:59 AM, said:

and yet in comp play clans still basically rule because of ranged combat.

It's far more a map thing IMO

In addition, range advantage is multiplied exponentially the more players are shooting at each other. Which is why Clan mechs really shine in 8v8 to 12v12. In Solaris it is just 1v1. Which brings back to my point of lack of tech balance had bred IS mech that are specialized in quirks--quirks that are too powerful in 1v1 fights.

Balance the tech first, and you balance the number of competitive mechs in Solaris, and Comp queue.

Edited by El Bandito, 01 June 2018 - 05:42 AM.

[Khobai]

so can we remove solaris from the game now and focus on improving quickplay and factionplay?

[Mystere]

Khobai, on 01 June 2018 - 05:56 AM, said:

so can we remove solaris and quickplay from the game now and focus on improving quickplay and factionplay?

FTFY.

[MischiefSC]

FupDup, on 30 May 2018 - 07:13 PM, said:

Just want to point out here that IS tech never got buffed or patched in TT to equal the Clans. They got a few unique toys like Plasma Rifle and TSEMP that the Clans don't have a counterpart of, but any item that does have a Clan counterpart (the majority of the arsenal) is always inferior regardless of era. For example, the IS never builds any PPC that can equal the Clan ERPPC. IS ERML never equals the Clan ERML. Etc.

The IS might sidestep the issue somewhat by just building Clan tech instead of IS tech, but that's not the same as IS tech being equal to Clan tech.

But yes, in MWO the factions should be balanced via buffing or nerfing or whatever.

No, it became Clan tech. IS makes its own CXL engines, its own CEndo, CFF, it's own CERPPCs. That's how IS tech got 'buffed'. There was only one tech and it was Clan tech. Each faction of Clan and IS had some unique stuff but otherwise you had everyone using Clan tech - at which point it's not really Clan tech, is it?

You have IS factions like Marik producing Omnimechs using almost exclusively Clan tech and being produced in Marik space.

The solution used in TT was to just make Clan and IS tech a 'class' of weapon or equipment that everyone could make and just make it all mixed tech. Totally mixed tech; as in Clan and IS were both producing all Clan/IS equipment and weapons and the only reason IS tech was used in weapons was the same reason you had 3025 mechs with terrible loadouts (GHR has a LRM5 in the head. Really?) it was a means to keep things from getting as unbalanced as they get when players just use what actually works best.

So without balancing tech you ensure a broken, unbalanced game.

El Bandito, on 01 June 2018 - 05:35 AM, said:

Doesn't really matter what you think. What matters that Solaris is being IS biased because PGI's balance philosophy was wrong fundamentally--despite my repeated attempts at correcting them. And now Solaris showing their flaws in all their glory. PGI was wrong, Clan apologists were wrong, and Solaris is lacking in competitive Clan mechs cause of that.

Change it to 1 division for each weight class and 1 division with all mechs allowed.

What mechs would be top performers in each division?

[El Bandito]

MischiefSC, on 01 June 2018 - 06:51 AM, said:

Change it to 1 division for each weight class and 1 division with all mechs allowed.

What mechs would be top performers in each division?

Dakka Anni for assault class, Dakka Jager/MRM IV-FOUR for heavy class, SRM Kintaro/Bushwacker for medium class, light class is a real tossup between several mechs, mostly among IS mechs and Piranha/Splat Jenner-IIC--72 damage at point blank can spell a bad day to any Light.

I think.

Edited by El Bandito, 01 June 2018 - 07:31 AM.

[Stinger554]

El Bandito, on 01 June 2018 - 06:58 AM, said:

SRM Kintaro/Bushwacker for medium class,

8 srm 6 Huntsman is a heavy contender for mediums. At least it can easily beat bushwackers, not fought a SRM kintaro with it yet.

[El Bandito]

Stinger554, on 01 June 2018 - 07:20 AM, said:

8 srm 6 Huntsman is a heavy contender for mediums. At least it can easily beat bushwackers, not fought a SRM kintaro with it yet.

Haven't fought such a build so no comment. It does look very powerful.

[Jackal Noble]

Stinger554, on 01 June 2018 - 07:20 AM, said:

8 srm 6 Huntsman is a heavy contender for mediums. At least it can easily beat bushwackers, not fought a SRM kintaro with it yet.

No, not really. Huntsman is a good mech, just not on the bushies level.
A competent Bushwhacker pilot will walk right through a Huntsman.
What's easier than legging a Bushwacker? Legging a Huntsman.

[Steve Pryde]

Old MW4 Ranger, on 30 May 2018 - 02:04 AM, said:

by lore ...in this sense only IS Mechs in Solaris
is a pure IS Arena world and Clans not play in it...this Guys fight to conquerd the IS..and captured Clanmechs going not to Solaris ...more a Break thats PGI let Clanmechs in it and not say IS only or Clan only (and for Clans own Arenas with own rules)

Solaris is already dead and you want it separate even more?

[Nightbird]

Mobility in a game mode that kills mobility is underwhelming? Save us captain obvious!

[Haipyng]

Nightbird, on 01 June 2018 - 11:14 AM, said:

Mobility in a game mode that kills mobility is underwhelming? Save us captain obvious!

[Stinger554]

JackalBeast, on 01 June 2018 - 10:06 AM, said:

No, not really. Huntsman is a good mech, just not on the bushies level.
A competent Bushwhacker pilot will walk right through a Huntsman.
What's easier than legging a Bushwacker? Legging a Huntsman.

Never had a problem myself using Huntsman but eh might just be because most people are bad at this game(but there's a reason Huntsman is in Div1 and Bushie isn't ).



.

El Bandito, on 01 June 2018 - 07:29 AM, said:

Haven't fought such a build so no comment. It does look very powerful.

It is too bad it requires Hero Omnipods

Also try not to alpha

[SmokedJag]

Stinger554, on 01 June 2018 - 07:20 AM, said:

8 srm 6 Huntsman is a heavy contender for mediums. At least it can easily beat bushwackers, not fought a SRM kintaro with it yet.

Needs hero pods to mount that unique build, which puts it in the same boat as the 8xAC Dire Wolf. Where the Clan 'Mech can beat its IS meta opponent through raw guns if and only if they have the pay 'Mech. Get drop + more guns = overcome IS armor quirks.

To be fair, the Huntsman v. Bushie fight also has a lot to do with piloting and tactics vs. the whale v. Godzilla ungainly mating display.

[LordBraxton]

SmokedJag, on 01 June 2018 - 12:25 PM, said:

Needs hero pods to mount that unique build, which puts it in the same boat as the 8xAC Dire Wolf. Where the Clan 'Mech can beat its IS meta opponent through raw guns if and only if they have the pay 'Mech. Get drop + more guns = overcome IS armor quirks.

To be fair, the Huntsman v. Bushie fight also has a lot to do with piloting and tactics vs. the whale v. Godzilla ungainly mating display.

That goes for both sides. The only meta Cyclops is the dual Hgauss which is the hero. Also have you noticed how 75% of IS mechs do NOT have torso armor quirks? The only usable IS mechs are the ones with armor this is true, but they are also slow and undergunned.

[Stinger554]

SmokedJag, on 01 June 2018 - 12:25 PM, said:

To be fair, the Huntsman v. Bushie fight also has a lot to do with piloting and tactics vs. the whale v. Godzilla ungainly mating display.

Which is why I said it's a contender not the top dog.

[Daurock]

MischiefSC, on 01 June 2018 - 06:51 AM, said:

What mechs would be top performers in each division?

Good question

My bets would be on
Anni, Because its pretty much already there now
One of the Orion Variants for heavies. (or possibly a Dakka Gyr) Right now thesre aren't seen much because they are placed in divisions where they are regularly asked to attempt to take out Assaults, which usually do the same thing they do, only with more armor and firepower. In similar fashion, these mechs should clean up the slightly faster, but less armored and armed, heavy division.
Bushwacker, because of huge armor quirks, and the ability to run a lot of SRMs.
Who knows what in the light class (Something MG or SRM based I would guess, but honestly its probably all about the pilot here.)

As for the overall balance, The thing I notice is that you need a LOT of guns to plow through the extra armor found on those division dominating IS mechs. Since surprisingly few Clan mechs capable of that kind of firepower are found in those divisions, it kind of makes sense that they wouldn't do so great. For Example - A lot of the heavily armed (for the tonnage) clan mechs, such as the Night Gyr, or Ebon Jag,are found in Division 2. Their loadouts could probably be made to take down even an armor-quirked IS heavy pretty quickly. However, they run smak dab into the Kodiaks, Attlai, and King Crabs, and are unceremoniously stomped by the Assaults. They aren't going to climb to the top of the divisions doing that.

[Gas Guzzler]

I don't play Solaris so I can't comment and I don't care.

Hell, I barely play this game and don't even know why I am here.