31 replies to this topic

[Prototelis]

Catnium, on 02 June 2018 - 10:08 AM, said:

no But i'd like it if ppl started to play MWO instead of Mech turret online..

no body knows wtf a brawl is anymore

I have no difficulty finding brawls in qp.

Stop mindlessly rushing into a red firing line and you'll live long enough to enjoy them too.

[LowSubmarino]

Ever since they opened up the MM I see weird stuff that only beginners would do.

On Polar, two assaults split off (we were all running towards theta which is were most main engagements occur) to go capping.

One of our assaults was discoed.

So we had one assault at the front line.

When those two went to cap by themselves I told them:

'Dont go capping in assaults. Youll be completly useless and well be outnumbered at theta.....'

They replied:

'Somebody has to cap'

And happily crawled far away from team. Taking themselves out of the match.

We got massacred at theta.

I havent seen this kind of play for years in mwo.

Not on this level.

[Mystere]

LordBraxton, on 01 June 2018 - 01:40 PM, said:

8v8 is superior simply because as an individual you have greater influence over the success or failure of the match.

People who think 8v8 will reduce stomps are in for a rude awakening every single time a reasonably competent player is on the other team.

Besh, on 02 June 2018 - 03:00 AM, said:

It seems like some people decided SoloQP to be what you describe it to be , and now everyone has to accept that is all there is to it, and thats that ?

QP was originally intended to be a filler and not be "The Game". But the highly acclaimed MVP principle demands that it be the latter.

Edited by Mystere, 02 June 2018 - 02:17 PM.

[AEgg]

8v8 won't reduce stomps, but it does make being on the wrong end of one a tiny bit more manageable. Less players means it takes a larger percentage of the team being grouped up to reach 'critical mass' where any mech approaching the group or rounding the wrong corner basically dies instantly.

[Besh]

Mystere, on 02 June 2018 - 02:09 PM, said:

QP was originally intended to be a filler and not be "The Game". But the highly acclaimed MVP principle demands that it be the latter.

Yeah. I've been here a while . But as it is now, for many people it is their prime Game Mode, and even though it is being decried over and over, Teamplay in QP does matter for people .

AEgg, on 02 June 2018 - 02:45 PM, said:

8v8 won't reduce stomps, but it does make being on the wrong end of one a tiny bit more manageable. Less players means it takes a larger percentage of the team being grouped up to reach 'critical mass' where any mech approaching the group or rounding the wrong corner basically dies instantly.

Funny enough, individual skill matters much more with lesser numbers . Strange, I know .

Edited by Besh, 02 June 2018 - 02:51 PM.

[JudauAshta]

stomps happen because of passive players
too many cowards in assaults and heavies just sitting around.

[Dogstar]

Once more for the people at the back

[Noey Bunny]

Dogstar, on 03 June 2018 - 02:31 AM, said:

Once more for the people at the back

Again, saying 'stomps are normal' isn't empirical and doesn't really provide any context. your writing is nice, and it's a well thought out statement in it's own regard, but it's just your opinion, you introduce nothing of actual value to your debate, so relying on it so heavy is you just saying 'my opinion is better than yours'; which is an unsurprisingly common notion.

While this topic has been surprisingly civil, which is very pleasant; there are few valid points being approached. saying '8v8 can't reduce the likelihood of a stomp' is bonkers. Disregarding all of the other positive notions that 8v8 can bring. (And yes, there are some negatives as well)- simply shoring up the matchmaking parameters allows the system to find more evenly balanced pilots to place against eachother. THIS ALONE would reduce the occurrence; and has a similarly quantitative effect to that of simply having a larger community base for the matchmaker to pull from.

If I'm wrong, which I very well may be; then it should be trivial to produce empirical data that evidences flaws in my hypothesis. However, none such data has been collected, or produced; ergo the hypothesis still stands that 8v8 will reduce the frequency of stomps.

However- I like the topical transaction of people who are willing to talk about it; the notions of other potential problems that could pop up when reverting to 8v8 systems for qp; like individual players having more weight in a match leading to carrying.

[Asym]

Brain Cancer, on 01 June 2018 - 04:58 PM, said:

8v8 means any given player has a bigger chance of influencing the match.

That right there makes it more appealing, because MWO QP is about carrying a team to begin with. There's more room on my back for seven players than eleven.

I don't think that QP was meant to be the "new ex-FP farming exercise" Brain.... As said before, as populations get smaller, the less-skilled leave first, because they have less attachment to the game and the vet players are all that are left....

Those vet players grew up "farming" and "seal clubbing"...... Any new player trying MWO is exposed to the "condensed" version of the culture that is left.......and, all you all want to do is farm....

8x8 is just a faster way to farm. Yes, as many have said, 8x8 makes one players actions more valuable or decisive for good or ill. That means, since there is a HUGE skill difference in the player base, those 2 new pilots are going to get massacred every game and that team will be stomped most games.... Especially, since MM just isn't doing anything.

No, Leave QP alone: it's literally all many of us have left.

[Noey Bunny]

Asym, on 03 June 2018 - 04:14 AM, said:

I don't think that QP was meant to be the "new ex-FP farming exercise" Brain.... As said before, as populations get smaller, the less-skilled leave first, because they have less attachment to the game and the vet players are all that are left....

Those vet players grew up "farming" and "seal clubbing"...... Any new player trying MWO is exposed to the "condensed" version of the culture that is left.......and, all you all want to do is farm....

8x8 is just a faster way to farm. Yes, as many have said, 8x8 makes one players actions more valuable or decisive for good or ill. That means, since there is a HUGE skill difference in the player base, those 2 new pilots are going to get massacred every game and that team will be stomped most games.... Especially, since MM just isn't doing anything.

No, Leave QP alone: it's literally all many of us have left.

I agree, that if they don't change the matchmaking algorithm while reducing the player pool per match, it would only exacerbate the problem. We desperately need new palyers in the game if it's going to be sustainable for PGI. I feel it when I get a long queue time and am placed to fill a lower tier match, the skill difference between even me (at PSR2) vs PSR4 pilots is insurmountable, and I remember dealing with that very circumstance with things like LRMS when I was a wee thing and didn't know how to deal with them; I thought 'there's no way, this is broken' I simply didn't understand.

though, once again, smaller matches allow the MM System to be more choosy; It should be pointed out that PSR is a terrible system to rank players again. Match Score is heavily guided by Win/Loss and mech tonnage. Hopefully this system would be adjusted (though, who knows if that will ever happen?)

the idea behind 8v8 isn't necessarily there to reduce numbers as the end result, more to allow tighter matchmaking to segregate the playerbase better to create more balanced matchups.

Edited by NaniCat, 03 June 2018 - 05:43 AM.

[ShiverMeRivets]

Lowering the number of players only increases the chance of a stomp. Remember that 1vs1 always ends in a stomp where one "team" is wiped out and 100% of the other survives. As teams get larger, their composition is more likely to get average. With a smaller team, each player is more influencial, so a disconnect or a single particularly good player in a meta build, can completely throw the game one way or the other. So, large random teams means more even matches.

The other difference that team size makes is how the game looks to the last player of the losing team. 12vs12 is less likely to end in a 1vs1 for victory, then 8vs8 teams. The larger the teams the more likely that the last losing player will be stompped by multiple surviving players of the winning team - however this is not a "stomp" over all if a 12vs12 ends in 3vs1.

TL;DR
To get more even matches go large number so the law of averages kicks in. However this will always feel like a stomp to the last player of the losing team.

[Dragonporn]

Besh, on 02 June 2018 - 03:00 AM, said:

It seems like some people decided SoloQP to be what you describe it to be , and now everyone has to accept that is all there is to it, and thats that ?

In my experience ( I play a lot of SoloQP ), there are many, many peole who really want to play good Matches in SoloQP - and want to win that way . And all of them (us) get brutally frustrated when players simply "goofing around and having fun" ruin the Match for the rest of the Team . As well as getting frustrated by Players simply farming dmg., or padding stats .

I completely understand desire to have good, well coordinated matches, but you (mean everyone) must understand that it is simply unrealistic to expect coordinated play from 12 randos on each side. Yes, it happens from time to time, but considering 2 guys on comms is a big luck by itself, it's unlikely this will bring much of teamplay anyway.

Success in Group or Faction isn't only because there are folks on TS or something, but also that they train together and bring well synergized mechs for the drop. You never know what other guys have in terms of builds in QP, so sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, and that's how it should be. I always say that beauty of QP that we don't have meta ruling it so hard, and even silliest builds can somehow work in this mode, unlike any other, where bringing something off-meta will only cause grief.

That's why most people who even going for solo QP have to get a mindset that it is simply game for fun, not for competition, and less people will be frustrated with it. I always get surprised at people seriously and consistently complaining about how bad players are at QP, what did they expect? What are they doing in this mode then? Go join unit, and drop with them, that's the only way to get real, well coordinated play, and it's pretty much guaranteed. Trying your luck with QP will never pay off. So if anyone thinks he's so good that his goodiness is wasted with "QP potatos", there's nothing that should hold them in this mode. Guys who think they carry so hard, doing it in a unit will be way more useful, and e-peen will definitely grow bigger after this, aye?

Personally I can get decent individual performance, and have fun with whatever team I get, that all that matters. If others can't well, tough luck, but hoping this mode will suddenly become tryhard grounds... very unlikely.