27 replies to this topic

[Brizna]

As per the title, stock mode is a terrible decision, FASA was famous for designing terrible mechs, 80 toners armed with 5 small lasers(*), mechs with AC20 and just 1 ton of ammo, mechs with almost no armor that died at the the first solid hit, mention any ******** decision to design mechs for MWO and some stock mode will have it, sometimes accompanied by several other crippling weakness, only a few mechs are lucky enough to avoid being crippled by one silly design decision or another and that all you will see in this tournament, I've counted 3 lights, 4 mediums, 4 heavies and 3 assaults as workable which after the new balance settles will be further reduced.

I am pretty sure the idea to do this on the tournament comes from Battletech's successfully implementing something similar, what PGI failed to notice is that they didn't implement stock mode but 3025 tech level, this means:

No clans
No Gauss
No ER lasers
No Artemis
No ultra ACs
But most importantly:
No endo steel
No LXL/XL engines
No Double Heat Sinks

This shakes the balance against high heat weapons (mostly lasers and PPCs) and in favour of ACs, SRMs and even LRMs, also because of STD engines and the slower speed it brings to the table it helps LRMs further (though I am sceptic they will be of any use against experienced teams anyway).

But let's face it, no one is going to want to play a JNR D with 20 armor in the CT or an Assasin 21 with a LRM5, SRM2 and 1 ML, let people fix the builds within that tech level and you may actually get a quality tournament shaking up the meta and in the spirit you want to promote MW5.

So either do a regular tournament or implement a tech level filter to make the tournament a 3025 tech championship, but stock mode will be a COMPLETE fail.

[El Bandito]

Brizna, on 06 June 2018 - 02:12 AM, said:

This shakes the balance against high heat weapons (mostly lasers and PPCs) and in favour of ACs, SRMs and even LRMs, also because of STD engines and the slower speed it brings to the table it helps LRMs further (though I am sceptic they will be of any use against experienced teams anyway).

That's completely fine with me, as I am sick of looking at lasers. However, a lot of good players agree that even in stock mode lasers will be dominant. You just can't beat instant damage.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

lock down customization, max out armor to the front.

[Nightbird]

There is no tech level filter, which is unfortunate. When you build your mech, the tech level slneeds to be automatically computed and displayed before this can happen.

[Eisenhorne]

This would be significantly more fun. Stock loadouts and armor distribution are all horribly flawed, this would fix a lot of that. Of course it would require PGI to add stuff to the game, so it will never happen.

[Mechwarrior1441491]

Gauss is most certainly 3025 tech.

[Almond Brown]

OP, you should at least try BattleTech. Many of the things you listed, as missing, are in fact available... But if you had played you would have know that and not posted such things as false...

The Gauss Rifle, for example, is a real beast in BT... LOL!

[Der Geisterbaer]

Mechwarrior1441491, on 06 June 2018 - 07:24 AM, said:

Gauss is most certainly 3025 tech.

Yes and no. The Gauss Rifle represents Star League era technology that was developed way before 3025 (2590 in this particular case) but became pretty much extinct due to the Succession Wars and the following decline in tech know as Lostech. The Gauss Rifle falls into the Tech Level 2 category whereas the Inner Sphere 3025 era was originally depicted Tech Level 1 only due to said Lostech phenomenon.

The current Battltech game by HBS just does what in the original novelization happened when the Grey Death Legion stumbled across the Helm Memory Core in 3028: Within the campaign you also stumble across old SLDF depots, etc. and thus get access to Tech Level 2 equiment from non-Lostech times.

When old school tabletop players speak of 3025 they usually refer to Tech Level 1 only weapons and mechs and the OP is presenting his "idea" along the same lines. Unfortunately already his first example of FASA being famous for badly designed stock mechs falls flat because the 80t Charger was explicitly built with the intend of making it "bad" from an in-fiction perspective. In fact pretty much all mech stock configurations within the Tech Level 1 3025 era were created with the idea of Lostech in mind. At that time the game was all about it's lore and not so much about creating the most meta mech builds.

Edited by Der Geisterbaer, 06 June 2018 - 08:27 AM.

[Antares102]

As I said in the other about stock mode.
For me stock mode for MWOWC is an insult.
Customizable 3025 tech only mechs would have been interesting though.

[Davers]

Der Geisterbaer, on 06 June 2018 - 08:10 AM, said:

Unfortunately already is first example of FASA being famous for badly designed stock mechs falls flat because the 80t Charger was explicitly built with the intend of making it "bad" from an in-fiction perspective.

It's not just FASA, other older wargames did stuff like that. Star Fleet Battles is infamous for this too.

[JediPanther]

Almost sounds like closed beta days. That was fun before ecm,dhs taxes, game breaking fast com op threads etc. We've had newer and newer tech for so long people really don't know how to play stock mechs. It is very challenging compared to the newest mech tricked out with all the upgrades and skill tree.

[Ruccus]

I don't have a huge problem with them going with stock mechs, though I think not tweaking how much ammunition will hurt some ballistic and missile loadouts.

There are many mechs that only have a ton of ammo which isn't really enough in an 8v8 match. The BJ-1 and BJ-1DC each have two AC2s fed by one ton of ammo. The WVR-6R has one ton of ammo for its AC5 and one ton of ammo for its SRM6, then it's down to a single medium laser when it runs out of ammo. The Hunchback HBK-4G has only 2 tons of ammo for the AC20. Both Jagermechs have a serious lack of ammunition for their weaponry. I'm sure there are many others, but those are a few examples.

I have a feeling all we'll see are laser based loadouts except for the stock configurations that actually include enough ammunition.

[dario03]

El Bandito, on 06 June 2018 - 02:28 AM, said:

That's completely fine with me, as I am sick of looking at lasers. However, a lot of good players agree that even in stock mode lasers will be dominant. You just can't beat instant damage.

Last MRBC saw plenty of ballistic and missile usage.

[IIXxXII]

Stock mechs could raise TTK and lengthen matches. This could have potential to make matches more interesting and exciting to spectators.

It could also appeal to classic BT fans who recently purchased hbs "batteltech" game.

It could even the playing field due to literally no one in the competitive genre having experience utilizing stock mechs.

It could change tactics and teams could have to adapt.

There could be an upside here people are missing.

Edited by IIXxXII, 06 June 2018 - 02:35 PM.

[0111101]

IIXxXII, on 06 June 2018 - 02:29 PM, said:

It could even the playing field due to literally no one in the competitive genre having experience utilizing stock mechs.

I guarantee you it won't make a difference. A good player in a bad mech vs a bad player in a bad mech will turn out the same as it does where both are using good mechs.

[IIXxXII]

0111101, on 06 June 2018 - 07:39 PM, said:

I guarantee you it won't make a difference. A good player in a bad mech vs a bad player in a bad mech will turn out the same as it does where both are using good mechs.

I don't know how many good players are proficient with every weapon in the game. Some could rely heavily than others on meta builds and being able to customize loadouts.

Many stock mechs don't seem to boat weapons or have optimized loadouts. They often have mixed builds which are different from meta builds in terms of having weapons which are effective @ different ranges. Its possible that every team will have zero experience using stock mechs, which could mean they all start @ zero.

[Ensaine]

Well, my take on this, is, I welcome the Stock Mode. Last WC was like watching a Pink Floyd concert.... except the action was boring......great light show though....

In this years MRBC, we got to see some nice brawling, lots of Ballistics... for a change.....

Stock mode, to me, means that a pilot will be a LOT more judicial on firing that AC20, if he only has partial LOS... when he has 6 + tons of ammo, he'll take indiscriminate shots for a glancing blow... now that ammo means something.

I say stop bitching, and let it ride. Will probably make for the most fun WC we've seen yet......

Edited by Ensaine, 07 June 2018 - 05:45 AM.

[Alexander of Macedon]

IIXxXII, on 06 June 2018 - 10:55 PM, said:

I don't know how many good players are proficient with every weapon in the game. Some could rely heavily than others on meta builds and being able to customize loadouts.

Many stock mechs don't seem to boat weapons or have optimized loadouts. They often have mixed builds which are different from meta builds in terms of having weapons which are effective @ different ranges. Its possible that every team will have zero experience using stock mechs, which could mean they all start @ zero.

Being good at the game has nothing to do with weapons or equipment. If you can aim, you'll be able to aim with any weapon given a couple shots to get used to its characteristics. If you can't aim...

Metawarriors who aren't actually very good stumble over their own feet all the time. Plenty of MCII-Bs doing sub-250 damage out there in the QP jungle.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

El Bandito, on 06 June 2018 - 02:28 AM, said:

That's completely fine with me, as I am sick of looking at lasers. However, a lot of good players agree that even in stock mode lasers will be dominant. You just can't beat instant damage.

This statement's pretty ironic considering that lasers aren't instant damage.

[Revis Volek]

0111101, on 06 June 2018 - 07:39 PM, said:

I guarantee you it won't make a difference. A good player in a bad mech vs a bad player in a bad mech will turn out the same as it does where both are using good mechs.

PGI cant be told that though because they are so disconnected from the game. IM sure they think they only reason tater tots cant beat EMP is because of the mechlab.




They are lost in the skill forest.