95 replies to this topic

[El Bandito]

S O L A I S, on 06 June 2018 - 10:32 PM, said:

So I can't even imagine if there was a reset what it would look like when Proton, Twinky, or Writhenn are running around making 95% of 'tier 1' look like they just installed as it is....

That's perfect, cause I want to face them. Hence the need for reset. I will get to T1 faster than 95% of the player base, and play my sweet QP matches against the best, for several weeks--just like September 2015. Can't ask for more.

Edited by El Bandito, 06 June 2018 - 10:56 PM.

[0Jiggs0]

Resetting the tiers would have the same result as removing matchmaking completely, and would solve nothing in the long run without changing how PSR works as well. Right now, PSR only accounts for veterancy, meaning a player can have an average Match Score of 150 and be in the same tier as a player who averages 400. PSR should instead be determined by relative-to-team performance trends. If the player tends to out-perform or under-perform their teammates, move them up or down until they find players at their pace and keep them there until their trend changes. This way, players aren't punished for being stomped in a bad match or rewarded for being carried (because they're being compared to their teammates only), and everyone finds players at their speed.

[Savage Wolf]

justcallme A S H, on 06 June 2018 - 10:02 PM, said:

I get accused of "stat padding" all the time. It makes me laugh when I win far more often than I lose. That isn't stat padding, that is over-performing(carrying).

Something many people don't understand, yourself included.

Stat padding is hiding 900m away with LRMs... Given they are ineffective there is a very simple way to fix that in PSR via proper calculations and weighting of in-game actions.

Blizzard have successfully had their match makers working off individual (peer-to-peer ELO) performance for over 20 years.

So... you didn't address my arguments at all. I never accused you of stat-padding, yet you give a perfect example of it happening with LRM'ers in the back. So what was your point?

And yes, Blizzard has exactly used peer to peer ELO for over 20 years and not tried using something futile like PSR. So yet again, exactly what I said.

[aardappelianen]

This just my 2 cents but i think the problem with the tier system is that it cannot represent your skill with each mech you own
In my opinion every mech you own should have its own ranking that represents your skill with that mech

I think it would best if all new mechs started in tier 5 so that you can skill it up an become proficient with it before hitting tier 1
This would keep unskilled/experimental builds out of the higher tiers and improve the quality of those games because right now qp is more like a live combat testing ground where skilled/meta clashes with unskilled/experimental(potato )

[Vellron2005]

justcallme A S H, on 06 June 2018 - 10:02 PM, said:

Stat padding is hiding 900m away with LRMs... .

That's not Stat Padding..

Stat padding is when that Lurmer makes a target nice and soft and cherry red and then the padder kills it with one alpha.

Stat padding is when the padder hides and powers down when the game is conquest or assault and hides so that the other team just wins by objective and his KDR doesn't score a "death"

Stat padding is when the padder plays with a large organized group, with cookie-cutter mechs, and then he does linebacker / assassin pushes, and the group carries him to victory, so his W/L rises.

Stat padding is when the padder waits and times his shots to steal kills.

THAT is stat padding..

Don't spread your LRM hate please..

Edited by Vellron2005, 11 June 2018 - 02:26 AM.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Vellron2005, on 11 June 2018 - 02:24 AM, said:

That's not Stat Padding..

Stat padding is when that Lurmer makes a target nice and soft and cherry red and then the padder kills it with one alpha.

Stat padding is when the padder hides and powers down when the game is conquest or assault and hides so that the other team just wins by objective and his KDR doesn't score a "death"

Stat padding is when the padder plays with a large organized group, with cookie-cutter mechs, and then he does linebacker / assassin pushes, and the group carries him to victory, so his W/L rises.

Stat padding is when the padder waits and times his shots to steal kills.

THAT is stat padding..

Don't spread your LRM hate please..

Right, doing 400 damage to one target without killing it = definitely not stat padding, killing an enemy that's still alive because someone was spreading their damage across literally every component = stat padding.

Hahaha except no they aren't. The only times picking up kills are stat padding are: if you deliberately and repeatedly hold fire while teammates shoot until an enemy is almost dead so that you can ninja the kill; if you hide until the end of the match with a lategame build to try to hoover up all the half-dead enemies.



How about that? My team on that match scattered to ****. I was running an old favorite of mine, just 2x LLas, 4x MLas, 3x JJ, and an XL340. Two thirds of the team was off ******* around after single targets when we reached center, so the four of us scattered. I backstabbed one guy and everything after that was drilling torsos on damaged enemies.

Is that stat padding, to go around making sure things my teammates couldn't kill actually go down instead of blobbing up and rolling all the scattered pockets of our team? According to you, it is.

Meanwhile the teammate who cored out my RT and nearly killed me with damage from three separate alphas in his desperation to kill-secure the enemy Locust he'd been shooting at and barely damaging for three minutes, according to you he's a poor unfortunate contributor who got his kill stolen by someone who had the good luck of being able to aim.

Edited by Alexander of Macedon, 11 June 2018 - 03:55 AM.

[Besh]

Alexander of Macedon, on 11 June 2018 - 03:54 AM, said:

Right, doing 400 damage to one target without killing it = definitely not stat padding, killing an enemy that's still alive because someone was spreading their damage across literally every component = stat padding.

Hahaha except no they aren't. The only times picking up kills are stat padding are: if you deliberately and repeatedly hold fire while teammates shoot until an enemy is almost dead so that you can ninja the kill; if you hide until the end of the match with a lategame build to try to hoover up all the half-dead enemies.



How about that? My team on that match scattered to ****. I was running an old favorite of mine, just 2x LLas, 4x MLas, 3x JJ, and an XL340. Two thirds of the team was off ******* around after single targets when we reached center, so the four of us scattered. I backstabbed one guy and everything after that was drilling torsos on damaged enemies.

Is that stat padding, to go around making sure things my teammates couldn't kill actually go down instead of blobbing up and rolling all the scattered pockets of our team? According to you, it is.

Meanwhile the teammate who cored out my RT and nearly killed me with damage from three separate alphas in his desperation to kill-secure the enemy Locust he'd been shooting at and barely damaging for three minutes, according to you he's a poor unfortunate contributor who got his kill stolen by someone who had the good luck of being able to aim.

I honestly think you misunderstood the poster you are answering to . I fact, at least once you say the exact same thing he does re Statpadding .

Edited by Besh, 11 June 2018 - 04:16 AM.

[Cloves]

Nope, LRMs are largely held to be statpadding. They disagree, and are on two sides of a familiar argument.

Splash damage is padding your matchscore, kill stealing is padding your k/d. Better players have a higher matchscore, positive w/l and a positive k/d. Any less than all three in unison is seen as stat padding.

[MTier Slayed Up]

El Bandito, on 06 June 2018 - 10:55 PM, said:

That's perfect, cause I want to face them. Hence the need for reset. I will get to T1 faster than 95% of the player base, and play my sweet QP matches against the best, for several weeks--just like September 2015. Can't ask for more.

+1 this if you're not a floppy biscuit.

Seriously, where's your guys competitive nature? The most I have to look forward to is if Nova- is on the other team or someone that I know is a damned good pilot, but that's so muddled in Tier 1-3 match making, I'd be lucky to have one or two in the same game.

Give it a hard reset, fix the PSR. Tier 1 should be at best, a representation of the best players on this site currently. Not a mixed bag of "Meh".

[Rusharn]

I would be fine on a one or two tier decrease every six months or so as a cheap patch for a truly functional tier system.

[Humpday]

Problem with Player Skill Ranking is that its an average of everything.

Meaning, you may drop 10 times in your best mech, and be averaging 3-7k/d 350+ damage...all resulting in heavy upward bias, as expected.

But what happens when you wanna...not carry? And you play...say...a single/dual Peep panther? You're not going to be pulling fantastic numbers consistently in that thing...I mean if you're Proton, maybe but regular dude/gal...nah.

Anyway PSR should not be an overall value, but a value based on a per mech and/or class.
And the MM would place you in a queue appropriate to the skill level you are in that chassis or class of mech.

Hey, I'm awsome in a HBK-4P but suck balls in a Kintaro...and are dropping in a Kintaro...welp, to tier 4-5 with your potato self.
Or hey, I'm awesome in assaults but suck in meds...and i'm dropping in a med...again...to tier 4-5 with your potato self.

something like that...

The limiting factor of course is that the calculations performed servers side would lead to latency client side, think match making load times. Not to mention there are infrastructure implications here...such as, how to jam all that information into beast database with multiple memcached servers sitting out front.

So implementing something like that is "expensive" both logically and physically.

[SFC174]

DrtyDshSoap, on 11 June 2018 - 05:47 AM, said:

+1 this if you're not a floppy biscuit.

Seriously, where's your guys competitive nature? The most I have to look forward to is if Nova- is on the other team or someone that I know is a damned good pilot, but that's so muddled in Tier 1-3 match making, I'd be lucky to have one or two in the same game.

Give it a hard reset, fix the PSR. Tier 1 should be at best, a representation of the best players on this site currently. Not a mixed bag of "Meh".

Lol, I got Proton and Nova on the enemy team like 9 times in 2 days. Never on my team. It got boring fast because, well, look at my stats. I'm ok, but I'm not even close to being able to last long enough against those guys to learn much in the process.

Couple days later I got Nova on my team in back to back games. Now if you put them on opposite teams I'd almost want to suicide my mech just to watch the battle......almost.

[Elizander]

Just double the penalty for bad performance in T2 and triple it for T1. I'll be back in T3 in no time.

[Vxheous]

SFC174, on 11 June 2018 - 11:30 AM, said:

Lol, I got Proton and Nova on the enemy team like 9 times in 2 days. Never on my team. It got boring fast because, well, look at my stats. I'm ok, but I'm not even close to being able to last long enough against those guys to learn much in the process.

Couple days later I got Nova on my team in back to back games. Now if you put them on opposite teams I'd almost want to suicide my mech just to watch the battle......almost.

The matchmaker thinks you are equal to Nova- or Proton in those games.

Vellron2005, on 11 June 2018 - 02:24 AM, said:

That's not Stat Padding..

Stat padding is when that Lurmer makes a target nice and soft and cherry red and then the padder kills it with one alpha.

Stat padding is when the padder hides and powers down when the game is conquest or assault and hides so that the other team just wins by objective and his KDR doesn't score a "death"

Stat padding is when the padder plays with a large organized group, with cookie-cutter mechs, and then he does linebacker / assassin pushes, and the group carries him to victory, so his W/L rises.

Stat padding is when the padder waits and times his shots to steal kills.

THAT is stat padding..

Don't spread your LRM hate please..

Are you saying you can't stat-pad (by your definition) with lrms.....cause I'm pretty sure I just met every criteria you mentioned (except for the hiding to perserve K/D) while using lrms

Edited by Vxheous, 11 June 2018 - 11:42 AM.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Besh, on 11 June 2018 - 04:16 AM, said:

I honestly think you misunderstood the poster you are answering to . I fact, at least once you say the exact same thing he does re Statpadding .

He's talking about how sitting back and spamming LRMs at a target until it's cherry-red structure all over isn't statpadding when that's the quintessential definition of statpadding. I'm not arguing that people who wait to ninja kills aren't statpadders, but they're no worse than lurmboaters.

Even MRMs can at least be aimed well enough to only hit 2-3 components at once.

[Racerxintegra2k]

I played Saturday Morning and was doing fantastic 500+ Dmg 3-4 kills, it didn't even matter what mech i took and i take any one of 200 mechs. Later that evening i was getting smacked around like i didn't have dinner ready on time. I don't deserve to be in Tier 1 but it took me only 2 months of really casual play to move to Tier 1 in my alt account.