31 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

Games with a successful comp scene have a few things that MWO does not. One is a comp scene that looks a lot like the semi-competitive ladder gameplay that almost everyone in the game plays. For another all the competitive league play is run by the developer. Also there are scales of comp play; there's world championship stuff, there's leagues, there's events and there's ladders. Many of the events are based around finding fun ways to pit top tier champion players/teams vs regular players.

MWOs comp play doesn't look like regular play. What makes it competitive doesn't make sense and isn't obvious to anyone who isn't really, really into the comp scene or plays comp.

Finally events like MWOWC are not there for the comp players. They're there to drive interest and player engagement in ways that PGI feels will be profitable. The goal is not to create an excuse to give alway tens of thousands of dollars. It's not to make a very small group of players feel special. It's to drive interest and engagement both from existing players and by driving viewership in Twitch and other channels which then drives players to the game.

You absolutely can argue that PGI should have made a Stock Championship and if they didn't feel it was worthwhile then postpone the MWOWC for another year or cancel it all together instead of just making MWOWC a Stock Mech event. They also should have gotten involved in the existing leagues of MRBC and RHOD and both of which should have a **** ton of Mech Bays, MC and unique decals as rewards. That's a minimal investment for PGI and would drive player engagement.

However at the end of the day it's PGIs event and money and they're not doing it because they feel comp players are special and deserve rewards and accolades, they're doing it to drive interest and hopefully some profits. This likely will have more people watching this year than last year. That, for PGI, is a good choice.

[dario03]

MischiefSC, on 12 June 2018 - 06:55 PM, said:

Games with a successful comp scene have a few things that MWO does not. One is a comp scene that looks a lot like the semi-competitive ladder gameplay that almost everyone in the game plays. For another all the competitive league play is run by the developer. Also there are scales of comp play; there's world championship stuff, there's leagues, there's events and there's ladders. Many of the events are based around finding fun ways to pit top tier champion players/teams vs regular players.

MWOs comp play doesn't look like regular play. What makes it competitive doesn't make sense and isn't obvious to anyone who isn't really, really into the comp scene or plays comp.

Finally events like MWOWC are not there for the comp players. They're there to drive interest and player engagement in ways that PGI feels will be profitable. The goal is not to create an excuse to give alway tens of thousands of dollars. It's not to make a very small group of players feel special. It's to drive interest and engagement both from existing players and by driving viewership in Twitch and other channels which then drives players to the game.

You absolutely can argue that PGI should have made a Stock Championship and if they didn't feel it was worthwhile then postpone the MWOWC for another year or cancel it all together instead of just making MWOWC a Stock Mech event. They also should have gotten involved in the existing leagues of MRBC and RHOD and both of which should have a **** ton of Mech Bays, MC and unique decals as rewards. That's a minimal investment for PGI and would drive player engagement.

However at the end of the day it's PGIs event and money and they're not doing it because they feel comp players are special and deserve rewards and accolades, they're doing it to drive interest and hopefully some profits. This likely will have more people watching this year than last year. That, for PGI, is a good choice.

How do stock mechs drive more interest? What about them will make more people watch the matches? It doesn't make MWO comp look more like regular MWO, it makes it less so. We don't even have a stock mode outside of lobbies and even the lobby option hasn't been around that long.
If its just to be different from previous comp then the weight limit change already has that covered.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Additionally, we have the added joy of:

- consumables not working (allegedly being patched)
- weapons groups resetting every match
- override becoming glitchy in stock mode

and other minor, but extremely annoying QoL issues with the mode that will further frustrate people. PGI needs to fix this stuff ASAP or the thing risks being stillborn.

[Pain G0D]

I think it's the best possible answer regarding the balance issue .

The fat head players wanna prove they are best in the world , this is how they prove it. No hiding behind their armless cheese mechs of mass destruction .

They are gonna take longer to die , which means more entertainment value for the spectators . More time for dramatic monologues from commentators.

I also feel stock mech builds are very much like LRM rants. They have a worse reputation than they really are . I have found stock builds on some mechs to be the best possible builds.

Edited by Pain G0D, 13 June 2018 - 04:57 AM.

[Asym]

dario03, on 12 June 2018 - 07:31 PM, said:

How do stock mechs drive more interest? What about them will make more people watch the matches? It doesn't make MWO comp look more like regular MWO, it makes it less so. We don't even have a stock mode outside of lobbies and even the lobby option hasn't been around that long.
If its just to be different from previous comp then the weight limit change already has that covered.

Oh gosh, the point is that the theory of meta is and has run amok.... It's an impossible goal and makes game play alien to normal play and a house can't stand divided: culturally or financially....

I demo'd last years semi finals and QP to a group of highly educated University students whom gather everyday in the players union to play game, discuss the business of "gaming" and work through comp play in various games (LoL, WoW, Overwatch, etc...) The first response as a group what that the Semi-matches were out right boring. They liked the 3 or 4 QP matches a lot more.........so, I asked why. The answer was that there was more diversity of builds and a lot more chaos and energy: it wasn't a business environment but rather, a group of people having a lot of fun ! Ah, fun, chaos and not being predictable.... And, not a single players was interested in trying MWO either. We did have some little success with WoWs and elite Dangerous.... Why?

Appealed to their need for something new? I don't have a clinical answer; although, I know several Doctoral candidates studying it ! I stick to innovation design and what motivates cultures to find new value in areas where adaptive friction chafes at the status quo of brown oceans and markets.....but, hey, what do I know !

[Wil McCullough]

Pain G0D, on 13 June 2018 - 04:56 AM, said:

I think it's the best possible answer regarding the balance issue .

The fat head players wanna prove they are best in the world , this is how they prove it. No hiding behind their armless cheese mechs of mass destruction .

They are gonna take longer to die , which means more entertainment value for the spectators . More time for dramatic monologues from commentators.

I also feel stock mech builds are very much like LRM rants. They have a worse reputation than they really are . I have found stock builds on some mechs to be the best possible builds.

There will always be meta "cheese", stock mode or not.

Also, stock mechs have really bad armor values. When focus fired, stock mechs will disintegrate faster than usual.

[Wil McCullough]

Asym, on 13 June 2018 - 05:25 AM, said:

Oh gosh, the point is that the theory of meta is and has run amok.... It's an impossible goal and makes game play alien to normal play and a house can't stand divided: culturally or financially....

I demo'd last years semi finals and QP to a group of highly educated University students whom gather everyday in the players union to play game, discuss the business of "gaming" and work through comp play in various games (LoL, WoW, Overwatch, etc...) The first response as a group what that the Semi-matches were out right boring. They liked the 3 or 4 QP matches a lot more.........so, I asked why. The answer was that there was more diversity of builds and a lot more chaos and energy: it wasn't a business environment but rather, a group of people having a lot of fun ! Ah, fun, chaos and not being predictable.... And, not a single players was interested in trying MWO either. We did have some little success with WoWs and elite Dangerous.... Why?

Appealed to their need for something new? I don't have a clinical answer; although, I know several Doctoral candidates studying it ! I stick to innovation design and what motivates cultures to find new value in areas where adaptive friction chafes at the status quo of brown oceans and markets.....but, hey, what do I know !

Any competitive game gets "stale" at the highest levels. Mainly because there is always a go-to strategy/tactic. In most other competitive games, balance is however a lot closer, which means that with careful planning and execution, go-to tactics can be countered. Like NaVi's fighting strategy got countered by Alliance's ratting tactics in dota2. Or pyro picks to counter medic/soldier combos in team fortress 2.

Mwo doesn't have close enough balance for that. The last time someone tried something funky on the big stage, he ended up with a 12 damage executioner.

[SilentScreamer]

denAirwalkerrr, on 07 June 2018 - 02:24 PM, said:

Dropping it here hoping to be the biggest source of replies among any other available places. Let’s do this, WC2018 stock yay or nay, no middle ground: http://www.strawpoll.me/15853430/r

To be fair I’m really curious how votes on this one get distributed but don’t have a lot of different places to drop it. So if you can, please do so.

Not interested in a poll at another website. I will say let the prize money pool speak currently at over $40,000. The 2017 prize pool topped out at just over $60,000, so plently of MWO fans are still supporting a Stock Championship.

[Natural Predator]

I don’t even play comp and I think it’s the dumbest idea I’ve ever seen. Who came up with this crap?

[dario03]

Asym, on 13 June 2018 - 05:25 AM, said:

Oh gosh, the point is that the theory of meta is and has run amok.... It's an impossible goal and makes game play alien to normal play and a house can't stand divided: culturally or financially....

I demo'd last years semi finals and QP to a group of highly educated University students whom gather everyday in the players union to play game, discuss the business of "gaming" and work through comp play in various games (LoL, WoW, Overwatch, etc...) The first response as a group what that the Semi-matches were out right boring. They liked the 3 or 4 QP matches a lot more.........so, I asked why. The answer was that there was more diversity of builds and a lot more chaos and energy: it wasn't a business environment but rather, a group of people having a lot of fun ! Ah, fun, chaos and not being predictable.... And, not a single players was interested in trying MWO either. We did have some little success with WoWs and elite Dangerous.... Why?

Appealed to their need for something new? I don't have a clinical answer; although, I know several Doctoral candidates studying it ! I stick to innovation design and what motivates cultures to find new value in areas where adaptive friction chafes at the status quo of brown oceans and markets.....but, hey, what do I know !

Again, weight limit and no duplicate goal would bring more diversity and make things more unpredictable. Stock mode might actually hurt diversity since a lot of those mechs are not balanced either and we are now working with a much smaller pool of choice.
The chaos of QP probably has more to do with the fact that they are unorganized teams doing whatever compared to the more organized teams of comp. Stock mode doesn't change that.

SilentScreamer, on 13 June 2018 - 05:45 AM, said:

Not interested in a poll at another website. I will say let the prize money pool speak currently at over $40,000. The 2017 prize pool topped out at just over $60,000, so plently of MWO fans are still supporting a Stock Championship.

Not a good measurement though since the supporter pack comes with very good rewards for a low price. Plenty of players would buy it no matter what the rules are and even if they don't care about mwowc at all.

Edited by dario03, 13 June 2018 - 06:09 AM.

[MischiefSC]

dario03, on 12 June 2018 - 07:31 PM, said:

How do stock mechs drive more interest? What about them will make more people watch the matches? It doesn't make MWO comp look more like regular MWO, it makes it less so. We don't even have a stock mode outside of lobbies and even the lobby option hasn't been around that long.
If its just to be different from previous comp then the weight limit change already has that covered.

Because most the levers used in comp play with optimized mechs are diluted or completely gone so it will (in theory and In the minds of many players from the Twitter and forum response) look more like what they play.

Nobody actually knows exactly what it'll look like yet.

However that curiosity will probably drive interest.

It also has the potential of drawing people who didn't watch the prior MWOWC.

The point though is that the idea that PGI needs to make the MWOWC appealing and fun for the existing comp teams isn't necessarily true. Not saying this was the best way to do it buy the idea, from a business perspective, isn't terrible.

[Kubernetes]

A garbage move. Yay, let's infect the comp scene with rules that appeal to literally the worst players in the game.

An even bigger laugh is the people in this thread sneering about "try-hards" suffering. Yo, you're talking about the best players in the game, people who know how to pilot and shoot at a very high level. It's not as if their relative skill advantage will go down. If you're a trash pilot now, moving into stock mechs won't make your aim magically better.