Hi guys, I generally dislike XLs cuz they make everything i use feel so vulnerable, so just wondering which IS mechs you think are the most XL friendly?
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#2
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- The Devoted
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Posted 10 July 2018 - 04:42 AM
Other than light mechs, Bushwacker and Dragon are the only two in my line-up still regularly packing XL engines.
#3
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- Rage
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Posted 10 July 2018 - 05:17 AM
Just about anything 40 tons or lower, as they rely on speed and if I lose a torso, I’m dead anyway so I may as well maximize my speed.
Other than that, mechs that are heavier but also rely on speed and either peak/poke or long range play. Example: I have a few Quickdraws that run ERLLs with large engines. The speed and agility are more important than the tankiness. Similarly some of my AC2 Jagger builds still run XL as I need the weight for more guns and ammo. Also, though I don’t really run LRM boats any more, when I did I often ran XL’s because why not? That’s really it though.
As an aside, I recall, before nutech arrived, several threads where many competent and even competitive players put forth on this topic, and many asserted that they would not be trading their XL builds for LFEs as they were unwilling to reduce their firepower for the improved tankiness but slower speed. I suspect that once the reality of engine/agility decoupling set in many of them changed their tune. It would be good to hear from some of those folks. Before and after builds would be interesting too from an academic “see what PGI has made us do” sort of perspective. Of course from that perspective, I suppose, given all weapon nerfs and other changes over the last year the LFE vs XL issue of IS builds is probabaly tangential to such folks and their builds at this point.
Other than that, mechs that are heavier but also rely on speed and either peak/poke or long range play. Example: I have a few Quickdraws that run ERLLs with large engines. The speed and agility are more important than the tankiness. Similarly some of my AC2 Jagger builds still run XL as I need the weight for more guns and ammo. Also, though I don’t really run LRM boats any more, when I did I often ran XL’s because why not? That’s really it though.
As an aside, I recall, before nutech arrived, several threads where many competent and even competitive players put forth on this topic, and many asserted that they would not be trading their XL builds for LFEs as they were unwilling to reduce their firepower for the improved tankiness but slower speed. I suspect that once the reality of engine/agility decoupling set in many of them changed their tune. It would be good to hear from some of those folks. Before and after builds would be interesting too from an academic “see what PGI has made us do” sort of perspective. Of course from that perspective, I suppose, given all weapon nerfs and other changes over the last year the LFE vs XL issue of IS builds is probabaly tangential to such folks and their builds at this point.
#4
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- Star Colonel II
- 1,667 posts
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Posted 10 July 2018 - 05:28 AM
Bud Crue, on 10 July 2018 - 05:17 AM, said:
As an aside, I recall, before nutech arrived, several threads where many competent and even competitive players put forth on this topic, and many asserted that they would not be trading their XL builds for LFEs as they were unwilling to reduce their firepower for the improved tankiness but slower speed. I suspect that once the reality of engine/agility decoupling set in many of them changed their tune. It would be good to hear from some of those folks. Before and after builds would be interesting too from an academic “see what PGI has made us do” sort of perspective. Of course from that perspective, I suppose, given all weapon nerfs and other changes over the last year the LFE vs XL issue of IS builds is probabaly tangential to such folks and their builds at this point.
I was sorta one of these people. I still run XL exclusively on anything 55 tons and lighter, but my heavies are more varied now. It's a convergence of factors, including battlefield role, quirks, engine decoupling, and using light ferro to maximize usable tonnage.
On the other hand, I have maybe 3-4 mechs that still use STD engines, generally dual HGauss or laser boat assaults. Everything else has been upgraded to LFE.
#5
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- Bad Company
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Posted 10 July 2018 - 06:46 AM
One of my favorit builds is an Uziel with an XL 300 engine.
Yeah, its vulnerable.
But that build was never meant to trade punches. XL engines work well in mechs and builds that feature no (or low) face time weapons. Mechs and builds that are fast and mobile (jjs) and that use their speed and agility to flank and can trade well due to the nature of no face time weapons.
Anything that is fast with ok to good harpoints, that is agile and has weapons that allow you to trade well or find positions where you fire at team red but they cant fire back effectively (speed/jjs) can be very effective with XL engines.
If you use long burn lasers for example, in a clunky, broad chested, slow mech, than you better dont use XL engines. Youll pop very easy.
Use XL in mechs that have good/high hardpoints for sniping and at range or when you are very fast and mobile and you can alpha and alpha and alpha while only glimpsing very briefly at your target. Use it in builds that are designed to dish out dmg and make it easy or managable for you to avoid all or as much incoming fire as possible.
If you are slow and big and also use face time weapons that require you to stare at your target, then XL engines are a death sentence.
So it completly depends on your playstyle and what role you wanne fill.
Theres not taht many IS mechs that truely benefit from XL engines. But the Uziel is very effective with XL. Without it its mediocre at best. But with XL, that speed and more room for weapons and DHS.....pretty lethal.
Id have to look at your stats or see how you play. If you take a lot of dmg all the time. If you die rather early or in midgame and rarely survive till the end, then XL engines arent an effective option for you. If you know how to glimpse, peek, how to use speed and terrrain, if youre generally good at trading and navigating your mech and utilizing e.g. your jjms then you can be very effective with XL engines.
The ability to survive a blown out torso is nothing compared to the potential to trade due to the very strong combination of:
Speed, mobility, hardpoints and no or low face time weapons.
BEcause you really dont want to get hit at all. Your plan in those mechs is to avoid taking any dmg.
In my Xl Uziel, due to 260 meters optimal range, im usually somewhere very close to enemy mechs and still, usally im among the last to die. Because that mech, with 104 kph and 5 jjs and relatively high hardpoints allows you to avoid a lot of dangerous trade scenarios where you can just jump-fire, run away, get to high ground, shoot down even steep angels because the Uziel can actually look and shoot up and down (which most mechs struggle with).
Other mechs that are not fantastic but pretty good with XL are e.g. the warhammer. 2 ppcs, 2 uac 5s. You can just alpha and immediately turn away. Go back to hiding. Those builds work with XL. And it also makes you relatively mobile. Shadowhwak used to be a fantastic sniper and I ran it with an XL engine but its insane mobility nerfs completly destroyed that mech. Its too big and too slow and too sluggish now to compensate for an XL engine. Has good hardpoints for sniping (Shadowhawk 2k) but good hardpoints alone are not strong enough to compensate for such heavy agility nerfs.
IS light mechs work well with XL too. Cause they use speeed and terrain and targets of opportunity most of the time. They dont really wanne engage directly.
Yeah, its vulnerable.
But that build was never meant to trade punches. XL engines work well in mechs and builds that feature no (or low) face time weapons. Mechs and builds that are fast and mobile (jjs) and that use their speed and agility to flank and can trade well due to the nature of no face time weapons.
Anything that is fast with ok to good harpoints, that is agile and has weapons that allow you to trade well or find positions where you fire at team red but they cant fire back effectively (speed/jjs) can be very effective with XL engines.
If you use long burn lasers for example, in a clunky, broad chested, slow mech, than you better dont use XL engines. Youll pop very easy.
Use XL in mechs that have good/high hardpoints for sniping and at range or when you are very fast and mobile and you can alpha and alpha and alpha while only glimpsing very briefly at your target. Use it in builds that are designed to dish out dmg and make it easy or managable for you to avoid all or as much incoming fire as possible.
If you are slow and big and also use face time weapons that require you to stare at your target, then XL engines are a death sentence.
So it completly depends on your playstyle and what role you wanne fill.
Theres not taht many IS mechs that truely benefit from XL engines. But the Uziel is very effective with XL. Without it its mediocre at best. But with XL, that speed and more room for weapons and DHS.....pretty lethal.
Id have to look at your stats or see how you play. If you take a lot of dmg all the time. If you die rather early or in midgame and rarely survive till the end, then XL engines arent an effective option for you. If you know how to glimpse, peek, how to use speed and terrrain, if youre generally good at trading and navigating your mech and utilizing e.g. your jjms then you can be very effective with XL engines.
The ability to survive a blown out torso is nothing compared to the potential to trade due to the very strong combination of:
Speed, mobility, hardpoints and no or low face time weapons.
BEcause you really dont want to get hit at all. Your plan in those mechs is to avoid taking any dmg.
In my Xl Uziel, due to 260 meters optimal range, im usually somewhere very close to enemy mechs and still, usally im among the last to die. Because that mech, with 104 kph and 5 jjs and relatively high hardpoints allows you to avoid a lot of dangerous trade scenarios where you can just jump-fire, run away, get to high ground, shoot down even steep angels because the Uziel can actually look and shoot up and down (which most mechs struggle with).
Other mechs that are not fantastic but pretty good with XL are e.g. the warhammer. 2 ppcs, 2 uac 5s. You can just alpha and immediately turn away. Go back to hiding. Those builds work with XL. And it also makes you relatively mobile. Shadowhwak used to be a fantastic sniper and I ran it with an XL engine but its insane mobility nerfs completly destroyed that mech. Its too big and too slow and too sluggish now to compensate for an XL engine. Has good hardpoints for sniping (Shadowhawk 2k) but good hardpoints alone are not strong enough to compensate for such heavy agility nerfs.
IS light mechs work well with XL too. Cause they use speeed and terrain and targets of opportunity most of the time. They dont really wanne engage directly.
#6
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- The Hawk
- 172 posts
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Posted 10 July 2018 - 07:47 AM
My rule of thumb on this is as follows:
If the mech can zombie then no xl unless it is a light mech, and no le unless I can gain a lot of fire power with it. If a mech can't zombie then le unless light mech or I can't dead side.
*zombie means you have center or head weapons of medium or better. This is usually med lasers in CT and head.
*dead side means I can use one whole side of my mech as a shield with torso twisting to eat the damage while I use the other side to put the damage out.
Like all rules there are exceptions. But that is how I look to build. But I also prefer brawling. On a sniper build you could go with xl engines all the time I guess.
If the mech can zombie then no xl unless it is a light mech, and no le unless I can gain a lot of fire power with it. If a mech can't zombie then le unless light mech or I can't dead side.
*zombie means you have center or head weapons of medium or better. This is usually med lasers in CT and head.
*dead side means I can use one whole side of my mech as a shield with torso twisting to eat the damage while I use the other side to put the damage out.
Like all rules there are exceptions. But that is how I look to build. But I also prefer brawling. On a sniper build you could go with xl engines all the time I guess.
#7
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- 3,982 posts
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Posted 10 July 2018 - 08:03 AM
It entirely depends on the mech and its hitboxes for me.
Majority of my builds are now all LFE, except a handful of mediums, and most of my lights run XL.
I only play a few mechs with STD engines still, Hunchbacks, Awesome, Stalker, and 2 Atlas builds and 1 Heavy Gauss build on an Annihilator.
A good majority of players in high tier just leg every mech, which is the first place that most people strip armor or on the cockpit.
I think one of the only Assault mechs still viable with XL is the Banshee energy variant.
Majority of my builds are now all LFE, except a handful of mediums, and most of my lights run XL.
I only play a few mechs with STD engines still, Hunchbacks, Awesome, Stalker, and 2 Atlas builds and 1 Heavy Gauss build on an Annihilator.
A good majority of players in high tier just leg every mech, which is the first place that most people strip armor or on the cockpit.
I think one of the only Assault mechs still viable with XL is the Banshee energy variant.
Edited by The Trojan Titan, 10 July 2018 - 08:04 AM.
#8
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- Legendary Founder
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- LocationLost in my C1
Posted 10 July 2018 - 08:53 AM
While most IS lights need the xl for max speed a few can make use of lfe pretty well. Lcts and spiders with lfes are pretty fun. Going higher the cicadas like the X5, shadow hawks with racs or ac2 x 3, and wolverines do ok with xls. Catapults are very xl friendly when you do not run brawl builds and go for mid to long range builds. Cataracts use either std or lfe. XLs should be avoided in assaults as they take the most focused fire.
#9
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- Marshal
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- LocationNetherlands
Posted 10 July 2018 - 09:01 AM
Most people will say lights and mediums, but you can literately make it work on almost any mech if you're decent with your torso twisting and have a good enough damage output.
Unless your combat role is too tank as much damage as you can you can go standard or fusion.
I always end up being cored in my CT anyway when they blow out my ST so it doesn't matter that much.
Mainly I use Catapults nowadays and they are all XL but I also got a grasshopper that is XL, they work perfectly fine.
Unless your combat role is too tank as much damage as you can you can go standard or fusion.
I always end up being cored in my CT anyway when they blow out my ST so it doesn't matter that much.
Mainly I use Catapults nowadays and they are all XL but I also got a grasshopper that is XL, they work perfectly fine.
#10
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- Ace Of Spades
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Posted 10 July 2018 - 09:36 AM
Flyby215, on 10 July 2018 - 04:42 AM, said:
Other than light mechs, Bushwacker and Dragon are the only two in my line-up still regularly packing XL engines.
>Bushwacker
>XL
Pick one.
#11
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- FP Veteran - Beta 1
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Posted 10 July 2018 - 09:57 AM
Knightswatch, on 10 July 2018 - 04:34 AM, said:
Hi guys, I generally dislike XLs cuz they make everything i use feel so vulnerable, so just wondering which IS mechs you think are the most XL friendly?
As other players have said, there are many mechs that will perform better with an XL than a Standard or LFE.
While Lights Mechs are most numerous, even some of my Heavy mechs sport XLs. The key is can the mech spread damage well enough to survive? Mechs sporting heavy Ballistic weapons that do not need a lot of facetime are good cannidates for XLs in my opinion.
I have a PPC/UAC Warhammer for long range and a double-LBX Cataphract for close fighting that perform well with XLs. They always stick near friendlies and will join a push, but not lead one.
I also have builds with those mechs that use LFEs, a PPC/SRM Warhammer and a single-LBX/5ML Cataphract. These mechs are still in big trouble if they loose a side torso, but they are mechs I am willing to LEAD a push in because I can use a deadside to stay alive.
Edited by SilentScreamer, 10 July 2018 - 10:00 AM.
#13
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- The Devoted
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Posted 10 July 2018 - 11:11 AM
FupDup, on 10 July 2018 - 09:36 AM, said:
>Bushwacker
>XL
Pick one.
>XL
Pick one.
Facing a Bushwacker head on the mech is quite stout and the torsos very narrow; which makes picking off a specific side tricky. Torso twisting fully covers whatever side you need to protect. Armour quirks add some protection to the mech from high pin-point damage to a single side. From personal experience, which I assume the OP is asking, the Bushwacker is very tanky.
Now of course, if you specifically are a sharpshooter and can pick off a Bushwacker's side torso fairly easily, then I imagine you'll sharpshoot any mech running an XL. I'm referring to average matches, Solo Q or casual Group Q, the Bushwacker is XL playable.
#14
Posted 10 July 2018 - 11:40 AM
Depends on the build. I think im skilled enough of a person to use an xl to the best of its ability to make it worth it. I use xls in all of my mediums and lights expect my Hunchbacks.
Use them in my Grasshopers and Cataphracts. Tho will also use lights if I don't want to try so hard. Never use xls in my assult mechs, they are just too slow to be safe doing it. Will use xls in my jagers cause I always have and the speed and firepower is worth the trade off.
FW and Scouting are different than quick play. I will try and use light engines in all of my mechs. Lights do not follow this rule and must use an xl engine.
Use them in my Grasshopers and Cataphracts. Tho will also use lights if I don't want to try so hard. Never use xls in my assult mechs, they are just too slow to be safe doing it. Will use xls in my jagers cause I always have and the speed and firepower is worth the trade off.
FW and Scouting are different than quick play. I will try and use light engines in all of my mechs. Lights do not follow this rule and must use an xl engine.
Edited by BrunoSSace, 10 July 2018 - 11:49 AM.
#15
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- Liquid Metal
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- LocationUpstate NY
Posted 10 July 2018 - 11:45 AM
I frequently use XL engines in my VTR-9S brawlers. The extra speed is worth it. Plus, they are agile and have great side armor quirks, so it's not a huge liability.
#16
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- Urban Commando
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Posted 10 July 2018 - 12:07 PM
Knightswatch, on 10 July 2018 - 04:34 AM, said:
Hi guys, I generally dislike XLs cuz they make everything i use feel so vulnerable, so just wondering which IS mechs you think are the most XL friendly?
Crab, Trebuchet, Enforcer, Urbanmech, Hellspawn, Panther, Wolfhound.
#17
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- Ace Of Spades
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Posted 10 July 2018 - 12:49 PM
I run XLs on my thanatos with the +20 side torso quirks
Add 2 MRM40s and it's a fun mech and a top performer
Add 2 MRM40s and it's a fun mech and a top performer
#18
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- Giant Helper
- 462 posts
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Posted 10 July 2018 - 12:53 PM
Currently, I have an XL engine in these mechs:
FS9-H
LCT-1E
PNT-10P
PNT-9R
UM-R60L
UM-R68
WLF-2
ASN-101
BJ-1DC
BSW-X1
GRF-2N
KTO-18
UZL-6P
VND-1X
BNC-3M
BLR-1G
BLR-2C
FS9-H
LCT-1E
PNT-10P
PNT-9R
UM-R60L
UM-R68
WLF-2
ASN-101
BJ-1DC
BSW-X1
GRF-2N
KTO-18
UZL-6P
VND-1X
BNC-3M
BLR-1G
BLR-2C
#19
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- Elite Founder
- 260 posts
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- LocationSoCal
Posted 10 July 2018 - 12:54 PM
Bushwacker. Crab. And lights.
#20
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- 576 posts
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Posted 10 July 2018 - 01:18 PM
Generally you want to avoid XLs. If you aren't blessed with 150kph like most Lights, a pencil profile like the Wolfhound, or a fish-face hitbox with armor quirks like the Bushwacker, think twice about how useful that XL is compared to an LFE.
Edited by Ilfi, 10 July 2018 - 01:18 PM.
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