20 replies to this topic

[AedanCousland]

In the tutorial it says you need line of sight to get target lock, but I'm having a problem maintaining it in matches. Unbroken line of sight, target has no ECM, but my lock keeps breaking and my lock on missiles take an eternity to work again. Why am I unable to maintain target lock?

[Elizander]

There are things in the skill tree that make it harder for you to lock and there is also equipment that makes it easier.

Beagle Active Probe (I think) and Artemis/Using TAG (when you have LOS) can speed up locks for you. The Sensor skill tree has Target Decay nodes which extend your lock time by 0.7 seconds each. You will usually need to max this out if you are an LRM boat.

The enemy can pick Radar Deprivation to cut locks early. If ever people pick this up it is usually at 60%, but smaller mechs such as Lights might get it at 100%. This means the moment you lose LOS it reduces your lock time by 60%-100%.

Also if you are using locks done by teammates, it's up to them if they maintain it or not. It's good practice to get locks on your own in direct line of sight and always at least get good with backup weapons such as medium lasers in case you really can't lock on for whatever reason.

Just woke up. I'm sure someone will correct me if I got anything wrong X(

Edited by Elizander, 09 June 2018 - 04:08 PM.

[Cloves]

Elizander, on 09 June 2018 - 04:08 PM, said:

There are things in the skill tree that make it harder for you to lock and there is also equipment that makes it easier.

Beagle Active Probe (I think) and Artemis/Using TAG (when you have LOS) can speed up locks for you. The Sensor skill tree has Target Decay nodes which extend your lock time by 0.7 seconds each. You will usually need to max this out if you are an LRM boat.

The enemy can pick Radar Deprivation to cut locks early. If ever people pick this up it is usually at 60%, but smaller mechs such as Lights might get it at 100%. This means the moment you lose LOS it reduces your lock time by 60%-100%.

Also if you are using locks done by teammates, it's up to them if they maintain it or not. It's good practice to get locks on your own in direct line of sight and always at least get good with backup weapons such as medium lasers in case you really can't lock on for whatever reason.

Just woke up. I'm sure someone will correct me if I got anything wrong X(

You got it right, but op said he maintained direct los. All I can think of is if target left sensor range but was still in visual.

[Tarl Cabot]

Or it was another enemy mech w/ECM, simply not the mech he was targeting.

[Cloves]

Tarl Cabot, on 09 June 2018 - 04:49 PM, said:

Or it was another enemy mech w/ECM, simply not the mech he was targeting.

. Yes, ECM mechs protect in a field around them as well, but that would not break a lock, just make it take longer to achieve. Op you need to invest in the sensor tree in your lrm mechs, and you will find LRMs are far more effective in the 3-400 range bracket due to slow flight times.

[Elizander]

Cloves, on 09 June 2018 - 04:34 PM, said:

You got it right, but op said he maintained direct los. All I can think of is if target left sensor range but was still in visual.

Could be ECM from another red as the others said or he was also being jammed by ECM by the enemy. That's what I get when I try to post before fully waking up.

[Cloves]

If the ECM mech got close enough to jam him, he would get notification and loose his minimap I think. At long range, he would not get this notification, but an ECM mech moving adjacent to his target would not break his lock, just make it take much longer to acquire a new one. With no notification the only way I think you can loose a lock on a mech you can directly see is if it moves out of your and every one on your team who can see it and have it locked range. There is a reason I use a fully speced sensor tree and active probe on my most successful lrm boat. The sensor tree will also let you retain locks when you lose LOS, which is far more common in my games. I have never lost a lock on a target that I retained a visual on out to 990 m which is the range at which that mechs missles detonate. You should not be staring at folks out this far anyway, they will shoot you dead with long range lasers, ppc, and gauss, then walk to cover before your missles land. Close the range under cover with your team, if they turtle, you have to as well. Hopefully you can lead a push.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

Ordinary sensor range is 800 meters. With probe it's 1000. With sensor range skill nodes little more. Could it be the target was simply too far for you?

[AedanCousland]

Tarl Cabot, on 09 June 2018 - 04:49 PM, said:

Or it was another enemy mech w/ECM, simply not the mech he was targeting.

Not within protection radius. Here's an example. I was on the HPG Map, I'm standing just inside the tunnel, target ws just outside, about 10 paces away from me. I fire, lose lock, have to reestablish lock, fire, lose lock. There was nothing obstructing the view. I want to be clear for those who didn't read. There was no ECM close to either of us. I'm simply trying to understand why this happens so I can learn from my mistakes.

[Koniving]

AedanCousland, on 09 June 2018 - 03:43 PM, said:

In the tutorial it says you need line of sight to get target lock, but I'm having a problem maintaining it in matches. Unbroken line of sight, target has no ECM, but my lock keeps breaking and my lock on missiles take an eternity to work again. Why am I unable to maintain target lock?

Questions.. Are you STILL in the tutorial? If yes, is the target moving or stationary? If moving, are you keeping your crosshair on the target as it moves? If no... there's your problem.

If you're in an actual game... then repeat the questions: is the target moving or stationary? If moving, are you keeping your crosshair on the target as it moves? If no... there's your problem.

If the answer to the last question is "Yes," then there's another factor that we do not know about.
If you see "Low signal" on your minimap, you won't be able to lock anyone at all, because you can't send signals to your missiles and your own locks are being jammed by an ECM pest standing behind you.

Edited by Koniving, 10 June 2018 - 04:29 AM.

[Koniving]

AedanCousland, on 10 June 2018 - 04:15 AM, said:

Not within protection radius. Here's an example. I was on the HPG Map, I'm standing just inside the tunnel, target ws just outside, about 10 paces away from me. I fire, lose lock, have to reestablish lock, fire, lose lock. There was nothing obstructing the view. I want to be clear for those who didn't read. There was no ECM close to either of us. I'm simply trying to understand why this happens so I can learn from my mistakes.

In real life this pretty much how a missile launcher should work, but in MWO this isn't how it should work. Are. You. Keeping. Track. Of. The. Target?

A video example.
Many of the early locks are instantly lost due to line of sight issues, as you'll be able to see missiles will go to where they were last locked if locked or if the lock was lost before it left the tube, they turn stupid.

However, if a lock is maintained by AIMING at the enemy until the missile connect, the lock will NOT be lost and the target will be hit.

The above example shows bad and good results... considering I have LRM-75 and my teammate has LRM-100...and a ridiculous amount of missiles... we didn't care.

Now this is a more skillful and recent demonstration. This one only shows good practices. shows mostly good practices. (At one point an itchy trigger finger fired LRMs despite a building very clearly being in the way....)

Edited by Koniving, 10 June 2018 - 04:41 AM.

[Cloves]

at these distances sounds like streaks and stealth armor maybe?

-edit with this event I have seen a ton of stealth locus and cicada on the battlefield. A similar question was brought up as a bug. Their target lock would be lost and you would lose the red box frame entirely. They may not leave it on all the time because they cannot lose heat while it is engaged.

Edited by Cloves, 10 June 2018 - 05:34 AM.

[AedanCousland]

Koniving, on 10 June 2018 - 04:28 AM, said:

Questions.. Are you STILL in the tutorial? If yes, is the target moving or stationary? If moving, are you keeping your crosshair on the target as it moves? If no... there's your problem.

If you're in an actual game... then repeat the questions: is the target moving or stationary? If moving, are you keeping your crosshair on the target as it moves? If no... there's your problem.

If the answer to the last question is "Yes," then there's another factor that we do not know about.
If you see "Low signal" on your minimap, you won't be able to lock anyone at all, because you can't send signals to your missiles and your own locks are being jammed by an ECM pest standing behind you.

In the game I mentioned above the target was stationary. It was in Quick play. I repeat, and please for the love of god, believe me when I say there was no ECM near me. I'm inexperienced, not stupid.. It just happened again but this time I was much closer to the target and he'd shut down. I think what it was is the guy was having overheating issues which is probably what was happening in the other matches. Since I don't have a BAP I lose target lock when it happens.

[Cloves]

AedanCousland, on 10 June 2018 - 06:03 AM, said:

In the game I mentioned above the target was stationary. It was in Quick play. I repeat, and please for the love of god, believe me when I say there was no ECM near me. I'm inexperienced, not stupid.. It just happened again but this time I was much closer to the target and he'd shut down. I think what it was is the guy was having overheating issues which is probably what was happening in the other matches. Since I don't have a BAP I lose target lock when it happens.

Well, there you go. You lose locks when someone shuts down. Your first post did not mention shutdowns, and they should not be that frequent. Get a BAP if you are going to boat streaks, it will come in handy.

[AedanCousland]

Cloves, on 10 June 2018 - 06:12 AM, said:

Well, there you go. You lose locks when someone shuts down. Your first post did not mention shutdowns, and they should not be that frequent. Get a BAP if you are going to boat streaks, it will come in handy.

My post didn't mention because if you read my post I didn't' know.

[Koniving]

Understood.

Please forgive us that we couldn't deduce it quickly enough and went for the more common issues often encountered. You'll see why in a moment.

Yes, their engine has to be running to get a lock on the target. Most people that don't manage to keep locks kind of think that this game works like any other, where once you get the lock and you fire that's it, the job's done and the missiles will make their way to try and hit the enemy. So we sort of expect issues like that to come up after 5 years of problem solving things that new players encounter.

Admittedly, not many people realize that they can fool missiles by shutting down and virtually no one really stacks skill points into faster startup/shutdowns so the tactic's almost unheard of 5 years after its conception. Although overheating is somewhat common especially early into the game (much less later on), so we kinda don't expect to see issues where the enemy shuts down due to overheating (most tend to throw on the override and either fight til they blow up or get that last shot in and escape as opposed to being trapped into sitting still).

Even I don't do it all that often, though I did it once in 2017 (on video no less [time skipped to right before I do it]) because it was too early to be taking damage from missiles. But again this tells you how rarely it happens as we progress into the game so it really wasn't among the things that any of us would have really considered as the cause.

[Cloves]

The problem with that tactic is missiles that are underway when they lose lock will still hit you (since you will still be standing where they last had lock), and being shut down in front an enemy is largely a death sentence, caused by heat mismanagement, often due to panic. I still shutdown due to overheat myself when pressed by the enemy, or I hit override early and that situation still leads to be blowing myself up. I tend to not use override if I am still in the pack, letting the shutdown save me from myself, but if I am the target of a aggressive push, I would rather override and try and be careful.

[Koniving]

Cloves, on 10 June 2018 - 10:21 AM, said:

The problem with that tactic is missiles that are underway when they lose lock will still hit you (since you will still be standing where they last had lock), and being shut down in front an enemy is largely a death sentence, caused by heat mismanagement, often due to panic. I still shutdown due to overheat myself when pressed by the enemy, or I hit override early and that situation still leads to be blowing myself up. I tend to not use override if I am still in the pack, letting the shutdown save me from myself, but if I am the target of a aggressive push, I would rather override and try and be careful.

Indeed. Behind a building works better. Its achieveable in the open, if, say, there's 800+ meters and you have invested in the faster startup (which also results in a faster shutdown if you intentionally press it). However the window is small and your acceleration needs to be high, basically you're not doing this unless you're 50 tons or less with good acceleration.

Though I used to do this with assault mechs... but back then missiles were slower.

That is, matter of fact, how this shot was achieved during a match. I had shut down, booted up and then just stepped out of the way. Keep in mind, Pretty Baby had pretty high acceleration and terrible brakes at the time.

Yeah these days maybe if you're beyond 800 meters. Again I did say this technique is pretty rare these days. After all why do that when someone can just flick on ECM? But far enough back, we didn't have ECM...

[Koniving]

Definitely do whatever you can to avoid "accidentally" shutting down, even if you did max out the operations skill tree for the startup/shutdown benefits, it doesn't affect shutdown due to overheat.

And if you do deliberately shutdown, put an obstacle in between before doing it. This works against the skill tree that maintains locks for some seconds after losing sight of the target, too.

[Alexander of Macedon]

There's a difference between target lock and missile lock. Target lock is just pressing R. Missile lock is the rotating circle around a target-locked 'mech. If you move your crosshair off of a target you will quickly lose missile lock.