34 replies to this topic

[Novakaine]

Yes I would love to drop with my favorite narc buddy

[Prototelis]

Hop on comstar and group with our crew of regulars.

We've been entertaining new players for the last few weeks and it has been a blast.

We also don't mind taking people into private lobbies to work on tactics, gunnery, building etc.

[Jon Gotham]

Vellron2005, on 11 June 2018 - 12:30 AM, said:

So guys, tell me this..

How many times you just wanna drop a few quick games with your friend or your significant other, you crate a group of two, and hit the launch button, and end up in a match with many other similarly sized and entirely uncoordinated groups on your side, and a big 8+ premade on the enemy team, resulting in a less then 5 minute 0:12 stomp?

I know it's called "group que", but I believe it's not fair for groups of 2, or perhapse 3 to be matched against large premades? It is almost always a one-sided stomp for the premade, and after 2-3 drops like that, I just wanna break my keyboard and rage quit..

SO..

What I propose is this:

Have groups of 2 drop into the SOLO Que.. not into GROUP que..

That way, it would be alot more fun to play with uncoordinated team against an uncoordinated team.. no unfair skill advantage, no Linbacker/Assassin rushes, no frustration when you have 30 minutes or an hour of play time and you just want to spend it with somebody important to you with out too much hassle.

And teams of 2 don't have enough sway to pull the game this way or that.. and even if they go off and do their own thing, it's only two people.. not 4.. not 6..

Would you be up for this?

People that refused to teamwork cried a lot in the past that teamwork in a teamwork game is unfair. Why should they be penalized for refusing to teamwork? that's why your 2 man gets chewed up.

[Chados]

Just NO.

[a le Roi]

Yes, yes, yes please!

[jss78]

There are precedents of other games allowing groups of 2 or 3 in otherwise random teams of 12.

In short, it's at least a slight balance issue. I play World of Warships a ton in 2 and 3-man divisions. We're fairly good players with ~57% solo win rates. In 2-man divisions we go up to 59%, as a 3-man to 65%.

The slight balance issues must be balanced against giving small groups a nice place to play -- IMO an undeniable weakness of MWO.

Personally I'd favour trying two-man groups in randoms, but with the restriction that the enemy team must have one too, as suggested by El Bandito above. The two-man waits however long the MM needs.

Just speaking for myself, a major reason why I rarely play this game is that MWO's competition makes it nicer to play in small groups.

Edited by jss78, 14 June 2018 - 09:00 AM.

[a le Roi]

Jon Gotham, on 11 June 2018 - 11:40 AM, said:

People that refused to teamwork cried a lot in the past that teamwork in a teamwork game is unfair. Why should they be penalized for refusing to teamwork? that's why your 2 man gets chewed up.

What you said is also an argument for allowing 2-man teams in mixed games with solo players. After all, if the other team gets stomped, that's just because they "refused teamwork".

But seriously though, why should the other team get stomped? Of course the MM should place a 2-man group in *both* teams if it does so to one. The effect on balance should average to 0 over the long run.

[a le Roi]

Kroete, on 11 June 2018 - 09:13 AM, said:

Do you know the history of qp/groupplay in mwo?

And as you claimed in a lot of (lrms)posts (about you and your girl), the impaced of two can be great,
this counts even more in qp.
Think about 6 2mans against 12 pugs and me tell how this will end.

Its a bad idea.

Why on Earth would be six 2-man teams vs. 12 randoms? Why would the match maker ever be that broken? (And if it were, there problem would not be the groups but the MM.)

That's a straw-man argument and you know it.

[Dragonporn]

a le Roi, on 14 June 2018 - 09:15 AM, said:

Why on Earth would be six 2-man teams vs. 12 randoms? Why would the match maker ever be that broken? (And if it were, there problem would not be the groups but the MM.)

That's a straw-man argument and you know it.

It's not a strawman argument. MM currently doesn't work AT ALL, if PGI decides to turn it off completely, you won't see any difference in match making, so syncdrops of 6 2s vs. 12 randos wouldn't be something rare to see.

[Haipyng]

Dragonporn, on 14 June 2018 - 09:48 AM, said:

It's not a strawman argument. MM currently doesn't work AT ALL, if PGI decides to turn it off completely, you won't see any difference in match making, so syncdrops of 6 2s vs. 12 randos wouldn't be something rare to see.

QP Queue MM works better today than the old ELO MM did before and even earlier it used to allow a single small group into QP on each team. (and I am not saying its perfect) I think we are looking at 2-3 people groups tops, not stacking teams.

[Vellron2005]

Prototelis, on 11 June 2018 - 10:57 AM, said:

Hop on comstar and group with our crew of regulars.

We've been entertaining new players for the last few weeks and it has been a blast.

We also don't mind taking people into private lobbies to work on tactics, gunnery, building etc.

You do know you're inviting known Lurmers right?

What group is that exactly?

Jon Gotham, on 11 June 2018 - 11:40 AM, said:

People that refused to teamwork cried a lot in the past that teamwork in a teamwork game is unfair. Why should they be penalized for refusing to teamwork? that's why your 2 man gets chewed up.

Two mans get chewed up when you get pro teams who play with eachother exclusively and use cookie-cutter meta mechs on the enemy team.. Sure, those who refuse teamwork should not be penalized, but in the grand scheme of things, this game is not about teamwork - it's about fun..

And it's not much fun when you just wanna play some casual fun drops and get matched game after game against pros on training drops..

Also, it's not a very good way of bringing and keeping new people into the game..

Imagine you NEVER played anything BT or MW related, and somebody tells you, oh there's thins cool game we can play together, and you wanna play it, but end up feeling like a toddler playing pro NHL.. you feel like you're getting your teeth kicked in..

[Kroete]

a le Roi, on 14 June 2018 - 09:15 AM, said:

Why on Earth would be six 2-man teams vs. 12 randoms? Why would the match maker ever be that broken? (And if it were, there problem would not be the groups but the MM.)

That's a straw-man argument and you know it.

When was the matchmaker not broken?

Do you know the history of qp/groupplay?
There is a reason why we dont even have a single twoman in qp.

There was a time where groups stomped pugs,
they called it "wanting a challenge",
then they got groupplay, but they still wanted "the real challenge",
now groups for qp was reduced to 4 man groups,
these people split up their groups to 4 mans, you know they wanted challenges,
groupqueue was still empty, after that groups were banned from qp,
groupqueue is still mostly nearly empty,
but you still see sometimes some of them doing syncdrops for "the real challenge" in qp.

And thats why groups in qp are bad,
here are to many people that want "real challenges".

Edited by Kroete, 15 June 2018 - 02:09 AM.

[Dragonporn]

The reality of this situation is compromise between fun for several groups of people. It is obvious that solo QP is most popular and why. Two man groups are screwed either way, especially casuals, because they aren't allowed in QP, and in most GP drops they will be mercilessly stomped, that's given. But there's no way to improve fun factor of small groups without ruining the fun for either solo players or big groups currently.

I see only two ways to tackle this issue:
1. On player side, there are several units recruiting, joining one and dropping with them and your friend together both in FP or GP may be fun and may definitely cut down on wait times.
2. Making GP 8v8. Since most people who advocate 8v8 have competitive mindset and arguments, it may actually benefit GP queue more, since smaller team = shorter wait times (as it is ghost town from what I know), and you can carry easier in 8v8, so a win-win?

Haipyng, on 14 June 2018 - 10:10 AM, said:

QP Queue MM works better today than the old ELO MM did before and even earlier it used to allow a single small group into QP on each team. (and I am not saying its perfect) I think we are looking at 2-3 people groups tops, not stacking teams.

Actually I see pairs syncdropping from time to time in QP, if you want me, I can start making screenies and posting. Yeah, MM generally does restrict big syncdrops of whole units and can even manage matching weight, but I'm not sure it is the main purpose of MM, which should be more or less fair player distribution IMO, which isn't a case, since tiers are wide open and complete greenhorns are set against vets, among some other oddities which aren't suppose to happen...

Edited by Dragonporn, 15 June 2018 - 07:02 AM.

[Vesper11]

I don't even understand why 12man groups and sync dropping is in the game, former shouldn't be allowed and latter should be hunted and banned. It is NOT competitive to pubstomp, it's a ****** game design that pushes people away from playing with their friends which is one of major reasons why people play some (coop) games that would be completely ignored otherwise. Crappy MM being glorified exp bar doesn't help either.

[ZippySpeedMonkey]

You can...

It’s called Solaris...