12 replies to this topic

[RickySpanish]

(Preface: I know laser vomit GH5 is optimal, but I prefer pop tarting)

I'm looking to boost my pop tarting game with the Grasshopper GH5 and a pair of Heavy PPCs. First, here's my build: GHR-5H.

Ignore the armour allocation, it's wonky. I actually drop 10 points on the legs, a couple on the head and push most points forward on the torsos leaving 15 on the back sections.

I handled the skill trees by focussing on every heat reduction trait I could get, so I'm fairly far into operations and have every node in weapons unlocked that isn't related to ballistics or cooldown reduction. I also have points in the jump jet tree, which I'm beginning to wonder the use of. That rounds out my point allocation, an important choice here is my disregard for mobility and survival, a side effect of the sheer point volume I feel was required to make the build work. More on this later, I may well be wrong about this.

Here are some numbers since I began piloting the 'Mech:

H-PPC accuracy: 66%
Average damage per PPC hit: 12.54
KDR: 2
W/L: 1.8

I had a spate of bad games today that brought those numbers down from 3.x kdr & w/l, but it's literally early days. However this got me thinking about how I could improve my game, hence the post. So, some questions:

1. Do I really need the JJ tree? I'm confident that survival isn't required, when I die the game has usually gone to pot already so any mistakes I made have already affected the outcome. However, my accuracy isn't good, hitting with 2/3 of my shots is a huge chunk of missing damage, so perhaps mobility might be a good investment?

2. In relation to hit rate, would a targetting computer help? In this case I might well need to get a smaller engine requiring an investment into mobility to possibly recover lost speed. This would also increase my agility as a side effect.

3. Maybe I don't even need jets. Thinking about it, they'e hot, add 4 tons of weight and at the very least practically guarantee enemy missile lock.

4. This one's a bit tricky - I feel like positioning is absolutely crucial with this build, my average damage per PPC hit suggests that I could be a bit closer, as I'm missing 3 damage per hit. I'm also only averaging 400 pts of damage a match, this is really bad. How do you guys position yourselves through the course of a match? Are you aggressive with pop tarting? Do you find your targets by jetting right up and risking attack from somewhere unknown? Or do you perhaps use it more to secure a counter attack or a follow up attack? For example, if you wack an advancing enemy and then follow up with your jets to remove the cover they've ducked behind?

Lots of questions then, any sort of input is welcome!

So yeah, what do you guys think? What's the right balance of mobility and offensive power?

Edited by RickySpanish, 11 June 2018 - 05:45 PM.

[Zack Esseth]

Jump sniping Is still heavily held back by the nerfs it got years ago to save the game. While the recent improvement to jump jets make it workable on heavies again, the nerf to ppc gause prevents it from being a contender as you can't do it in a damage to heat effective way like it once was. And 20 points of damage is just not going to deter people like it once did. So heavy mech poptarting is probably not the way to go. If I pop these days, I do it on a cicada or nova. Small and maneuverable and work the ends of the fireing line. I skill out operation, jump jets, mobility and sensors.

[Elizander]

Downgrading to a 280 will let you maintain the DHS count and add Tarcom2. You can get Tarcom3 with some extra armor shaving. This will affect how fast you can reposition your mech though.

You can test by pop tarting in training grounds to simulate a match in Tourmaline for your JJ height and heat.

If you feel HPPCs are too slow, velocity nodes in Firepower and a Tarcom can help speed it up. I certainly do not enjoy the base 1200 projectile speed for longer range shots which is why I use IS ER PPCs instead which go at 1900.

Jump Jets go with some Radar Derp to break the lock when you fall back down. Ideally you'd want to jump sideways from cover so you are 'moving' even while pop tarting.

Your DPS is limited by heat and PGI took out bonus damage from side torso kills. You can top damage in a very long fight where you are active from start to finish, but each time you reposition/forced under cover or can't find the enemy and your heat bar is not being used, then you are losing damage for your end score. I think as long as you are not wasting shots on non-vital components then 400 is more than enough due to lack of spread.

[GweNTLeR]

First of all - what is a point of using a mix of Ml &ER ML? It is worth choosing either ER, if you often engage outside of 360m or just medium otherwise.
14 DHS is just NOT ENOUGH. Shave more armor from head(it is REALLY HARD to hit GHP head) and hands to add 2 more DHS.
Regarding your questions:
1) JJ tree is not necessary. However, IMO heat shielding nodes are quite useful, so I try to pick the initial one when I have an unallocated node. The other nodes on a JJ skill tree are mostly useless, even for poptarts (the bonuses are just too small).
2) A computer could help, but dont expect miracles. For PPCs to really benifit from it you have to use at least class 3-4. But even with it, it is unlikely your hit rate will go above 71%. If it would - it will be because you improved, not because of TC.
3) Personally, I think that poptarting on IS heavys is dead. JJ are still useful for defensive maneuvering thought. But that is only my opinion.
4) I use HPPCs on many mechs (BNS-3S, GHP-5N, 5J, ZEU-9S, RFL-5D), but neither of them has JJ. Why? Because I use HPPC as weapon to bring my alpha strike closer to clan tech. Even without JJ, I deal only 75% of damage compared to my other similar weight mechs. With JJ I would expect numbers to be even smaller. So while positioning is crucial, I dont expect it to solve your low damage problem.
If you wonder numbers - my accuracy with HPPS is 66.7%, average damage is 13.9.

Edited by GweNTLeR, 11 June 2018 - 09:32 PM.

[RickySpanish]

Some great points, thanks. Seems like I need moar heat sinks and a redistribution of points away from the jump jet tree and possibly weapons into mobility and/or operations. I'll have a play around, I'm aware that pop tarting got wrecked hard by multiple nerfs - the archived stats for my Highlander suggest that the nerfs weren't entirely unjustified. I'll always love jump jet sniping though, I just need to weave that into more regular game play somehow.

The ER mediums on the arms are there so that I have a teensy bit more of a range advantage when jumping if I choose to shoot with my arms instead of or as well as my PPCs. The torso mounted lasers are plain mediums as they only get used right up close.

[Heavenly Angel]

Poptarting grasshoppers are my fav! I think it can work but it's super niche and only really shines on certain parts of certain maps. For instance you can really wreck teams that try to hold the center on hpg manifold. It can be a tricky mech to carry with outside of situations like that though because of what a ridiculously tall and juicy target it is for the level of durability it has.

The big game changer for me was biting the bullet and throwing in the biggest xl possible. Being able to quickly reposition to find new angles of attack or keep yourself safe makes it way easier to succeed in. The lack of side torso quirks really sucks but your damage is kind of pathetic when it gets halved anyway so I don't think it's that bad to focus on getting more work done up front instead.

[justcallme A S H]

You issue is quite simply a bad build. Mixing too many ranges, too many JJs, not enough DHS.

BUILD - Swap 1 ML for a JJ if you are struggling, but 2 JJ is fine.
SKILL MAZE (No consumable)
SKILL MAZE (Consumables)

1. No.
2. No. Do basic maths on the velocity. 1200m/s, you get nigh all gain from a TC1... You'd really need a TC4 to 'feel' benefits, so dont bother.
3. You only need 2 JJ
4. Shoot and move. Never full burn JJ (especially 4 JJs) just to "find" a target, that is asking to be shot and get wrecked. And never JJ into 4-5 targets you know are looking at you, same deal. Also always be @ 500m at least, why get close? No need.

I actually played the GHP-5H earlier in the week while streaming because of one particular individual in the New Player section rubbishing on about how the mech had bad DPS blah blah blah. The usual suspect who has absolutely no idea about the game and continually gives out the worse advice I've ever seen...

The Result?
I didn't have a game under 650dmg from memory over 5-6 games... Hell it might have been 700dmg+, it was around my usual. If I get on tonight and stream, I'll play a few games at the start so I can link it easily.

It isn't the 'easiest' mech to get damage out of... A SMN for example is better in every way...

Edited by justcallme A S H, 14 June 2018 - 06:47 PM.

[Dungeon 206]

^

listen to ASH

[justcallme A S H]

Ok Ricky. I did some matches for you.

First 40mins... 3 games of HPPC. Search times are a bit high tonight. Skip as you see fit. I go over the build / skill tree etc etc.

1st game - ~700dmg
2nd game - ~400dmg (I explain why in the video)
3rd game - ~550dmg

It will only be there for a week or so but take a look dude. It isn't my "best" play or commentary but just something I chucked together on stream quickly for you. GHP-5H / HPPC is SOLID.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/273483414

Hope it helps.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 15 June 2018 - 02:07 AM.

[RickySpanish]

justcallme A S H, on 15 June 2018 - 01:45 AM, said:

Ok Ricky. I did some matches for you.

First 40mins... 3 games of HPPC. Search times are a bit high tonight. Skip as you see fit. I go over the build / skill tree etc etc.

1st game - ~700dmg
2nd game - ~400dmg (I explain why in the video)
3rd game - ~550dmg

It will only be there for a week or so but take a look dude. It isn't my "best" play or commentary but just something I chucked together on stream quickly for you. GHP-5H / HPPC is SOLID.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/273483414

Hope it helps.

Oh brilliant, thanks a lot I shall check those out shortly. I saw someone in a 5H pull 800 damage earlier today which further cemented the idea that I just need practice. I looked at the TCs again and realised how idiotic an idea that was, for some reason I had assumed they gave a better buff but obviously not. Cheers!

Edited by RickySpanish, 16 June 2018 - 01:56 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

The Video will only stay up for a week or so, but you'll get the idea.

[RickySpanish]

I've played a fair number of matches now with many different configurations, and it looks like the one thing I was missing was the XL. After popping that bad boy in my damage has jumped a few hundred points and consequently, I contribute more to fights justifying the 'Mechs evasive nature. Everything works better with the XL - more heat sinks mean more fire power, a higher speed means I can get into a good firing position quickly, and in a pinch you can get to that 90m minimum firing range a lot easier. I also tried a 3 large pulse laser build backed up by medium lasers; it was a good alternative and more effective for times when the light / medium population is higher. Thanks for all the help everyone, this is a fun 'Mech to fly.

Edited by RickySpanish, 21 June 2018 - 06:49 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

LPL is dead man. Has been for a long time... The tonnage doesn't justify the damage after the nerf a way back and the fact you need to also run IS XL.

Run the build like this if you wanna go laser: 3LL / 4ERML / SKILL MAZE

Don't worry about the legs/arms being low. Once you Skill Maze properly you will still have 64pt on the legs which is more than it is stock (no quirks/tree).

Edited by justcallme A S H, 21 June 2018 - 06:57 PM.