50 replies to this topic

[Toothless]

At 5'4" and a lean ultrarunner, cyclist, and avid weight lifter for over a decade now, I am usually ~150 lbs. My friend who is 5'2" and an amateur powerlifter is a shredded 220lbs except for his barrel chest. From the front his volume is shown in the chest and quads the most, but from the side he has like twice as much depth on the z axis as I do. Just because you're taller you dont have to be heavier (and Im super short).

[Seranov]

Bud Crue, on 16 June 2018 - 05:46 AM, said:

The terrible consequences that the 35 ton mechs suffered as a result of rescale used to really bother me.

But here is the deal: Its 2 years now since rescale and the volumetric death of the 35 ton mech. Time to move on.

If you are a new player and bought one with out doing a reasonable amount of background into this game, then I am sorry, but there are scores of threads both here and reddit that have pointed out the scaling problem and you could have easily found out about this at any time with a quick google search.

If you are not new, well then you need to accept that after two years of PGI not caring to address this problem, that it is time to let go, and play a different weight class of mech (Seriously, get an Urby and save 5 tons), if this really bugs you. Sorry, but that is just the way it is.

It would be a problem if the Wolfhound wasn't a great mech. It IS a great mech, and therefore it doesn't matter how tall the dang thing is at the moment. There certainly are mechs that absolutely got hosed by the rescale, but the Wolfhound is strong regardless, to the point where I would say it was not one of them.

[Xetelian]

Seranov, on 16 June 2018 - 04:06 PM, said:

It would be a problem if the Wolfhound wasn't a great mech. It IS a great mech, and therefore it doesn't matter how tall the dang thing is at the moment. There certainly are mechs that absolutely got hosed by the rescale, but the Wolfhound is strong regardless, to the point where I would say it was not one of them.

WLF has armor quirks out the ***, that is why it is such a great mech, if it didn't have that major armor buff it would be just a different flavor of medium laser / medium pulse laser light that is rivaled by the JAV and Osiris.

This is hardly the only light that is ridiculously tall.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Xetelian, on 16 June 2018 - 05:10 PM, said:

WLF has armor quirks out the ***, that is why it is such a great mech, if it didn't have that major armor buff it would be just a different flavor of medium laser / medium pulse laser light that is rivaled by the JAV and Osiris.

This is hardly the only light that is ridiculously tall.

Even without any armor quirks the Wolfhound would be more durable than the Javelin or Osiris due to hitboxes being superior, not to mention being 5 tons heavier so it has more armor anyway.

Honestly, you should be HOPING that your light is ridiculously tall, that's the best option since it means your hitboxes are extremely hard to isolate since the mech would be very skinny. The little fat wide mechs such as the Jenner are the ones that are considered nonviable. Jenner is shorter than the Wolfhound but just has huge, easy to isolate, hitboxes.

[Y E O N N E]

Wolfhound hitboxes are nothing special.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Yeonne Greene, on 16 June 2018 - 05:21 PM, said:

Wolfhound hitboxes are nothing special.

Way better than most of the competition though.

[Nightbird]

Mechs are scaled by volume within the tonnage. All 35 tonners have the same volume, all 65 tonners, etc.. Mechs are not scaled by volume between weights. A 40 tonner does not have 2x the volume of a 20 tonners. -PGI

Edited by Nightbird, 16 June 2018 - 05:27 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 16 June 2018 - 05:26 PM, said:

Way better than most of the competition though.

Not really. About the same as the Firestarter.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Yeonne Greene, on 16 June 2018 - 05:27 PM, said:

Not really. About the same as the Firestarter.

Its way better than the Firestarter though. Firestarter is just a big brick, Wolfhound has a hexagon up at the top then a little stick waist, a whole lot less frontal area.

[Akillius]

Seranov, on 16 June 2018 - 03:37 AM, said:

Height is mostly irrelevant for any mech that isn't a Annihilator, Executioner or Grasshopper. As long as you can easily hide behind most cover, the actual height of your mech just doesn't matter

Hmm funny you wrote that because for cover I prefer staying close behind my greatest invention called "self-propelled cover". But in game PGI named them Annihilator, Executioner, Grasshopper, and Atlas.

Toothless, on 16 June 2018 - 05:52 AM, said:

At 5'4" and a lean ultrarunner, cyclist, and avid weight lifter for over a decade now, I am usually ~150 lbs. My friend who is 5'2" and an amateur powerlifter is a shredded 220lbs except for his barrel chest. From the front his volume is shown in the chest and quads the most, but from the side he has like twice as much depth on the z axis as I do. Just because you're taller you dont have to be heavier (and Im super short).

Well muscles do weigh 15% more then fat, sorry I couldn't resist the old joke.
Actually in your case its much likely the higher density(weight per volume) of the types of muscle fibers which is determined mostly through genetics, but theres also level of nutrition, hydration, and type of exercise over a long period of time.
Specifically in this case I'd guess your friend has more Type IIA muscle fibers, and perhaps you have more Type I or Type IIB?
ie. Boxer/Sprinter/weight lifter have fast-twitch fibers. Type II, IIA
ie. Marathon runner/skiers have more slow twitch fibers. Type I

FYI When you stop exercising for 2-3 months the Type IIA reverts back to Type IIB but you gain more IIB then when you started exercising. Start training again and build up the Type IIA yes again you'll slowly lose endurance but gain girth and power, stop for 3-4 months regaining that Type IIB plus a little more, and then start training again to convert that IIB and extra IIB again into IIA.
So what this all means is if you two were put in displacement tanks he wouldn't spill more water in the equivalent amount of weight difference, instead the amount spilled would be much closer to what you also spilled (displaced).

Hope this clarified why your friend can weigh more but be same height or even shorter.
If not contact your local heath professional, doctor, coroner... I'm sure any of them can explain muscle tissue types and their related densities with more clarity then I can, or they will be able to direct you to someone who's better able to explain.


PS. Mechs all have the same artificial "muscle" type called Myomer and hence all weighs equally.

Edited by Max Rickson, 16 June 2018 - 05:34 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

i think the perspective is really messing with how they look,
also its hard to measure them when they arnt both on flat ground,
you'd probably get better results on Mining Collective,

also when looking at both mechs in orthographic view you can really see they are mostly sized correctly,
i say mostly as all scaling has some wiggle room as some mechs have cubby holes that mess with volume,

[Y E O N N E]

Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 16 June 2018 - 05:30 PM, said:

Its way better than the Firestarter though. Firestarter is just a big brick, Wolfhound has a hexagon up at the top then a little stick waist, a whole lot less frontal area.

It's not; you need to go look again because the two 'Mechs are very similar in width and, in fact, the WLF has more easily isolated sides. It's really something of a miniature Centurion.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Yeonne Greene, on 16 June 2018 - 05:46 PM, said:

It's not; you need to go look again because the two 'Mechs are very similar in width and, in fact, the WLF has more easily isolated sides. It's really something of a miniature Centurion.

Spoiler

WLF has a bigger CT while the Firestarter is just huge side torsos, which is pretty bad for lights using XLs. Also WLF is a bit thinner ontop of having just tiny little side torsos.

[Y E O N N E]

Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 16 June 2018 - 05:54 PM, said:

Spoiler

WLF has a bigger CT while the Firestarter is just huge side torsos, which is pretty bad for lights using XLs. Also WLF is a bit thinner ontop of having just tiny little side torsos.

Nothing about that hit-box image shows the Firestarter as having bigger STs than the WLF. The WLF's are spread out horizontally, the FS9's are more vertical....which is a net loss for the WLF. The WLF also has a much bigger CT.

So, yes, the only thing making the WLF good are its gigantic armor quirks.

[Bud Crue]

Seranov, on 16 June 2018 - 04:06 PM, said:

It would be a problem if the Wolfhound wasn't a great mech. It IS a great mech, and therefore it doesn't matter how tall the dang thing is at the moment. There certainly are mechs that absolutely got hosed by the rescale, but the Wolfhound is strong regardless, to the point where I would say it was not one of them.

LOL.

The Wolfhound is great because of torso hardpoints and defensive quirks. When, yes when, PGI takes thse quirs away because their spreadsheet shows it as exceeding their internally established target values, the Wolfhound will be crap. As it is, it is the top mech among a bunch of 35 ton crap...because PGI has blessed it in their infinite wisdom to be. Nothing more.

[Seranov]

Bud Crue, on 16 June 2018 - 06:51 PM, said:

LOL.

The Wolfhound is great because of torso hardpoints and defensive quirks. When, yes when, PGI takes thse quirs away because their spreadsheet shows it as exceeding their internally established target values, the Wolfhound will be crap. As it is, it is the top mech among a bunch of 35 ton crap...because PGI has blessed it in their infinite wisdom to be. Nothing more.

That's a nonargument. At the moment, the Wolfhound is great. At some nondescript point in the future, it may not be. You don't see me saying that living sucks because the universe will eventually extinguish itself, do you? Because that's an extreme case of what you're saying. We can only go by what is happening right now. Nebulous future balance decisions that may or may not ever happen don't have anything to do with the game we are playing today.

In practice, PGI knows that the Wolfhound features prominently in competitive gameplay. If they felt it really was overperforming so much that they needed to gut the chassis of its quirks, they'd probably have done it already.

[Bud Crue]

Seranov, on 16 June 2018 - 07:16 PM, said:

That's a nonargument. At the moment, the Wolfhound is great. At some nondescript point in the future, it may not be. You don't see me saying that living sucks because the universe will eventually extinguish itself, do you? Because that's an extreme case of what you're saying. We can only go by what is happening right now. Nebulous future balance decisions that may or may not ever happen don't have anything to do with the game we are playing today.

In practice, PGI knows that the Wolfhound features prominently in competitive gameplay. If they felt it really was overperforming so much that they needed to gut the chassis of its quirks, they'd probably have done it already.

I make no argument. I agree in fact. My point is that the Wolfhound is "great" because that is the result of the quirks. Take em away, and what is the result? Not a hell of a lot. Remember the Wolfhound post rescale until last November...Yawn. No armor quirks...no play.

I love the Wolfhound, the current Wolfhound. One of the best 35 tonners, if not THEE best. I merely point out that it is great because of the artifice of PGI's imposed quirks, And PGI in the form of Russ, Paul and Chris are all on record as stating: "never buy a mech because of quirks". "Quirks are subject to change". If you want to assert that the Wolfhound is an intrinsically good mech, then why does it need all those defensive quirks? Perhaps they gave it quirks out of some conspiracy theory type view that they wanted a 35 ton IS mech to be OP? or is it more reasonable to assume that the Wolfhound has all those quirks because it needs something in order to be competitive, to be viable?

Makes no difference to me. I merely note that what PGI giveth they WILL taketh away (they are on record after all about quirks, overall quirks being thee source of power creep int he game, etc.), and when they do...then your Wolfhound will be just another unplayed (and oversized?) 35 ton mech like the rest.

.

[ShiverMeRivets]

They are called "light mechs", not "small mechs".
The hint is in the name.

... and before anyone gets all wiseass, the opposite of light mech is not dark mech...

[JadeLight]

JediPanther, on 15 June 2018 - 11:37 PM, said:

None. Guess which one is the 65 ton mech? Would you like to try learn more about mech tonnage? 40-55 tons is medium but none of those are meds. awe is 80,cat is 65,wolfie is 35. Ctfs are 70.

So thick it can't be stirred.

[Weeny Machine]

I don't want to be a party pooper but a Wolfhound is a 35t LIGHT mech (which makes things even worse)

Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood, on 16 June 2018 - 05:26 PM, said:

Way better than most of the competition though.

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king, eh?

The light mech class as a whole is struggling with a few exceptions. If the better part of one of those alphas catches you, your light mech can be crippled or even destroyed. It is plain wrong that you need to turn lights into mini tanks (e.g. Urbies) with absurd armour values or minimis (locusts) to get them working.

Just take 35t mechs like Jenners, Panthers etc. They are too large AND not agile enough to evade fire

And even if you roll a 70+ point alpha across 3 hitboxes that's still 23.3 points per box. The next alpha is internal because too much damage is coming in because of (once more) size and missing agility

Edited by Bush Hopper, 17 June 2018 - 01:31 AM.