657 replies to this topic

[Weeny Machine]

roboPrancer, on 10 July 2018 - 06:18 PM, said:

And I invite you to stop hiding your tier on your forum profile.

IS lights have the IS mpl the only laser that hasn't been nerfed to complete uselessness. Javelin with 4mpl (8tons btw) 153kph high torso mounts, better than most clan lights with a good pilot. Osiris can do it too with more jumpjets. I even enjoyed playing the obscure panther 9r with its crazy rate of fire laser fist. Almost all of which are faster or better armored than all clan lights. The mpl is the last refuge of fast IS striker lights, it has a good dps and duration and wont overheat you after a single shot.

That said it is clearly the exception that proves the rule. Light mechs have no weapons left except the ones that can boat mgs, a few mpls or play the six laser peekaboo particularly well with high agility. PGI repeatedly nerfing low tonnage builds just drives away talented light pilots. Which are the rarest players in this game because their playstyles are constantly getting ****** with just to balance the meta assaults. This is happening on both sides though not just IS and not just Clan

IS lights aren't exactly that great. A Grinner is good but are heavy or assaults worried when or feel threatened when it is about? Not really. Maybe annoyed but not threatened. And that's the problem in this game. The only objective is to to destroy the enemy mechs. Bearing this in mind the light mech class is inferior. That's also a reason why heavy and assault jocks cry bloody murder when it comes to some PIR variants - it is a light mech which cannot be ignored, like Mr. Tunnelvision-lol-alpha-laser-spam likes to do.

Also, do not complain about someone tier. Tier is no real measure for skill in this game. I could also call you that you hardly played any matches in light mechs the last 2 seasons


Edit: I also lile IS MPLs. However, on lights they require too much weight (e.g. Grinner) which makes the mech quite hot because there is not much weight left for heatsinks

Edited by Bush Hopper, 11 July 2018 - 06:45 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

MechaBattler, on 10 July 2018 - 08:54 PM, said:

Well several of them have XLs. And laser vomit is what they're most likely to die from. Plus more people might be interested in buying them if their Clan mechs are 'unfun' after the changes.

Of those points, only the last makes any sense and only if you are a cynic. IS XL 'Mechs are more likely to die prematurely from Gauss, HGauss, or ballistic hits than laser fire and, if PGI hasn't really done anything for the sake of IS XL before, they are not likely to now, locked or not.

[Gas Guzzler]

MechaBattler, on 10 July 2018 - 08:54 PM, said:

Well several of them have XLs. And laser vomit is what they're most likely to die from. Plus more people might be interested in buying them if their Clan mechs are 'unfun' after the changes.

If they want to protect IS omnis they need to nerf more than lasers. Sorry.

OR they just drop them and give them generous agility and durability with a splash of weapon quirks so they aren't garbage? Trust me, I want my Sunder, but trying to nerf Clan Gauss Vomit isn't the solution to IS omni problems.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 11 July 2018 - 11:51 AM.

[MechaBattler]

I was half joking to be honest. I don't actually believe all the conspiracy theories people keep throwing about. I just find the thought amusing.

[Weeny Machine]

I wonder, however, why we only speak about huge laser alphas. A double heavy gauss hit cannot be rolled and kills/cripples most lights and mediums more reliably than any laser vomit.

[Smutty]

Bush Hopper, on 12 July 2018 - 07:53 AM, said:

I wonder, however, why we only speak about huge laser alphas. A double heavy gauss hit cannot be rolled and kills/cripples most lights and mediums more reliably than any laser vomit.

For the love of God be quiet. They buffed HGRs for no reason already and we need to pretend they're underperforming so they don't get relegated to the bin

Ahem, what he meant to say is, "yeah HGRs are kinda bad so don't worry about changing them haHAA :^)"

[Scout Derek]

Gas Guzzler, on 11 July 2018 - 11:50 AM, said:

If they want to protect IS omnis they need to nerf more than lasers. Sorry.

OR they just drop them and give them generous agility and durability with a splash of weapon quirks so they aren't garbage? Trust me, I want my Sunder, but trying to nerf Clan Gauss Vomit isn't the solution to IS omni problems.

^^ this.

Give those IS Omnis some good quirks. Durability quirks.


Or maybe.... a special quirk for IS omnis only? Perhaps give them the same property of Clan XLs....

some things aren't followed in Lore already, wouldn't hurt to give IS omnis a reason to be in the game, or their usage/durability is just as good as clan mechs.

[Ensaine]

So, supposedly the PTS starts tomorrow.

4v4, so no real simulation of the game itself. Unfortunate this test isn't just for scouting.

4v4

How in hell is this going to give viable data?

[Tesunie]

Gas Guzzler, on 11 July 2018 - 11:50 AM, said:

If they want to protect IS omnis they need to nerf more than lasers. Sorry.

OR they just drop them and give them generous agility and durability with a splash of weapon quirks so they aren't garbage? Trust me, I want my Sunder, but trying to nerf Clan Gauss Vomit isn't the solution to IS omni problems.

In order for IS Omni's to be viable (with their locked engines), IS XL engines are going to have to change or they will most likely be DoA (something I don't say often).

As someone else suggested, maybe they could have IS XLs when locked on an Omni count like a Clan mech? Otherwise, an IS Omni-mech's weaknesses could be glaring, as you know taking a side torso on a locked IS XL on one would become common knowledge as the easiest way to drop them...


As much as I love lore, not everything in lore/TT can be translated over properly to a FPS styled video game...

[Summin]

Just watching Bear Claw's stream. This is too damn dumb, 3x clan large + meds is easy to pull off. You can get 50-60 damage alpha and another 30 with a second clan large trigger.

Just WHY. I can't wait to not buy MW5 because of this.

[NocturnalBeast]

Shaggath, on 10 July 2018 - 04:02 AM, said:

I invite you to play IS light and compare.
Except Grinner all light IS are bad it's a big joke.
8 tons of weapons on innerspere light it's a dream or you end at 80 KPH.
An useful light it's an ecm carrier.

You apparently have never been on the receiving end of broken *** IS MGs.

[roboPrancer]

Bush Hopper, on 11 July 2018 - 06:41 AM, said:

IS lights aren't exactly that great. A Grinner is good but are heavy or assaults worried when or feel threatened when it is about? Not really. Maybe annoyed but not threatened. And that's the problem in this game. The only objective is to to destroy the enemy mechs. Bearing this in mind the light mech class is inferior. That's also a reason why heavy and assault jocks cry bloody murder when it comes to some PIR variants - it is a light mech which cannot be ignored, like Mr. Tunnelvision-lol-alpha-laser-spam likes to do.

Also, do not complain about someone tier. Tier is no real measure for skill in this game. I could also call you that you hardly played any matches in light mechs the last 2 seasons


Edit: I also lile IS MPLs. However, on lights they require too much weight (e.g. Grinner) which makes the mech quite hot because there is not much weight left for heatsinks

You will also note that I have hardly played any matches at all in the last 2 seasons because this game is consistently worsening and I just find my time is better spent elsewhere. Just look at the patch notes for this month. More LRM spam, yeah, thats what everyone wants to see.

Anyway back to the topic I wanted to explain. The IS mpl is a very precise weapon perfect for good light pilots, the short burn time and 220m range make it perfect for picking off damaged components while moving at high speeds. I found since the last few round of laser nerfs they are the best weapons for mixing it up in close range, maybe boated er smalls would be just as good but IS lights dont have enough hardpoints to boat a weapon that does 3.25 dmg. Kinda like how micro lasers are terrible even if you take 15 of them. But a 24 dmg crit seeking alpha every couple seconds can do good work. Especially on an agile mech with a large cooldown quirk.

The clans have no comparable weapon system or build. Combining their lower overall agility, armor, and hotter mpls with a much longer burn time makes them pretty crappy knife fighting weapons, more comparable to the IS medium laser. And at that point you really should just take er mediums since you basically have a mid range poke build.

I'm not saying IS lights are great, or good. That is totally missing my point.. All that my original post was saying is that these changes are going to negatively affect CLAN LASER lights, and that's bad. Bad for light pilots and build diversity and it's just another nerf to light mechs capabilities in general, of which there have been A LOT in the last year or so. So I take my time elsewhere. What else can I do? I have no say in the way that PGI makes their balance decisions, and they consistently nerf the things that make the game fun for me.

Edited by roboPrancer, 13 July 2018 - 09:05 PM.

[Shaggath]

Mpl are good but only work on big light all 20 tons can't use that or end with only two.

So you end with medium or spl.

For exemple locust was good when they have extrem range quirk on spl if my memory is good it was like 80 % range.

Edited by Shaggath, 18 July 2018 - 08:08 AM.

[SPNKRGrenth]

I might as well add my thoughts to these test changes, since I tried them all out for a dozen matches. Please do note that all of my suggestions stick to the thrust of lowering the damage of Clan laser alphas, and merely aim to keep the weapon enjoyably usable and competent. All my comments and number suggestions are based on the posted PTS balance numbers.

Clan Gauss recoil: Straight up, I like this change. The recoil only lasts a short while, and makes the weapon feel more meaty to fire. I say keep this "nerf"

Clan ER and pulse large lasers: I love the ghost heat change! KEEP THIS AT ALL COSTS! I find the lower damage per burn more than worth it for the build potential it opens up. The heat needs serious tweaking though, especially for the Clan ER large, right now it heats more than it damages, a real no no for lasers. I strongly suggest 9.75 heat for the ER, and 9.5 heat for the pulse.

Clan ER small lasers: Wasn't this nerfed enough already? I would far, far rather see IS small lasers get buffed instead. As is, I'd much rather see them at 4.5 damage, 3.1 heat, 3.1 cooldown. No need to completely kill the mechs that depend on this specific weapon to perform. I suggest buffing IS smalls and ER smalls to 3.8 damage, and ER small heat lowered to 2 as a counterbalance to Clan ER smalls.

Clan ER medium lasers: Oh boy, this is the big one. As the nerf currently stands, this will fully kill the weapon, it'll be skipped at every single possible chance for heavy mediums and medium pulses instead. It still really needs a nerf badly, but not as strong as is being suggested. Instead I propose: 5.5 damage, 5 heat, 3.8 cooldown, 1.2 duration. This would make it roughly on par with the IS ER medium, rather than depressingly worse in every way but range. If absolutely nothing else, the heat must go from 5.7 to 5, or the weapon will be all but unusable on any mech that depends heavily on it to perform, especially Clan lights and mediums. Speaking of IS ER mediums, they desperately need their heat lowered to 4.2, if not 4, to have any serious usability.

Clan medium pulse lasers: This one seems mostly fine, though similar to ER smalls, I don't really see why this needs further nerfing. It does need one of two small tweaks though. Either make damage 6.5, or make heat 4.3.

Clan heavy medium lasers: The damage nerf is a little heavy handed, 8.5 damage would feel better, but overall it still feels like a usable weapon. For such a heavy damage nerf, I do suggest 6.75 heat, 5.25 cooldown.

Clan heavy large lasers: You forgot to lower the heat to match the lower damage, make it 14.5 heat. Otherwise, it's exactly the nerf I have been expecting.

Not that anything I say is gonna make even a lick of difference, which is depressing, but that is my take on the PTS changes all the same. Clan lasers needed nerfing, especially the ER medium, but I really don't want to see Clan lasers killed either. That'll just continue the same broken cycle of overnerfing a line of weapons hard enough to remove it from regular use, and that's not healthy for the game.

Edited by SPNKRGrenth, 18 July 2018 - 12:05 PM.

[Toastedpuppy1]

Ok I am starting to have problems believing that nerfing Lasers is needed in this game. I am an Old BT Player and have been a fan from its inception. i do know that you think play issues are at stake and i disagree to this. There is supposed to be NO pairity between the IS and Clan lasers clans were and are ment to do a little more damage for almost double the heat when you make it so you spend more heat then damage for the weapon it basically kills the system and you RUIN most of the medium and small mech builds and i for one am against this. If anything instead of increasing HEAT on clans why dont you take a little heat off the IS weapons for balance.
Thank you

[lazorbeamz]

I like how you are trying diffirent approaches and will compare results with diffirent pts patchlogs. A good way to do it. I was hoping for a damage decrease on lasers but perhaps a smaller decrease with a duration increase is more or less the same thing.

Looking forwards to testing and results.

[Gas Guzzler]

Holy crap. I can't believe we got this close to this disaster.

The game is so much better off now, so thankful for that. This trip down memory lane has really showed me where the hope for this game was lost and how it has been restored.

[tenchugecko]

Fix things like forced playing of Missile Boat's on Solaris, before doing another Excel Sheet Rally on Data affected by a Broken Matchmaker, broken Maps, broken LRM Mechanics and a broken LRM Warning Sound and Alpha mechs.

The Maps need to be balanced first, like new canyon etc.