26 replies to this topic

[Neutron IX]

First off, let me just start by saying...



And now that that's out of the way, I was hoping it would be possible to get some clarifying follow up statements that could definitively answer the following questions, clearly and concisely, without violating any NDA terms and the like.

Earlier, Russ included this...

Harmony Gold and Piranha Games are delighted to announce that they have ended their dispute. Piranha Games will continue to use the “classic” BattleTech designs and Harmony Gold and Piranha Games look forward to continuing to serve their respective fans and customers.

I just want to be clear in understanding...

1). "classic" means "Re-seen", right?

2). If so, does it apply only to mechs included in the game so far, or is there still hope we might eventually get some of our missing favorites (Wasp, Crusader, etc.) added in the future?

3). I know you are specifically PGI, and it might not be possible to answer this, but might this also free up HBS/CGL to follow the same course as PGI in the use of "classic" designs?

Anyhow, thanks so very much for all your work behind the scenes on this, and even though you can't talk about it in detail, congratulations, and "high-fives" all around from so, so many of us out here who were rooting for you (and by extension, us all ).

Cheers!

-Rip

Edited by Rip Snorgan, 21 June 2018 - 10:35 AM.

[Vanguard836]

As per his post, that's all he's allowed to say about it, is that statement.

Edited by Vanguard836, 21 June 2018 - 10:38 AM.

[SmokedJag]

They settled. Terms are confidential. The outcome is that MWO and presumably MW5 or a MWO2 are not impacted by HG trolls. Exactly what the details are will never be disclosed.

[Nightbird]

You'll know the answer anyways if you wait a bit.

[Verilligo]

That's very odd language and doesn't say much about which designs are and are not allowed for use. But my general assumption is that the "classic" is being used to directly refer to the tabletop game as a whole, thus mechs like the Wasp and Crusader would be allowed for use, provided the version put forward isn't a 1:1 duplicate of a Veritech fighter. In other words, so long as future mechs are redesigned like Alex's interpretation of the Marauder or Warhammer, all is good.

[Neutron IX]

Verilligo, on 21 June 2018 - 10:45 AM, said:

That's very odd language and doesn't say much about which designs are and are not allowed for use. But my general assumption is that the "classic" is being used to directly refer to the tabletop game as a whole, thus mechs like the Wasp and Crusader would be allowed for use, provided the version put forward isn't a 1:1 duplicate of a Veritech fighter. In other words, so long as future mechs are redesigned like Alex's interpretation of the Marauder or Warhammer, all is good.

That's precisely what I'm hoping for...*fingers crossed*.

[Agent of Change]

Verilligo, on 21 June 2018 - 10:45 AM, said:

That's very odd language and doesn't say much about which designs are and are not allowed for use. But my general assumption is that the "classic" is being used to directly refer to the tabletop game as a whole, thus mechs like the Wasp and Crusader would be allowed for use, provided the version put forward isn't a 1:1 duplicate of a Veritech fighter. In other words, so long as future mechs are redesigned like Alex's interpretation of the Marauder or Warhammer, all is good.

That's best case and something to hold out for, but I do wonder at the deliberate vagueness of the term. It could mean a lot of things both good and bad and I'm not inclined to be particularly optimistic where confidential lawsuit settlements are concerned.

[MeiSooHaityu]

This is probably the only additional bit of clarification we are likely to get (from Russ Bullock's Twitter Account)...
https://twitter.com/...842368541913090

Imperius: Ok so can you say good or bad? [in reference to the PGI statement]

Russ Bullock: Ive said all I can but isn't it apparent? I mean seems like pretty darn good news to me.



Although this doesn't clear up too much, at least know that Russ and PGI are happy with how things turned out.

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 21 June 2018 - 10:55 AM.

[Agent of Change]

MeiSooHaityu, on 21 June 2018 - 10:54 AM, said:

Although this doesn't clear up too much, at least know that Russ and PGI are happy with how things turned out.

Clear as mud, but one can assume that it means PGI isn't losing essential IP rights or Money required to sustain their existing projects. SO that can be interpreted as good, because there likely wouldn't be a positive attitude if they had.

Though we could get conspiratorial and wonder if teh suddenly announced delay of MW5 had anything to do with the terms of this settlement.

[Verilligo]

MeiSooHaityu, on 21 June 2018 - 10:54 AM, said:

This is probably the only additional bit of clarification we are likely to get (from Russ Bullock's Twitter Account)...
https://twitter.com/...842368541913090

Imperius: Ok so can you say good or bad? [in reference to the PGI statement]

Russ Bullock: Ive said all I can but isn't it apparent? I mean seems like pretty darn good news to me.



Although this doesn't clear up too much, at least know that Russ and PGI are happy with how things turned out.

Well there were only three ways this could go.

1. HG "wins" and forces PGI to remove all offending mechs from the game. The upside for PGI is that they don't get sued for additional damages, etc.
2. PGI "wins" and is allowed access to all mechs from the tabletop. The upside for HG is they aren't legalbombed back into the stone age.
3. A "tie" and PGI keeps all mechs currently in the game, but is not allowed to create any more offending mechs.

Given what we know of HG, specifically that they are in fact jackholes, they would likely only go to the settlement table if option 2 or 3 were what they were facing. Given Russ seemed pleased, and certainly pleased enough to issue a formal statement on the forums as well as a "pretty darn good" backup statement, I'd say we're looking at option 2. Option 3 would generally only be an official statement given as legal courtesy to a reporter.

Edited by Verilligo, 21 June 2018 - 11:02 AM.

[Thorn Hallis]

If we don't get Wasp, Stinger and/or Crusader in the next three months you will know the deal was {Redacted}.

[JediPanther]

I agree with thorn. Sting/wasps need to be added to the game. Basically all russ said is it's over and we're happy to still be in the business of selling mech packs. I'd double down on sting/waps if they had a / key function that worked like masc temporarily going into from one mode to the other for a slight mobility,acceleration,deceleration and turning boost.

[Justin Kase]

Rip Snorgan, on 21 June 2018 - 10:34 AM, said:

Cheers!

I don't like the vagueness of the "classic" wording, it is likely detailed more in a document we shall never see.

But, I have severe hopes that this might mean we will see the Stinger, Wasp, Charger, Valkyrie

[Marauder3D]

Thorn Hallis, on 21 June 2018 - 11:23 AM, said:

If we don't get Wasp, Stinger and/or Crusader in the next three months you will know the deal was {Redacted}.

I've been saying this for years, and it has never been more possible than it is today.

Make a 4 mech pack called "Victory"

Include Wasp/Stinger/Crusader/Longbow. Charge the same you did for the Project Phoenix pack back in the day, but DON'T make it exclusive, limited time only.

Profit. Every single grognard will buy it, and some of us don't even play the game anymore. I'll buy it for the good service you've done the community.

Cheers PGI. I didn't think I'd ever say that again, but Cheers. Thank you.

[Justin Kase]

If the July Mech Pack is a double up Wasp/Stinger - I'd buy it in a heartbeat - if only to help throw some many back at PGI for the recent legal fees.

[justcallme A S H]

MeiSooHaityu, on 21 June 2018 - 10:54 AM, said:

Although this doesn't clear up too much, at least know that Russ and PGI are happy with how things turned out.

Well yeah... You have to be.
You can't come out slinging / be negative and so on even if what was agreed (or rather, paid out) kicked you in the nuts...

[Ken Harkin]

I know people were praying for a curb stomp decision to HG but that was never going to happen if this went any further than not being dismissed.

PGI wanted the rights to the designs and were prepared to go to the mattresses for them.

HG cannot afford to lose a decision clearly nullifying their, baseless in my opinion, claim to those designs.

When PGI didn't blink and the HG case began to crumble, they weren't even prepared to support their claims to the court, HG had to enter into a settlement and PGI as a business would have been foolish not to. Why spend another couple years worth of lawyer fees when they could get the rights they needed for less via settlement.

PGI also benefits by HG still claiming IP as it will dissuade others from competing with PGI using those same designs. For the overall BT community it isn't great but it is good for MWO and for PGI as a company.

I would wager we will see the other unseen in time.

[Verilligo]

justcallme A S H, on 21 June 2018 - 01:25 PM, said:

Well yeah... You have to be.
You can't come out slinging / be negative and so on even if what was agreed (or rather, paid out) kicked you in the nuts...

Not necessarily. You can also be indifferent and direct to the point. Russ actually saying they're happy is unnecessary, but he did so anyway.

[Ken Harkin]

I also think it very likely PGI spent less to settle this than they would to win a decision. HG had to avoid a decision. PGI had the case. PGI likely dictated the terms of the condition in a way which was acceptable to both parties but did not adversely impact PGI. I don't know the exact details but some knowledge of negotiation principals and the direction this was going makes it pretty simple to deduce.

[Marauder3D]

My thought is this though: PGI knows, for a fact, that they made truckloads of money when they released Project Phoenix, and a similar truckload when they released the Marauder, Warhammer, Archer, Rifleman, and Phoenix Hawk.

Would they agree not to release more unseen when they have proven to be great sellers? That seems to be against their financial interest.

I for one, pray for the day they offer more unseen mech packs. Because I'm buying every single damn one. I feel I owe it to PGI. I'm not kidding. I owe them. And I pay my debts.