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Ammo Damage Ratios

ammo damage

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Poll: Ammo Damage Ratios (15 member(s) have cast votes)

How should damage-per-ton be set?

  1. Whatever they have now is fine. (2 votes [13.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 13.33%

  2. Amounts should descend in a linear fashion as you go up in caliber. (2 votes [13.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 13.33%

  3. Amounts should be equal across all calibers. (10 votes [66.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 66.67%

  4. I regret wasting time with this poll; Give me back my life. (1 votes [6.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.67%

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#1 Generic Internetter

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 12:26 PM

Dear PGI,

Looking at the new quantities for ammo, I see that the damage-per-ton (DPT) ratio hasn't changed very much at all, and remains messy.

Is this intentional? If not, then are you planning to change it?

Just for clarity, I'm referring to the total amount of damage output each ton of ammo carries.

For example, as of this patch the 1 Ton amounts for the IS ACs are:
AC2: 87 rounds x 2 damage = 174 damage per ton
AC5: 35 rounds x 5 damage = 175 damage per ton
AC10: 23 rounds x 10 damage = 230 damage per ton
AC20: 8 rounds x 20 damage = 160 damage per ton

174 -> 175 -> 230 -> 160
Pretty steady for the AC2 and AC5 at around 175 dpt, then a sudden jump up to 230 for the AC10, then a sudden drop to 160 for the AC20.
Doesn't seem right... Almost equal, then jump up, then jump down.

I would have thought it would make sense for the total DPT to be a linear decline across the weapon calibers like this:


AC2: 175 rounds x 2 damage = 350 damage per ton
AC5: 60 rounds x 5 damage = 300 damage per ton
AC10: 25 rounds x 10 damage = 250 damage per ton
AC20: 10 rounds x 20 damage = 200 damage per ton

350 -> 300 -> 250 -> 200
That just seems to be more sensible; The bigger ammo takes more weight so you get less DPT as you go up in caliber.

Another sensible option would be simply to arrange for 1 Ton to carry the same DPT across all calibers, like so:


AC2: 100 rounds x 2 damage = 200 damage per ton
AC5: 40 rounds x 5 damage = 200 damage per ton
AC10: 20 rounds x 10 damage = 200 damage per ton
AC20: 10 rounds x 20 damage = 200 damage per ton

All 200
Simple! Each ton of ammo gives you 200 damage output.
(Edit: In very simplified terms... Logically one ton of explosives is still one ton, regardless of how many "packets" it's split into. I could take a ton of anything and split it into 1000 pieces; The total weight is still one ton.)

PGI response appreciated. Other players also.

Edited by Generic Internetter, 01 July 2018 - 01:51 PM.


#2 Calebos

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Posted 21 June 2018 - 11:41 AM

Do not argue with math. PGI do not understand much easier problematics :)

#3 TAPAH 483-K

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Posted 21 June 2018 - 01:00 PM

Do not forget about the distance of weapons and DPS
ac 2 very long range but easy to miss
ac 5 like ac 2 but better DPS DPH DPS/T less range
ac 10 low velocity mid range wrong DPH (mech at this distance does not live long)
ac 20 close range gives the best accuracy

if you look at all the characteristics of the weapon, you can see that the current DPT is best
https://mwo.smurfy-net.de/equipment here full stats

Edited by TAPAH 483-K, 21 June 2018 - 01:09 PM.


#4 BTGbullseye

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Posted 27 June 2018 - 12:19 AM

You missed another poll option: "Something else, reply to thread."

My suggestion: (AC should aim for 210 DPT, round up. Gauss should aim for 200, round down.)
U/AC2: 85 shots. (170 DPT) +10 shots per skill node. (210 max DPT)
U/AC5: 36 shots. (180 DPT) +3 shots per skill node. (210 max DPT)
U/AC10: 17 shots. (170 DPT) +2 shots per skill node. (210 max DPT)
U/AC20: 8 shots. (160 DPT) +1 shot per skill node. (220 max DPT)
LGauss: 21 shots. (168 DPT) +2 shots per skill node. (200 max DPT)
Gauss: 11 shots. (180 DPT) +1 shot per skill node. (195 max DPT)
HGauss: 6 shots. (175 DPT) +1 shot per skill node. (200 max DPT)

Your initial calculations ignored skill nodes... Here's the current DPT with both skill nodes unlocked:
U/AC2: 208 DPT (+8 shots per node)
U/AC5: 205 DPT (+3 shots per node)
U/AC10: 270 DPT (+2 shots per node)
U/AC20: 240 DPT (+1 shot per node)
LGauss: 192 DPT (+2 shots per node)
Gauss: 180 DPT (+1 shot per node)
HGauss: 175 DPT (+1 shot per node)

Edited by BTGbullseye, 27 June 2018 - 12:21 AM.


#5 Generic Internetter

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Posted 01 July 2018 - 01:46 PM

View PostBTGbullseye, on 27 June 2018 - 12:19 AM, said:

You missed another poll option: "Something else, reply to thread."


Dammit, you're right... Sorry about that.

View PostBTGbullseye, on 27 June 2018 - 12:19 AM, said:

Your initial calculations ignored skill nodes.


Yeah, I didn't want to complicate it further. I figured that if they get the base values correct then they would adjust the skill nodes if necessary.

In your figures I like how they are all roughly equal DPT, although it still bothers me that they jump up and down between calibres (even though you explained this with rounding up/down).

Edited by Generic Internetter, 01 July 2018 - 01:52 PM.


#6 Generic Internetter

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Posted 01 July 2018 - 01:49 PM

View PostTAPAH 483-K, on 21 June 2018 - 01:00 PM, said:

Do not forget about the distance of weapons and DPS
ac 2 very long range but easy to miss
ac 5 like ac 2 but better DPS DPH DPS/T less range
ac 10 low velocity mid range wrong DPH (mech at this distance does not live long)
ac 20 close range gives the best accuracy


Distance is already offset by damage and DPS. The further you shoot, the less damage and DPS you do.
Distance, damage, and DPS have nothing to do with ammo DPT.
Because distance-vs-damage is already accounted for, logically the DPT should be equal across all calibres.

View PostTAPAH 483-K, on 21 June 2018 - 01:00 PM, said:

ac 2 very long range but easy to miss


Easy to miss? The AC2 has the highest velocity, so if you're trying to get technical you'd need to calculate time to optimal range.
Then again, missing is down to player skill; Not a metric for game balance!


View PostTAPAH 483-K, on 21 June 2018 - 01:00 PM, said:

ac 20 close range gives the best accuracy


No, the AC2 has the best accuracy since the projectiles travel faster, resulting is less lead time/distance and less bullet dip. The AC20 has the worst accuracy out of the ACs.

If you meant that the AC20 is best at close range, then yes I agree as per the distance being offset by damage and DPS, as stated above.

Edited by Generic Internetter, 01 July 2018 - 01:58 PM.






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