141 replies to this topic

[Guile Votoms]

Remove Escort.

And remove Incursion from Faction Play, while you're at it.

Edited by Guile Votoms, 05 July 2018 - 03:53 AM.

[The Mysterious Fox]

KoalaBrownie, on 03 July 2018 - 12:20 PM, said:

Escort, along with Conquest, are the two best game modes in the game as they force players to commit to mobile, dynamic combat situations at different parts of the map. As opposed to the typical game where both teams take up a position and then proceed to engage in long-range napoleonic warfare, shooting, standing, shooting until one team affixes bayonets for a charge.

While Conquest shows up regularly, Escort only seems to pop up once in every 25+ games and then is often not voted for. It really ought to come around more often.

Meanwhile a game mode like Skirmish ought really to be removed or reduced in frequency since the existence of Assault makes it redundant and its only difference is to discourage the use of light and medium mechs.

you just want the world to burn because mw5 got delayed right

[Mechwarrior1441491]

I do agree that enforcing mobile conflict, splitting lances up etc is good for the game. The best fights in the game are usually on Conquest as it is more localized and not death balls in the same grid. They need more modes that push people into this kind of interaction.

[B0oN]

Flash news right from the Escort front !
How thin can this Koala be stretched by a seemingly quite large opposition force ?
He´s defending himself like the beast he is, yet there is no measurable success to be seen .
Tune in for the next news flash to find out more … or even less .

Koala, in all honesty : give up your idea, even you should have acknowledged by now that a fair amount of the better players that are still left in MWO are choir-singing their catchy and well-made "Escort is bad" tune against your lone voice with it´s stammering rendition of "You are all playing it wrong" .
I cannot even begin to hear you over how wonky the Escort AI is meowing alongside you, get over it .

#case erppc´d, your honour, close and bury it pleasethankskewlbye .

[RandomCast]

Never in all my years of gaming have I've seen people ask for less game features rather then asking to improve gameplay. I do not mind Escort as a game mode. It is something different, but I do think it does need to see some rework or changes to make it more enjoyable. I can see this in a few ways.

1. Make the VIP a random player of Assault class mech: This will fix a lot of issue with the bad pathing and allow the VIP to fight back in some cases. You can also make it that the enemy team doesn't know who it is until they kill that mech.

2. Change it that attacking team has to "capture" VIP with out killing. Put a capture ring around the VIP so that if the enemy is in the ring for a short time that they get the VIP and have to move him to the exit point. For this I would say that the VIP starts more so near the middle of the map (closer to the defending side maybe) and have that teams fight for control. This does sound like Domination and for the most part it would be but with a different aspect of having the cap point change sides.

3. Both teams get an escort that the other has to kill. This will make the game mode more about applying the correct amount of attack and defense. Make it so that they both get within 800m range near the middle to make the fight more interesting. I would make it that the escort has weapons (stock) and more armor.

Edited by RandomCast, 05 July 2018 - 08:13 AM.

[KoalaBrownie]

The Mysterious Fox, on 05 July 2018 - 03:57 AM, said:

you just want the world to burn because mw5 got delayed right

Don't know anything about MW5 beyond the initial announcement video

B0oN, on 05 July 2018 - 06:07 AM, said:

Koala, in all honesty : give up your idea, even you should have acknowledged by now that a fair amount of the better players that are still left in MWO are choir-singing their catchy and well-made "Escort is bad" tune against your lone voice with it´s stammering rendition of "You are all playing it wrong" .

Again, contribute or leave.
Further Mechwarrior1441491 is on my side of the argument, I'm not the "lone voice".

RandomCast, on 05 July 2018 - 08:13 AM, said:

Never in all my years of gaming have I've seen people ask for less game features rather then asking to improve gameplay. I do not mind Escort as a game mode. It is something different, but I do think it does need to see some rework or changes to make it more enjoyable. I can see this in a few ways.

1. Make the VIP a random player of Assault class mech: This will fix a lot of issue with the bad pathing and allow the VIP to fight back in some cases. You can also make it that the enemy team doesn't know who it is until they kill that mech.

2. Change it that attacking team has to "capture" VIP with out killing. Put a capture ring around the VIP so that if the enemy is in the ring for a short time that they get the VIP and have to move him to the exit point. For this I would say that the VIP starts more so near the middle of the map (closer to the defending side maybe) and have that teams fight for control. This does sound like Domination and for the most part it would be but with a different aspect of having the cap point change sides.

3. Both teams get an escort that the other has to kill. This will make the game mode more about applying the correct amount of attack and defense. Make it so that they both get within 800m range near the middle to make the fight more interesting. I would make it that the escort has weapons (stock) and more armor.

The problem with all of these ideas is that they turn the game mode into skirmish because the correct course of action in all three cases would be the elimination of the enemy team before dealing with the objective.

#1 is the worst of the ideas, as you'll have 11 people either mad at the VIP or ordering them around. And if that guy is AFK, or decides to YOLO or otherwise do something silly then the game is ruined. Many people may claim the AI is bad, but it's predictable, removing it as a variable in the gameplay. When its predictable the game is decided by the players not the VIP.

Edited by KoalaBrownie, 05 July 2018 - 09:27 AM.

[Bombast]

RandomCast, on 05 July 2018 - 08:13 AM, said:

Never in all my years of gaming have I've seen people ask for less game features rather then asking to improve gameplay.

MWO is a special place. We want features removed instead of added (Well, we want both, but thats something else). Increasing the playerbase's size is directly related to reduced quality in matches, as is improved match making times. FP needs more team restrictions, not less. The competitive scene has regressed gameplay, not progressive.

Fun.

Edited by Bombast, 05 July 2018 - 09:18 AM.

[Bud Crue]

RandomCast, on 05 July 2018 - 08:13 AM, said:

Never in all my years of gaming have I've seen people ask for less game features rather then asking to improve gameplay...

If Escort wasn’t such a dumpster fire of a mode then people would not be asking for its removal or even the more passive reality of simply refusing to vote for it. If we thought there was a reasonable chance that PGI would/could fix its most glaring issues, then maybe folks would play it more. But for years now the community has very clearly explained what needs to be fixed (see your own post examples as an example), and it has become obvious that PGI doesn’t care to make such fixes or is simply incapable of doing so. So where does that leave us? If “asking for less” means I am stuck with variations of skirmish, but asking for more means getting “game features” like a mode focused around a lost and obviously inebriated Atlas, I’ll ask for less, thank you very much.

[Quxudica]

KoalaBrownie, on 03 July 2018 - 12:20 PM, said:

Escort, along with Conquest, are the two best game modes in the game as they force players to commit to mobile, dynamic combat situations at different parts of the map. As opposed to the typical game where both teams take up a position and then proceed to engage in long-range napoleonic warfare, shooting, standing, shooting until one team affixes bayonets for a charge.

While Conquest shows up regularly, Escort only seems to pop up once in every 25+ games and then is often not voted for. It really ought to come around more often.

Meanwhile a game mode like Skirmish ought really to be removed or reduced in frequency since the existence of Assault makes it redundant and its only difference is to discourage the use of light and medium mechs.

Escort needs a lower frequency. Preferably 0.

[Kreytose]

What they need to do, is to allow people to select maps/modes that they want to play, and give them the ability to reject maps/modes they don't want. This will solve the issue all around for everyone. Until then, people will bail on maps/modes the refuse to play. Simple problem, simple answer.

[KoalaBrownie]

Logoth, on 05 July 2018 - 01:59 PM, said:

What they need to do, is to allow people to select maps/modes that they want to play, and give them the ability to reject maps/modes they don't want. This will solve the issue all around for everyone. Until then, people will bail on maps/modes the refuse to play. Simple problem, simple answer.

Yes splitting the player base rather than punishing bad player behaviour (bailing on maps/modes) will do wonders for the game.

[Quxudica]

KoalaBrownie, on 05 July 2018 - 02:00 PM, said:

Yes splitting the player base rather than punishing bad player behaviour (bailing on maps/modes) will do wonders for the game.

If players can choose the game mode they want to play, and one game mode almost never gets played; then that is the player base telling the devs that mode is broken or unwanted. Forcing players to play something they don't want to play is not the solution, at least not one conducive to a healthy game or player base.

[KoalaBrownie]

Quxudica, on 05 July 2018 - 02:26 PM, said:

If players can choose the game mode they want to play, and one game mode almost never gets played; then that is the player base telling the devs that mode is broken or unwanted. Forcing players to play something they don't want to play is not the solution, at least not one conducive to a healthy game or player base.

The player base isn't one person, nor a hive mind, It's made up of thousands of different people with different likes and dislikes. Part of having a successful game and a healthy player base is appealing to more than one type of player. Appealing only to what the majority wants would shrink the player base and reduce the quality of the game for those that remained through higher wait times, reduce variety of gameplay styles, etcetera.

Some people clearly like Escort, just like some people like playing on Caustic Valley instead of Canyon on occasion. PGI would be aware of the hard metric data that told them pick rates, report rates, etcetera. If they feel that the inclusion of Escort is impacting their business, their bottom line, they would probably change it. The fact that it hasn't been changed suggests that its benefiting the game rather than detracting from it, regardless of what the vocal minority says.

Likewise its reduced frequency is probably to appease the masses who want to skirmish HPG 100% of the time and the other people who like to do something different.

[Spheroid]

No the number is not vast. Escort is widely hated, WIDELY.


Also let this topic die. You have vainly bumped it for the better part of a day.

Edited by Spheroid, 05 July 2018 - 02:50 PM.

[KoalaBrownie]

Spheroid, on 05 July 2018 - 02:48 PM, said:

No the number is not vast. Escort is widely hated, WIDELY.

Cite your sources.

[Quxudica]

KoalaBrownie, on 05 July 2018 - 02:46 PM, said:

The player base isn't one person, nor a hive mind, It's made up of thousands of different people with different likes and dislikes.

Which leads into; If players could actively choose the modes they play, and most of those thousands of players are avoiding one mode in particular; then that mode is the problem.

Quote

The fact that it hasn't been changed suggests that its benefiting the game rather than detracting from it,

I lost that level of faith in PGI somewhere around the end of closed beta tbh.

Quote

Likewise its reduced frequency is probably to appease the masses who want to skirmish HPG 100% of the time and the other people who like to do something different.

I'd wager most of the player base would love a mode with real objectives that are more than just "kill everything", myself absolutely included. I've written volumes in posts over the years trying to generate discussion on how to improve Conquest, Assault, on how Mechs should be more than just giant gun turrets, on how rolewarfare should be a real pillar like it was originally meant to be and just how to generally add more depth to the gameplay. Problem is PGI has simply not been able to effectively provide that.

Escort is a dumpster fire combination of the worst most generally reviled mission type in gaming history, and PGI's trademark
minimum effort style; They couldn't even be bothered creating a unique vehicle for the mode, it's literally just a copy/pasted atlas with essentially no AI at all that walks an arbitrary line on maps that were never designed for this kind of thing. I played PS2 shooters nearly 15 years ago that had more thought and depth invested into a similar game mode than MWO's take on it.

[S O L A I S]

KoalaBrownie, on 05 July 2018 - 02:52 AM, said:

I was criticising the play of the enemy team, why on earth would you assume I was talking about the guy doing the video?

In one video he does the most damage to the enemy VIP, using lasers in clear view of everyone and not a single player shoots at him except some light mech at the very start.

In another video, no one on the enemy team has 100 damage while most players on his team have done 2 or 300 damage.

If you think those situations reflect a typical game, you probably need to play more.

That's rich, you telling people how they should play. Go try and kill O'Neil and bring a friend. See how that works out for you. Oh and since you threw out you thought it may have been rigged, yes it appears you were talking about the guy in the video.

You are also missing the point, the game can be ended easily. One of the many reasons the mode is so unpopular.

[SFC174]

KoalaBrownie, on 05 July 2018 - 02:46 PM, said:

PGI would be aware of the hard metric data that told them pick rates, report rates, etcetera. If they feel that the inclusion of Escort is impacting their business, their bottom line, they would probably change it. The fact that it hasn't been changed suggests that its benefiting the game rather than detracting from it, regardless of what the vocal minority says.

Obvious troll continues to be obvious. Prove your assertion hypocrite. lol. This guy deserves the troll of the week award. If he keeps it going through Sunday, troll of the month.

[Mechwarrior1441491]

Quxudica, on 05 July 2018 - 02:26 PM, said:

If players can choose the game mode they want to play, and one game mode almost never gets played; then that is the player base telling the devs that mode is broken or unwanted. Forcing players to play something they don't want to play is not the solution, at least not one conducive to a healthy game or player base.

There will always be a mode that is the least played over other modes. This entire conversation is moot.

[Mechwarrior1441491]

I've actually never had a really bad escort match. I always try and fight the tip of the spear while other team members attempt to attack the tail or flank. I am all about maneuver warfare and if a mode forces it, I'm fine with that. It can be tweaked.

Give the drop commander options to give the VIP coordinates, so, there are multiple paths that it can go. It does have the option of actually needing "information warfare." Light mechs relaying information so drop commander can decide which route to direct the VIP.