46 replies to this topic

[DarkFhoenix]

Alright sweet sweet mechbays .

Thanks PGI .

[Black Ivan]

Lol, looks like distracting people from the PTS Clan Apha nerf so that nobody will test there and the changes roll throught to the live server.

[G a i s u t o]

-Redacted-

Edited by The Excavator, 11 July 2018 - 10:43 PM.

[Arkhangel]

Serenna187, on 11 July 2018 - 05:00 PM, said:

Is that a cheap attempt to distract people from the Alpha Nerf on the test server? hmmm..perhaps

you do realize stuff on the test server is so they can TEST it? it doesn't mean it's happening. that's like being worried you'll get hit by a lightning bolt if you go outside. when it's sunny out. and the next thunderstorm is forecast several months from then.

PraetorGix, on 11 July 2018 - 07:22 PM, said:

Yeah sure, these are the "alpha lance" mechs. But no, just no. First, the sale could just been called "alpha lance", secondly, these are not only alpha lance mechs. So yeah, regardless of what some comments say, for me this sure feels like PGI giving everyone who complained about the upcoming nerfs the middle finger. So we should give them the middle finger and not spend a single penny/MC on these.

they AREN'T NERFS, they're something PGI IS TESTING ON THE PTS. that doesn't mean they're going to happen.

it's called a TEST server for a reason. sheesh. lack of sense much?

Edited by Arkhangel, 12 July 2018 - 12:34 AM.

[Marius Evander]

Arkhangel, on 12 July 2018 - 12:32 AM, said:

you do realize stuff on the test server is so they can TEST it? it doesn't mean it's happening. that's like being worried you'll get hit by a lightning bolt if you go outside. when it's sunny out. and the next thunderstorm is forecast several months from then.

You do realise only 2 out of 10 PTS pgi run don't gone to live as they are ? (energy draw and infotech)

Why only the Permanent patterns and not the one shots =(

[Arkhangel]

Black Ivan, on 11 July 2018 - 10:25 PM, said:

Lol, looks like distracting people from the PTS Clan Apha nerf so that nobody will test there and the changes roll throught to the live server.

*eyeroll* You know, they wouldn't even be considering it if clan pilots actually used other weapons.

a lot of forumwarriors on here tend to forget stuff in an MMO only tends to get nerfed if it's ridiculously overused. a good equivalent to this would be the Ishtar Heavy Assault Cruiser in EVE Online. for a good roughly eight years, everyone and their sister owned an Ishtar, and you might see one of the other three HACs once in a blue moon. The Ishtar finally recieved a nerf to one of its ship bonuses, and actually gave the other three HACs a chance to compete.

same thing applies to Clan Weapons. sure, Lasers are precise and all that, but you have other weapon choices. you always have, and all of them are longer ranged than their IS equivalents. if you just started bringing Clan mechs that actually carried a MIX of weapon types, your precious lasers wouldn't get nerfed (not to mention you'd actually have a chance in hell of surviving a Brawl with IS since you wouldn't overheat and die as much).

fact is, be aware that while PGI does the nerfing in the end, it's still the players that make them come to that decision. it always has been. Same thing happened with the UAC nerf due to Mauler and Kodiak overuse. or the LRM nerf way back, etc. Actually learning how to make effective balanced mixed builds makes your favorite weapon systems less likely to get nerfed, not to mention makes you a lot more unpredictable in combat.

Edited by Arkhangel, 12 July 2018 - 12:45 AM.

[Daggett]

Arkhangel, on 12 July 2018 - 12:36 AM, said:

Actually learning how to make effective balanced mixed builds makes your favorite weapon systems less likely to get nerfed, not to mention makes you a lot more unpredictable in combat.

That's not how balancing works.
Sure, massive overuse of an item is a good hint. But it must always be backed by evidence before any action is taken because not every under- or overuse is caused by an imbalance.

On the other hand if you only look at overused items i'ts quite likely that other slightly overpowered items keep under your radar. For example this can be caused by mechanics which make an item harder to use than other items. Which in turn can mean that the item is only overpowered when used by very good players.

In MWO light mechs kinda fall into this category. They are heavily underused because they don't fit the 'big stompy robot' experience many players are here for and are also much harder to play successfully than other classes.
But despite their low usage they are not underpowered, it's just that only the best pilots can utilize their full potential. So PGI has to monitor them equally close than the more used mech-classes.

It also makes a difference by which players an item is used massively. Take LRMs for example: Overall they are heavily used, there is rarely a day without a thread whining about them. But most top-players don't use them much because they are unreliable. You can have some great games with 'em, but you are also guaranteed matches where you can't do much with 'em.
So they are currently in a state where they are very strong in lower tiers where players lack the experience to avoid them but underwhelming in higher ones with more experienced players.

So if you would just look at usage than LRMs would probably deserve a nerf. But such a nerf would not make the weapon better balanced. It takes a different approach if the goal is to make them a valid choice for both casual and competitive players.

Edited by Daggett, 12 July 2018 - 02:02 AM.

[Arkhangel]

not saying it's entirely why... but in my experience, Clanners ARE pretty one-trick-pony on their builds though. granted, most IS are as well. makes me want to scream every time i see some idiot with a mech carrying nothing but LRMs. especially if they're the last guy on the team. I mean, c'mon, always have at least one backup weapon, especially when your main weapon has a minimum range (why PPCs and SPLs/HMGs mesh so well, getting inside the effective range of one just means you walked into the effective range of the other).

[SmokeGuar]

Big locked engine. That is major "problem" with lot of Clan omnis. These mechs simply don't have free tonnage to carry mixed builds, but are forced to use lot of med and small lasers. Tinkering with battlemechs gives way more build options that Omnis can only dream.

[Arkhangel]

SmokeGuar, on 12 July 2018 - 02:18 AM, said:

Big locked engine. That is major "problem" with lot of Clan omnis. These mechs simply don't have free tonnage to carry mixed builds, but are forced to use lot of med and small lasers. Tinkering with battlemechs gives way more build options that Omnis can only dream.

in fairness, Clan stuff is lighter and smaller than IS stuff. problem is if you guys go ballistics, you're invariably either going big-ticket ballistics, or a crapton of small ones. that and most "Alpha" builds I've seen're actually Clan Large ERs, which take up enough space your omni could easily be packing a UAC/10 or ERPPC... actually, to be honest, apart from Novas and the Omnis with the "Novafists" i don't think i've ever seen omnis using a lot of small/med energies. the main culprits i've seen've always been ERLL Hellbringers.

[Pain G0D]

If i may offer my 2 cents . If we are talking classics sales ? Some included mechs perhaps .

The first mechwarrior simulator also had a locust , jenner , shadowhawk and battlemaster . The MWO Jenner iic looks exactly like mechwarrior 1 jenner .

Robotech ? Well i had a robotech colouring in book as a kiddy and Battlemaster is definatly in there , possibly the armoured valkyrie ?

[MovinTarget]

TheOrphanator, on 11 July 2018 - 07:14 PM, said:

I think people are missing the alpha lance joke...

TRIGGEREDDDDD!!!!!!!

[Serenna187]

SmokeGuar, on 12 July 2018 - 02:18 AM, said:

Big locked engine. That is major "problem" with lot of Clan omnis. These mechs simply don't have free tonnage to carry mixed builds, but are forced to use lot of med and small lasers. Tinkering with battlemechs gives way more build options that Omnis can only dream.

Arkhangel, on 12 July 2018 - 03:24 AM, said:

in fairness, Clan stuff is lighter and smaller than IS stuff. problem is if you guys go ballistics, you're invariably either going big-ticket ballistics, or a crapton of small ones.

This.
Omnis ARE largely incapable of running mixed builds due to tonnage and slots.And if you grab a big ballistic, its gonna be an LBX20 or Gauss to go easy on the heatgen as you now lack room for heatsinks to cool your back up lasers.Why not go for an C-UAC20 you wonder?Perhaps cause its 4 pellets salvo reduces it to a joke unless the opponent is facetanking you,granting its not already jammed due to the game registering multiple clicks due to the ping

If PGI wants diversified builds,pull clan autocannons and any other nerfed to death weapon from the dumpster and bring it back to usefullness first so we have actual options
There can't be diversity if you have no options worth/capable of using

Edited by Serenna187, 12 July 2018 - 10:22 AM.

[Napoleon_Blownapart]

the supply crate in the 6.95 MC pack gave 400 mc last time and may be a better deal then when +30%mc which is 375.

[Pihoqahiak]

Pain G0D, on 12 July 2018 - 05:02 AM, said:

Robotech ? Well i had a robotech colouring in book as a kiddy and Battlemaster is definatly in there , possibly the armoured valkyrie ?

The Battlemaster design is not from Robotech at all. The Crusader might be more of what you are thinking of, it was the Armored Veritech (Valkyrie).

Edit: That also means that we are likely not going to see the Crusader until the lawsuit with Harmony Gold is over, and then only if PGI wins it to the extent that they are free to use the Robotech and other Unseen designs with no fear of legal fallout from doing so.

Edited by Pihoqahiak, 12 July 2018 - 01:19 PM.

[Odanan]

Pihoqahiak, on 12 July 2018 - 01:16 PM, said:

The Battlemaster design is not from Robotech at all. The Crusader might be more of what you are thinking of, it was the Armored Veritech (Valkyrie).

Edit: That also means that we are likely not going to see the Crusader until the lawsuit with Harmony Gold is over, and then only if PGI wins it to the extent that they are free to use the Robotech and other Unseen designs with no fear of legal fallout from doing so.

The lawsuit is over, but we don't know the terms of the agreement.
(we do know PGI can continue to use the "Classics", but we don't know if they can release more of them)

[Arkhangel]

Odanan, on 12 July 2018 - 01:41 PM, said:

The lawsuit is over, but we don't know the terms of the agreement.
(we do know PGI can continue to use the "Classics", but we don't know if they can release more of them)

according to what i saw, they're allowed to do the Unseen as long as it's their own proprietary designs. course, this'll all be moot in 2021 anyways, when HG loses the rights to Macross stuff anyways. course, they only ever had the actual rights to the Robotech STORY not the mecha, not that that's stopped them from trying to sue over the years.

[D V Devnull]

Just a side-note... Got myself some Mech Bays, and a Camo Pattern for one of my Mech Chassis.

However, I haven't managed to build up enough (C-Bills) at current for any of the Mechs which I want to purchase from this Sale. I probably won't have enough in time to purchase either.

Unfortunately, that's the end of my story... I'm leaving MWO not because of PGI, but because of their Community. It has hit the point where I've burned out for the last time due to people with a 'One Man Army' mentality put on Teams by a poor MatchMaker. They won't learn, I get abused, and therefore I'm just not taking it anymore.

~Mr. D. V. "I'll be very surprised if I ever touch MWO again... blame yourselves, Community... it's NOT PGI's fault." Devnull

[Clint Taurus]

If Clan is so devastating and it's unfair to IS blah blah, why not buff IS a bit instead?

Like, reduce the slot count of some ballistic weapons, or give them further armor/structure buffs. Boost their Tcomps to be as good as Clan's.

There are ways to make some mechs perform better, instead of nerfing good performing mechs to parity with the crap mechs. Not all mechs are created equally, and I don't think the game should be trying to equalize their performance.

[Clint Taurus]

Quote

It has hit the point where I've burned out for the last time due to people with a 'One Man Army' mentality put on Teams by a poor MatchMaker. They won't learn, I get abused, and therefore I'm just not taking it anymore.

Yes, that is very annoying. Seems like every match has multiple AFKs/DCs, and at least a lance worth of 'teammates' who do anything but play as a team, which of course is fairly vital to having any chance of winning in this game consistently, and enjoying yourself for more than 4-5 stomps before you're thinking, "ok this sucks. No matter how good or bad I do, my gaming experience is totally dictated by these clowns around me."

It wasn't like this even a few months ago.

Edited by Clint Taurus, 12 July 2018 - 08:08 PM.