64 replies to this topic

[razenWing]

Saw a few threads recently discussing how people's shots were "blocked" and thus, ruined. Also saw a well respected youtube posting similar sentiment in one of his playthrough.

Here's my take.

Get over yourself. Honestly, there are no "best position." Everyone is fighting for a position, especially on tight corridors for that doesn't allow a lot of maneuvering. See, you by yourself is not the greatest shot nor have an eternal priority to the best lane (and it's debatable whether the lane you take is "best" anyways)

And if you really feel like you are being "blocked?" Two solutions...

1: Fight your way to the front. The fact that you are being "blocked" by his backside means your butt is sitting in the back using others as armor. Ironic how a more cowardly player is calling out someone else for being reckless.
2: Reposition. You are not required to stand in this one spot because you have done so in 500 matches. There is no "shotgun" to positioning. You can sit in the backseat, trunk, or roof if you want. You can't call permanent passenger just because...

Honestly, it's like the whole sentiment smells of arrogance to me. Look, I understand sometimes that during an actual push, yes, blocking is VERY annoying. (Yea, we all know the one guy that blocks everyone on the ramp and stall the push of 4 assaults behind him) But if you are in the trading phase, your "positioning" is no more valid than his. You are just mad because he got to a better spot than you.

To me, saying things like someone is blocking you during skirmish is like being extremely selfish. O he's in front of you, so hes supposed to stand still so that you can shoot next to him? What arrogance. Why should he be your free armor while you hide in the back? Get your own position, get out in the open, share some armor, and quit crying about people "blocking" your shots that somehow in your mind, is the one shot that will turn the game around.

(cause in 9/10, your 50% laser burn 75 point alpha that's further discounted from being out of range isn't going to turn the game around. relax, get to a new spot, and let other people play their own games)
-----------

Flame wave expected. Bring it on!

Edited by razenWing, 12 July 2018 - 10:45 PM.

[Eisenhorne]

Having a useless terribad player sitting in the middle of a fire lane, blocking all your shots, is definitely an annoying thing, and happens all too commonly in quick play. If everyone spread out and got their own fire lanes, this wouldn't be an issue.

[Vellron2005]

Oh look, another problem Lurmers don't have ;-)

[Savage Wolf]

Eisenhorne, on 12 July 2018 - 10:51 PM, said:

Having a useless terribad player sitting in the middle of a fire lane, blocking all your shots, is definitely an annoying thing, and happens all too commonly in quick play. If everyone spread out and got their own fire lanes, this wouldn't be an issue.

Well there you have the solution then. The terribad player aka the blocked player, not the blocking one, finds a new firing lane, not demand ownership of one that the front line has. If you are in the back, it's your responsibility to position yourself according to the meatshields. They are doing their job, now you do yours.

[Eisenhorne]

Savage Wolf, on 12 July 2018 - 10:55 PM, said:

Well there you have the solution then. The terribad player aka the blocked player, not the blocking one, finds a new firing lane, not demand ownership of one that the front line has. If you are in the back, it's your responsibility to position yourself according to the meatshields. They are doing their job, now you do yours.

Nah, the blocked player just tries his best to avoid hitting the other guy in the back, while telling him to move. Usually I can shoot around the terribads, its not that big a deal. Just a bit annoying.

[WrathOfDeadguy]

If I'm thinking of the same video- and I might not be, and that's fine- the blocking player was driving a Dragon back and forth across one of the central ramps on Collective, in such a way as to not only block shots but also to prevent any friendlies from using the ramp to push or even peek. After doing that, they advanced on another enemy straight across an assault's line of fire when the other half of the ramp was wide open, and they definitely had the mobility to clear the lane and the space to take a different angle, while the decidedly less mobile Stalker behind could not do so in time to make a difference. That is bad play. You should always try to be mindful of where other players are, and especially in heavies and assaults (which, being larger and slower, block more of the lane and are slower to react and clear it) you should try to avoid hogging too much space at corners and choke points so that the rest of your team can contribute. Otherwise, all you're doing is giving the enemy team effective numerical superiority, because you're the only one exposed.

Good positioning skills and situational awareness benefit your team as much as yourself. They can move up, share their armor, and put more guns on the enemy, which makes you more likely to win (and survive) your trades.

[Spheroid]

Blocking shots is not in your own or your team's self interest. The more firepower that reaches an enemy the quicker he dies. A good and quick stomp is the sign of an effective battle.

[Savage Wolf]

Eisenhorne, on 12 July 2018 - 10:59 PM, said:

Nah, the blocked player just tries his best to avoid hitting the other guy in the back, while telling him to move. Usually I can shoot around the terribads, its not that big a deal. Just a bit annoying.

No, the blocked player finds a new firing line. He moves. Why would the guy on the frontline, the guy most at risk have to move instead of the guy in the back who can see both his ally and the enemy?

[Spheroid]

@Salvage Wolf: Simple geometry. At range a tremendous lateral distance must be traversed to achieve a noticeable difference in firing solution while the guy face hugging only needs to shift a few meters. The task is functionally much simpler.

[Eisenhorne]

Savage Wolf, on 12 July 2018 - 11:05 PM, said:

No, the blocked player finds a new firing line. He moves. Why would the guy on the frontline, the guy most at risk have to move instead of the guy in the back who can see both his ally and the enemy?

Because he is being a terrible player who is blocking his team from helping him? I'll shoot around him, and hopefully not hit him. If I do hit him in the back, well then, nothing of worth was lost now, was it? It's not like he'll last long anyway, if he's just standing in front of the enemy in the open he'll be dead soon enough anyway.

[Savage Wolf]

Spheroid, on 12 July 2018 - 11:11 PM, said:

@Salvage Wolf: Simple geometry. At range a tremendous lateral distance must be traversed to achieve a noticeable difference in firing solution while the guy face hugging only needs to shift a few meters. The task is functionally much simpler.

Except the guy in the back has all the information required to make the adjustment and his the required efforts are not significantly higher than that of the guy on the frontline.

The guy on the front however needs a rear view mirror, which we don't have, and so must look back at his ally and expose his back to the enemy in order to gain the required information to make his adjustment and meanwhile loses sight of the enemy.

If the guy in front needs to move, he stops firing, is vulnerable and has less information to work with. Meanwhile the guy in the back has to move a little further.

[Savage Wolf]

Eisenhorne, on 12 July 2018 - 11:12 PM, said:

Because he is being a terrible player who is blocking his team from helping him? I'll shoot around him, and hopefully not hit him. If I do hit him in the back, well then, nothing of worth was lost now, was it? It's not like he'll last long anyway, if he's just standing in front of the enemy in the open he'll be dead soon enough anyway.

The guy in the front is sharing his armor to you and you want to reward that with friendly fire instead of taking advantage of the sitation and firing at the enemy while they are shooting elsewhere. Tell me again who is the terrible team player.

[Eisenhorne]

Savage Wolf, on 12 July 2018 - 11:20 PM, said:

The guy in the front is sharing his armor to you and you want to reward that with friendly fire instead of taking advantage of the sitation and firing at the enemy while they are shooting elsewhere. Tell me again who is the terrible team player.

Sharing armor doesn't mean what you think it means. It doesn't mean stand in the open and die. It means be a target and get shot at while minimizing incoming damage. The best way to share armor is to fire at an enemy from cover. So when he shoots back at you you can hopefully get back into cover fast enough some of his shots impact on cover.

The newb screaming "push" and yolo soloing into the enemy while he blocks shots is actively hurting his team, and should learn to play. Getting cut down before doing 100 damage and blocking your teams shots at the same time is all too common, and is quite annoying.

[Savage Wolf]

Eisenhorne, on 12 July 2018 - 11:28 PM, said:

Sharing armor doesn't mean what you think it means. It doesn't mean stand in the open and die. It means be a target and get shot at while minimizing incoming damage. The best way to share armor is to fire at an enemy from cover. So when he shoots back at you you can hopefully get back into cover fast enough some of his shots impact on cover.

The newb screaming "push" and yolo soloing into the enemy while he blocks shots is actively hurting his team, and should learn to play. Getting cut down before doing 100 damage and blocking your teams shots at the same time is all too common, and is quite annoying.

From the very beginning this thread was about sharing the same cover or cover parallel to eachother, so the fact that you need to invent that the player in front is standing in the open shows how little you have to go on.

Now please stay on topic and make some arguments that are within the context of the discussion. We are not talking about making pushes or yolo'ing, that's a different topic. We are talking about firing lines and how to set them up. Even firing lines have a front line. And if you are getting blocked by an ally, you are not there, you are in second line.

[Bohxim]

Savage Wolf, on 12 July 2018 - 11:17 PM, said:

Except the guy in the back has all the information required to make the adjustment and his the required efforts are not significantly higher than that of the guy on the frontline.

The guy on the front however needs a rear view mirror, which we don't have, and so must look back at his ally and expose his back to the enemy in order to gain the required information to make his adjustment and meanwhile loses sight of the enemy.

If the guy in front needs to move, he stops firing, is vulnerable and has less information to work with. Meanwhile the guy in the back has to move a little further.

Just felt that sometimes he has ample warning. With 3 to 4nmechs putting out a stream of ballistic shells and laser fire, there's ample signs there's a fire fight there. Often that's the case, it's called a firing line. Of course if it's just 1 guy shooting, both aren't doing their job exactly right ( first guy presenting a lone target to enemy forces and 2nd guy doing exact same thing + blocking potential dmg to enemy.)
If leapfrogging, fine, it's benefitial to both as they take turns taking fire and gaining ground while not blocking each other's shots.
But in fairness, one should alr see the firefight before peeking out if someone is accusing someone of blocking. Besides, just use comms to shout out that you're crossing or use command wheel to say sorry before darting out. Saves both sides the trouble and salt

[Savage Wolf]

Yes, there is a lot of circumstance involved and watching a stream of fire can indicate your allies' firing lines. But it's not optimal or foolproof. Your focus is usually on the enemy, so usually you see those laser lines from a rather skewed angle which can be hard to figure out exactly where they come from.

There are also situations where the people in front needs to be there to do their job and you in the back could have any other position and still be shooting while the ones in front cannot. And other times vice versa. It's circumstantial.

But my point still is, the guy in second lines has much better odds of repositioning than the guy in front. So if you do your team play right, it's preferable that the second lines repositions alot than the front. Which is of course a gamble in solo-Q.

[justcallme A S H]

Vellron2005, on 12 July 2018 - 10:54 PM, said:

Oh look, another problem Lurmers don't have ;-)

You think?

I've been LRM'd in the back by allies a ridiculously high amount.

All because they are walking about with Advanced Zoom engaged to make sure all of those LRMs hit the target.

[Savage Wolf]

justcallme A S H, on 12 July 2018 - 11:55 PM, said:

You think?

I've been LRM'd in the back by allies a ridiculously high amount.

All because they are walking about with Advanced Zoom engaged to make sure all of those LRMs hit the target.

Even if they are clan lurms they would hardly deal you any damage at that range, though that's still sloppy lurming.

Also, why would lurmers use advanced zoom? It gives no advantage to lurms at all.

[MTier Slayed Up]

My idea of blocking a shot are people who feel the need to run in front of your mid vomit to shoot at what you're shooting at...or about to finish off. There are other folks that I can't stand when I'm in the front, pushing the tunnel on Crimson or something like that, and I get this goofball who will hard turn left into me and just make it to where I can't return fire, but at least with a somewhat added benefit that I have a temporary derp shield.

Another gripe is if someone is pushing a narrow passage...and they suddenly stop or they start reversing during a push. I mean, there's getting into position, and then there's like a hard push...The latter is "oh I took damagez, I didn't sign up for this!" and they're trying to fall back as if the virtual pilot is pivoting the camera towards himself, talking to the player like "I got a wife and kids homie, turn this bad boy around mayne!"
Players like "I gotchu fam, watch this" and they try some stupid matrix crap by running in front of everyone's fire, only to spill their half opened sippy cup all over the keyboard, and the keyboard short circuits, causing the mech to face plant against the wall and get blown to smithereens by pew pew's.
"I failed you Eddie. I'll tell your family you loved him. "

Nothing, and I mean nothing irks me more, is when I get to a piece of cover, and I am trading against one or two people, trying to whittle something down, only to be ghosted by a teammate light pilot, for whatever reason, decided that the best place to be at that moment, is behind my leg mid trade, making sure I'll die or lose half my mech because he needed that piece of the pie.
That or it is was Uhtred Pagan and his sick hugging fetish.

Edited by DrtyDshSoap, 13 July 2018 - 12:22 AM.

[Wil McCullough]

Presenting the simplest, elegantest, goodest solution:

The echelon