31 replies to this topic

[Asmerak]

Change Heavy Gauss instead. Buff Heavy Gauss mildly so it's more worth taking a single one, then disable charging two at once. 50 PPFLD, for basically no heat, is the problem.

[Serenna187]

The armor reduction puts those assaults into an even worse spot than they already are,they are always high priority targets and get dismantled in moments to begin with,now they die even faster..?Too fat to run and now even less tanky

[Jackal Noble]

Fire one Hgauss at a time, 0 recoil but it stops/decelerates the mech.
This allows the firing of secondary weapons

[BROARL]

if the point is to make all mechs equal you could start with piranha...
don't know a single assault that can take it on.

[Devastator MK II]

I agree this topic. IS mech quirks nerf is insane

Why nerf this IS mechs?? Knowing that technology gap is big between IS Tech and Clan Tech, why do you want to downgrade rather than upward? This is really crazy.

If you really want to downgrade, enable all Clan Tech Equipments(Weapon, engenes, structures, armors, heat sinks, etc all equipments) for IS Mech. Then you can nerf as you like.

Edited by Devastator MK II, 29 July 2018 - 02:21 AM.

[SmokedJag]

Annihilator should be nerfed. It's a gun platform with much better hitboxes than the Clans' lumbering gun platform.

[Dee Eight]

SmokedJag, on 29 July 2018 - 04:35 AM, said:

Annihilator should be nerfed. It's a gun platform with much better hitboxes than the Clans' lumbering gun platform.

Clearly you've never tried to duel the 8 AC2/LB2 DWF-UV with an Annihilator 2A (which has already received the greatest armor nerfing on the live servers). The ROF for the guns is essentially identical, but the DWF is putting out 33% more damage... and that's enough to overcome the armor quirk on the Annihlator pretty quickly. The clans have more lumbering gun platforms than JUST the kodiak 3 with its four hardpoints you know. The c-bills available DWF's can have six ballistic mounts, for autocannons which weigh less and are smaller than IS equivalents. The blood asp can be configured with up to 5 ballistic mounts.

[SmokedJag]

Dee Eight, on 29 July 2018 - 06:39 AM, said:

Clearly you've never tried to duel the 8 AC2/LB2 DWF-UV with an Annihilator 2A (which has already received the greatest armor nerfing on the live servers). The ROF for the guns is essentially identical, but the DWF is putting out 33% more damage... and that's enough to overcome the armor quirk on the Annihlator pretty quickly. The clans have more lumbering gun platforms than JUST the kodiak 3 with its four hardpoints you know. The c-bills available DWF's can have six ballistic mounts, for autocannons which weigh less and are smaller than IS equivalents. The blood asp can be configured with up to 5 ballistic mounts.

I have a Dire UV. There's a reason the Annihilator 2A still holds a monopoly in Division 1 despite more guns fitting on the Dire. Compare the torso hitboxes:


https://mwomercs.com...x-localization/

Not only is the Annihilator CT much slimmer, it's way harder to isolate on either it or one of the side torsos. Most of that beer gut and Godzilla neck? Not actually CT.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Devastator MK II, on 29 July 2018 - 02:03 AM, said:

I agree this topic. IS mech quirks nerf is insane

Why nerf this IS mechs?? Knowing that technology gap is big between IS Tech and Clan Tech, why do you want to downgrade rather than upward? This is really crazy.

If you really want to downgrade, enable all Clan Tech Equipments(Weapon, engenes, structures, armors, heat sinks, etc all equipments) for IS Mech. Then you can nerf as you like.

Balance gap between IS and Clan is not large at this point in time. It is misleading to suggest that it is.

[Y E O N N E]

SmokedJag, on 29 July 2018 - 07:46 AM, said:

Not only is the Annihilator CT much slimmer, it's way harder to isolate on either it or one of the side torsos. Most of that beer gut and Godzilla neck? Not actually CT.

Shoot the neck.

Also: Solaris balance and QP/FP balance are fundamentally incompatible. Wuth so few people playing Solaris, balancing for it is foolish. Let the OP-for-Solaris 'Mechs hang out in D1...that is the entire reason divisions exist in the first place.

Jack Shayu Walker, on 29 July 2018 - 08:13 AM, said:

Balance gap between IS and Clan is not large at this point in time. It is misleading to suggest that it is.

It's not large...because of the quirks. All of the IS 'Mechs competitive with their Clan counterparts have non-trivial quirks. These durability nerfs are just PGI making the same classic mistake they always do: when they think something needs adjusting, they always adjust the other side of the equation in such a way that the intended adjustment is rendered superfluous.

[SmokedJag]

Yeonne Greene, on 29 July 2018 - 01:50 PM, said:

Shoot the neck.

The neck has the same ratio as the gut. Most of it isn't CT. See the Mean Baby missile pods if you don't believe the hitbox chart. Mean Baby's missile pods are all in the STs.

Quote

Also: Solaris balance and QP/FP balance are fundamentally incompatible. Wuth so few people playing Solaris, balancing for it is foolish. Let the OP-for-Solaris 'Mechs hang out in D1...that is the entire reason divisions exist in the first place.

Poster was asserting that

Quote

Clearly you've never tried to duel the 8 AC2/LB2 DWF-UV with an Annihilator 2A (which has already received the greatest armor nerfing on the live servers). The ROF for the guns is essentially identical, but the DWF is putting out 33% more damage... and that's enough to overcome the armor quirk on the Annihlator pretty quickly.

Solaris is about the purest way of showing that that is complete nonsense.

[Dee Eight]

SmokedJag, on 29 July 2018 - 02:44 PM, said:

The neck has the same ratio as the gut. Most of it isn't CT. See the Mean Baby missile pods if you don't believe the hitbox chart. Mean Baby's missile pods are all in the STs.

I just cannot take the evaluations of someone with less than 500 QP matches in the year since the Annihilator was released all that seriously. Especially not when they haven't even played the current solaris season in division1 at all, where the DWF-UV and the ANH2A can be found facing one another.

[VorpalMechBunny]

Asmerak, on 28 July 2018 - 11:15 AM, said:

Change Heavy Gauss instead. Buff Heavy Gauss mildly so it's more worth taking a single one, then disable charging two at once. 50 PPFLD, for basically no heat, is the problem.

Yeah I would agree with that. I posted here in regards to the Fafnir because it feel the squishiest when playing but in general you are right, the problem is more heavy gauss that mechs. Nerfing individual mechs to compensate will only effectively penalize any _other_ loadout that could be run on those mechs, but I'm not seeing complaints about 2xLBX20 IS assaults...

In addition to single charge, one possibility would be a significant heat penalty after 1, so the guns themselves will stay about the same but firing them with several medium lasers will not be maintainable.

[Abaddun]

This is less about IS VS Clan balance and more about internal IS balance. Think about it, PGI are hitting all of the meta ballistic boats that are, quite frankly, invalidating all other IS assaults that are not LRM boats.

[Abaddun]

This isn't just about duel HGR. That build already has it's sacrifices. There are far more troublesome ballistic builds like the quad ultra Ac5 sleipnir builds.

[SmokedJag]

Abaddun, on 30 July 2018 - 08:02 AM, said:

This is less about IS VS Clan balance and more about internal IS balance. Think about it, PGI are hitting all of the meta ballistic boats that are, quite frankly, invalidating all other IS assaults that are not LRM boats.

The Annihilator and Sleipnir are also plain overpowered. Dire Whale v. Annihilator isn't just about that it is a large faction disparity in a 1v1 fight. It's that the Annihilator is quirked to be dramatically harder to kill despite already being harder to kill.and Sleipnir is in the bad position of being a very strong pay 'Mech. It also shouldn't have gratuitous quirks.

[Abaddun]

SmokedJag, on 30 July 2018 - 09:09 AM, said:

The Annihilator and Sleipnir are also plain overpowered. Dire Whale v. Annihilator isn't just about that it is a large faction disparity in a 1v1 fight. It's that the Annihilator is quirked to be dramatically harder to kill despite already being harder to kill.and Sleipnir is in the bad position of being a very strong pay 'Mech. It also shouldn't have gratuitous quirks.

The DWF vs Annihilator conundrum is a representation of the duel role of 100 ton fire support mech; suppressor VS anchor. The DWF indisputably fills the role of a suppressor. No other mech can boat ballistics like it. Once upon a time all you saw were quad/Penta ultra AC5 DWFs in QP. If the Annihilator wasn't quirked for durability, the DWF would be the better mech in almost every way. It just so happens that in the current meta, we have a higher need of ballistic boating anchors then we do ballistic boating suppressors.

[PobbestGob]

Abaddun, on 30 July 2018 - 10:33 AM, said:

The DWF vs Annihilator conundrum is a representation of the duel role of 100 ton fire support mech; suppressor VS anchor. The DWF indisputably fills the role of a suppressor. No other mech can boat ballistics like it. Once upon a time all you saw were quad/Penta ultra AC5 DWFs in QP. If the Annihilator wasn't quirked for durability, the DWF would be the better mech in almost every way. It just so happens that in the current meta, we have a higher need of ballistic boating anchors then we do ballistic boating suppressors.

The direwolf also has horrible hitboxes, a locked engine, and fixed slots. In terms of firepower the dire certainly wins, but the anni comes close and it gets the great quirks, hitboxes, and options that more than make up the losses. Even without quirks the anni wins on durability, dire is a brick.

[HammerMaster]

Baffling.

[Xetelian]

Please don't nerf IS armor/structure.