31 replies to this topic

[razenWing]

Honestly, if PGI refuse to make every mech unique by individualizing stats/components, then I think at least giving the players different experiences driving different mechs is fair. We are not just playing Barbie with these different skins.

I think a good place to start fresh is with the Vapor Eagle. Having no visual cockpit, this could be the first Gundam-esque piloting style where the pilot is not in the head, but somewhere in the chest.

This is significant because it allows the cockpit to be experimented with the game's first Augmented Reality cockpit. Basically, this is the newest tech in Clan arsenal, thus as such, with cockpit being completed shielded, the pilot doesn't rely on a physical window, but a camera view mounted across the body to create a 3D augmented virtual reality view.

For the first time, you are playing FPS without those annoying bars. You are basically looking out onto boundless view, providing the best out of cockpit views of any battlemechs in existence.

HOWEVER, with amazing view construction also comes with trade-offs. Because cameras are mounted throughout the body, so as you take damages, your cameras start to get knocked off. At 80% body damage, maybe a 10% screen obscurity. This goes on and on until 1% (I don't know how you can do 1%, but just bear with me) where it's near impossible with see with constant screen cracks, flickers, and visual discrepancies.

How cool is that concept? Come on PGI. New gen mech, fresh idea, let's make Vapor Eagle great to drive!

[Tetatae Squawkins]

It sounds cool in theory but I would never want to play that mech.

[Verilligo]

The amount of coding required for this one specific mech in order to have battlefield displays like you envision would be astronomical... and likely impossible with Cryengine, which can't even handle giving the player a rear view mirror. Also the Vapor Eagle isn't a new gen mech, it's a fairly old design. It wasn't seen by the IS until 3055, but Sarna puts the production date at 2863. And what do you mean, no visual cockpit? Do you not see all the cockpit glass in the head?

[razenWing]

Verilligo, on 03 August 2018 - 05:24 AM, said:

The amount of coding required for this one specific mech in order to have battlefield displays like you envision would be astronomical... and likely impossible with Cryengine, which can't even handle giving the player a rear view mirror. Also the Vapor Eagle isn't a new gen mech, it's a fairly old design. It wasn't seen by the IS until 3055, but Sarna puts the production date at 2863. And what do you mean, no visual cockpit? Do you not see all the cockpit glass in the head?

Gundam has a "head" with "eyes" too, but the pilot is no where near those obvious facial features.

[Mystere]

razenWing, on 03 August 2018 - 04:18 AM, said:

Honestly, if PGI refuse to make every mech unique by individualizing stats/components, then I think at least giving the players different experiences driving different mechs is fair. We are not just playing Barbie with these different skins.

We're not?

[B0oN]

Mystere, on 03 August 2018 - 07:18 AM, said:

We're not?

#crestfallen

[Adridos]

Verilligo, on 03 August 2018 - 05:24 AM, said:

The amount of coding required for this one specific mech in order to have battlefield displays like you envision would be astronomical... and likely impossible with Cryengine, which can't even handle giving the player a rear view mirror.

It's literally just a standard FPS HUD view. Like the default camera in MW4, except you can look wherever. Add in a little more HUD to not be cheap and voila, done. In-cockpit views are prettier, though. Even Gundam games leave the cockpit in and simply spread the cameras where you'd have windows in MW.

Plus, the rear view / separate camera / mirror thing is true for all modern engines, since they all use deferred rendering pipelines. Cry Engine, Unreal Engine, Unity or Frostbite. None of them can make these things without severely impacting performance. Hence the lack of mirrors in modern games.

[JediPanther]

Having the cockpit in the ct would suck huge. CT is where most people aim as even if you miss you'll still hit some part of the enemy. One good ac 20 hit can do a head shot. It's rare but I've done it once with the hbk-4g. If anything to make the cockpits different pgi should keep the ww1-ww2 old war inspired designs for IS and futuristic blade runner type designs for clans. Cyclops gets my vote for most retro cockpit as it reminds me so much of the awesome lucas arts x-wing and tie fighter series. Urbie for the most entertaining cockpit.

[AncientRaig]

CT mounted cockpits are a thing in BT. It's a lot more cramped than a head mounted cockpit, and the pilot is a lot more vulnerable to taking damage from mech overheating, as well as being blinded. The Vapor Eagle doesn't have on though, so placing one there wouldn't really work.

[Jackal Noble]

No. You lost me at Gundam.

[Verilligo]

Adridos, on 03 August 2018 - 07:25 AM, said:

It's literally just a standard FPS HUD view. Like the default camera in MW4, except you can look wherever. Add in a little more HUD to not be cheap and voila, done. In-cockpit views are prettier, though. Even Gundam games leave the cockpit in and simply spread the cameras where you'd have windows in MW.

Plus, the rear view / separate camera / mirror thing is true for all modern engines, since they all use deferred rendering pipelines. Cry Engine, Unreal Engine, Unity or Frostbite. None of them can make these things without severely impacting performance. Hence the lack of mirrors in modern games.

The setup is a standard HUD, yes. The progressive loss of visual information directly tied with location-specific damage taken, however, is not. That was my primary source of concern with regards to the design in terms of extra coding. Your comment on rear views is true, though, after doing some additional reading. To elaborate, what I read in the past claimed that doing so was actually impossible for Cryengine, not just that it was incredibly taxing on performance. Whether that's true or not would require a little more digging to confirm.

[razenWing]

Verilligo, on 03 August 2018 - 09:47 AM, said:

The setup is a standard HUD, yes. The progressive loss of visual information directly tied with location-specific damage taken, however, is not. That was my primary source of concern with regards to the design in terms of extra coding. Your comment on rear views is true, though, after doing some additional reading. To elaborate, what I read in the past claimed that doing so was actually impossible for Cryengine, not just that it was incredibly taxing on performance. Whether that's true or not would require a little more digging to confirm.

You know where I got the idea from?

Mechwarrior THREE.

Well, I guess I am not upset at all how a 2014 game can't do what a 1998 game can do.

[Toothless]

"I want PGI to devote time and effort into a feature of MWO that is mildly hard to do and doesnt generate cash revenue."

[razenWing]

Toothless, on 03 August 2018 - 12:52 PM, said:

"I want PGI to devote time and effort into a feature of MWO that is mildly hard to do and doesnt generate cash revenue."

You serious? A mech that actually pilot different from any other mech already existence is NOT a cash draw?

???? Less meme, more business sense.

[Athom83]

razenWing, on 03 August 2018 - 04:18 AM, said:

I think a good place to start fresh is with the Vapor Eagle. Having no visual cockpit, this could be the first Gundam-esque piloting style where the pilot is not in the head, but somewhere in the chest.

Then what's that giant, round, glass looking thing in the middle of the head if not a cockpit?

razenWing, on 03 August 2018 - 04:18 AM, said:

~snip~

Eh... interesting idea, but not one that would fit into the curent setting of MWO. I mean, it would definitely work if they ever wanted to start adding the drone mechs. However, as current its not such a good route to take.

razenWing, on 03 August 2018 - 12:48 PM, said:

You know where I got the idea from?
Mechwarrior THREE.
Well, I guess I am not upset at all how a 2014 game can't do what a 1998 game can do.

Again, its more because of the limitations of the engine than anything else. Cryengine is pretty crap at the things PGI are trying to do with it, and even the current hud is jury rigged java coding running alongside the game. It would definately be possible for them to do in MW5 because they are using an actual game engine that isn't completely terrible to work with in anything other than what it was explicitly designed to do.

AncientRaig, on 03 August 2018 - 08:35 AM, said:

CT mounted cockpits are a thing in BT. It's a lot more cramped than a head mounted cockpit, and the pilot is a lot more vulnerable to taking damage from mech overheating, as well as being blinded.

Gotterdammerung for LIFE!

Spoiler

[LT. HARDCASE]

The Vapor Eagle cockpit is in the head so I have so idea why this idea popped into your mind.

[Nightbird]

There was an episode of Gundam (the Origin series?) that was on the development of the mobile suit. It showed that the initial prototypes had pilots in cockpits on the front of the mech, and showed how dumb that was. That was a finger in the eye of BT lol

[Ghogiel]

Verilligo, on 03 August 2018 - 09:47 AM, said:

The setup is a standard HUD, yes. The progressive loss of visual information directly tied with location-specific damage taken, however, is not. That was my primary source of concern with regards to the design in terms of extra coding. Your comment on rear views is true, though, after doing some additional reading. To elaborate, what I read in the past claimed that doing so was actually impossible for Cryengine, not just that it was incredibly taxing on performance. Whether that's true or not would require a little more digging to confirm.

It's always been possible in CE but a rendertexture feature was not natively in the code in CE3-ish afaik. Which would take one of the enginieers to make it. It's pretty straightforward. The idea is you basically use a camera to render texture at runtime and output that to an object, ie a flat plane that could be a mirror or security camera display.

Edited by Ghogiel, 03 August 2018 - 02:56 PM.

[Chados]

razenWing, on 03 August 2018 - 04:18 AM, said:

....this could be the first Gundam-esque piloting style where the pilot is not in the head, but somewhere in the chest.

Like the Jägermech.

[InspectorG]

B0oN, on 03 August 2018 - 07:24 AM, said:

#crestfallen

#crestfallenBlackKnight