28 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

The6thMessenger, on 08 August 2018 - 03:31 PM, said:

No, actually with that statement i don't trust you anymore. Targetting is part of information warfare, making people peek just to find anyone isn't conducive to team play.

So a missile finding its target shared by someone else's sensors is "bad", but a peeker-poker finding that same target shared by that same someone else's sensors is "ok"? They're exactly the same "target" (i.e. data).

Why the double standard?

I say remove automatic target sharing by IS Units and instead have C3 and C3i networks. If people want to share targets, they're going to have to spend the required tons and slots for the equipment.

Clans cannot share targets.

Adjust all drops as may be required (i.e. forced IS vs. IS, Clan vs. Clan, IS. vs Clan) based on player availability.

Edited by Mystere, 09 August 2018 - 01:09 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

Mystere, on 09 August 2018 - 01:09 PM, said:

So a missile finding its target shared by someone else's sensors is "bad", but a peeker-poker finding that same target shared by that same someone else's sensors is "ok"? They're exactly the same "target" (i.e. data).

Why the double standard?

Because of the result? Poker just need the info on where they ought to dump their vomit. LRMs need constant guidance.

There's helping people, and then there's bending over backwards to get ****** in the ***.

Mystere, on 09 August 2018 - 01:09 PM, said:

I say remove automatic target sharing by IS Units and instead have C3 and C3i networks. If people want to share targets, they're going to have to spend the required tons and slots for the equipment.

Clans cannot share targets.

Adjust all drops as may be required (i.e. forced IS vs. IS, Clan vs. Clan, IS. vs Clan) based on player availability.

I say no.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Mystere, on 09 August 2018 - 01:09 PM, said:

So a missile finding its target shared by someone else's sensors is "bad", but a peeker-poker finding that same target shared by that same someone else's sensors is "ok"? They're exactly the same "target" (i.e. data).

A poke mech has to expose itself which means it can be countered a bit, or there is some availability for reprisal, indirect fire weapons don't offer that. That's the sole reason indirect fire especially mass indirect fire is probably the worst thing to conduce fun on both sides. Good counter-play makes games more fun for both sides and LRMs typically don't have good counter play. There is just so many stupid situational things surrounding LRMs (whether it be LRMs themselves, their support staff like TAG/NARC, or their hard counters like ECM and cover) that make them unfun to use half the time, and when they do work, they are often unfun to play against. That wreaks of bad game mechanics and its been one of the reasons so many people have clamored for changes to their mechanics (streaks being really only useful on lights being another reason for lock-on mechanic change requests).

In fact, I'd be willing to bet that a majority of players would hate dying to mass LRMs than mass direct fire because at least with mass direct fire you have some chance to shoot back unlike being narc'd on Polar which is practically a death sentence in most situations.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 09 August 2018 - 04:09 PM.

[Mystere]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 09 August 2018 - 04:08 PM, said:

A poke mech has to expose itself which means it can be countered a bit, or there is some availability for reprisal, indirect fire weapons don't offer that. That's the sole reason indirect fire especially mass indirect fire is probably the worst thing to conduce fun on both sides. Good counter-play makes games more fun for both sides and LRMs typically don't have good counter play. There is just so many stupid situational things surrounding LRMs (whether it be LRMs themselves, their support staff like TAG/NARC, or their hard counters like ECM and cover) that make them unfun to use half the time, and when they do work, they are often unfun to play against. That wreaks of bad game mechanics and its been one of the reasons so many people have clamored for changes to their mechanics (streaks being really only useful on lights being another reason for lock-on mechanic change requests).

In fact, I'd be willing to bet that a majority of players would hate dying to mass LRMs than mass direct fire because at least with mass direct fire you have some chance to shoot back unlike being narc'd on Polar which is practically a death sentence in most situations.

I may be an extremely rare snowflake, because I have no problem being shot by something I cannot see. I just treat it as the onus being on me to find the offender and stick a knife into its gut as sweet sweet revenge served cold.

[Weeny Machine]

Mystere, on 09 August 2018 - 06:34 PM, said:

I may be an extremely rare snowflake, because I have no problem being shot by something I cannot see. I just treat it as the onus being on me to find the offender and stick a knife into its gut as sweet sweet revenge served cold.

The problem with mid-/long-range lock weapons is that they counter brawlers and light mechs which have mostly short range builds. When someone plays dumb and is out of position he can get support even from about 1000m away with a lot of obstacles between.

Being a light, even a Wolfhound, you do not want to be hit by a LRM 80 barrage from a hurp durp assault lrm boat camping somewhere

[Mystere]

Bush Hopper, on 10 August 2018 - 07:23 AM, said:

The problem with mid-/long-range lock weapons is that they counter brawlers and light mechs which have mostly short range builds. When someone plays dumb and is out of position he can get support even from about 1000m away with a lot of obstacles between.

Being a light, even a Wolfhound, you do not want to be hit by a LRM 80 barrage from a hurp durp assault lrm boat camping somewhere

A light who got hit by LRMs did something wrong.

[SFC174]

Just mandate that each mech in the game carry at least 1 AMS and 1/2 ton of ammo. More at player discretion. LRMs and ATMs no longer a problem for the first 5-6 minutes of a match...….

/sarc in case you missed it.

So many hard counters to LRMs for so little investment......

[Weeny Machine]

Mystere, on 10 August 2018 - 07:55 AM, said:

A light who got hit by LRMs did something wrong.

Mystere...read again. I said you have to break off your attack on a target or you get shot by LRMs despite the boat is several hundred meters away and out of LoS - which also counters a light. And usually you will get stray hits either from your intended "victim" or if the LRM boat is close even a couple of LRMs

[PobbestGob]

Vellron2005, on 08 August 2018 - 04:22 AM, said:

1) As far as the LRM "problem" goes, I think that making LRM less indirect and more direct (and only indirect with NARC/Tag), would effectively turn LRMs into ATMs, and would completely defeat their purpose, while simultaneously killing all the fun of using them.

It's unfair to hinge a player's success, builds and entire playstyle on other people that would need to bring specific builds to help. I know it's a team game and all, but that's really just pushing it.

Also, even if you make them fire and forget, ATMs would be clearly superior because of the increased damage. Also, note that there are many many mechs in this game that are, if going for LRM use, completely dependent on LRMs alone, cannot mount any other significant weapons. And then, there is still ECM, AMS and Stealth Armor. It would make LRMs simply terrible. So to play LRMs as indirect, I would have to bring a supporting spotter, which would make my gameplay entirely dependent on someone else, or bring my own and stay on the front line to use tag - which is basically how you play ATM. So why would I ever use LRMs over ATMs? Or MRM for that matter?

Sorry, but I have to disagree with this. Making LRMs direct fire would kill the system's purpose entirely.

LRMs have more missiles per salvo than ATMs, making them less susceptible to AMS. They also would keep their firing arc to travel over your team, and they produce much less heat. The direct-fire changes are meant to discourage sitting stationary in the back of the team tossing potatoes everywhere, not sharing armor and being the last guy left with a fresh mech. They're more accurately described as line-of-sight changes cuz the firing arc is the same.