12 replies to this topic

[Livaria]

There used to be mech knockdowns.
That much is true.
It caused some hitbox and registration issues.
This is also true.

But time and time again I find some people wanting to bring it back. And while I have serious doubts about knockdown, I'm going to instead, offer to those types of players; a different solution. Something that I'm imagining to be a much more practical solution.

Staggering; this means that mech will stumble on it's own two legs, and wilI take a short period of time to rebalance itself. I know it's not quite as dramatic as falling down. But it accomplishes the same goals. It adds a new feature to combat.

This also helps to fulfill the insatiable and coveted need for... *Drum roll*
EeeeeMeeeRrrrrSIoooN! (The word is immersion. Yes, I am making fun you; you immersion worshipers.)

Okay, jokes aside; time to explain the concept further. Essentially, your mech will have a Stability health bar that recharges over time. Getting hit by certain weapons such as missiles, PPC's, autocannons, and gauss rifles will drain the amount it has.

Once it reaches zero, your mech will stumble a bit; unable to fire and/or move for a short time. The time can be about 2 seconds, give or take. After it's expiration, the mech will be immune to stagger, for decent amount of time.

That's pretty much the whole concept. If you want to discus the balancing implications of such a feature, you can feel free to do that. But remember... The purpose of this post is just to introduce the idea. We're assuming that by default; all the balancing needs are met for this feature to become justifiable.

Edited by Livaria, 15 August 2018 - 01:15 AM.

[admiralbenbow123]

In my opinion, this is probably going to lead to a decreace in TTK and increase the effectiveness of gauss vomit and LRM boat mechs. And it might be really hard to implement since every mech will require a unique staggering animation.

Also, I've got a question: If this does get implemented will artillery and air strikes cause mechs to stagger?

[Livaria]

Yeah, it could possibly lead to a decrease in TTK, and an increase the effectiveness of certain builds. An increase to LRM's is probably something that is valued, whereas others, like the RAC, maybe not so much.

But it's worthwhile to remember that there's quite a few of possibilities if you think about it. Not just offensively, but defensively. Staggering could give a player enough time to run to a safe distance or get back in cover. It becomes a question of how often staggering will affect players in battles. And which weapon combinations become too good when stagger is applied.

Just remember that we're hypothetically using a stability health bar. If a 'mech is hit by one gauss rifle; A mech may not stagger. Two gauss rifles however; and mech would definitely stagger.

On the other hand, Staggering can't be overly pervasive. Otherwise it takes too much control from the player. There's a lot of consequences to be had from a feature like this.

As for airstrikes; yeah, I suppose it would factor. Though i'd imagine it'd just drain the stability bar to low instead of outright stagger.

And the animations; I imagine that there would either be no animations for the while. Just the core mechanics, then a gradual introduction to staggering animations as patches are introduced.

Edited by Livaria, 13 August 2018 - 06:18 PM.

[General Solo]

Isnt cockpit shake kinda like stagger

[admiralbenbow123]

OZHomerOZ, on 14 August 2018 - 12:20 AM, said:

Isnt cockpit shake kinda like stagger

Cockpit shake is probably a poor man's version of stagger.

[General Solo]

pretty effective for the run of the mill opponent
Skills points can reduce it

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 14 August 2018 - 05:35 AM.

[Livaria]

I do not believe cockpit shake does the same job as mech staggering. Cockpit shake does not stop a mech in it's tracks, and It does not stop a mech's ability to fire. Whether or not cockpit shake is effective; is a debatable subject.

I will give you this Homer; cockpit shake can be effective in specific circumstances.
cockpit shake can work well, but only if mechs are shooting from a distance, and only if it's constant barrage of fire.

If those needs aren't met, it doesn't take much time for a player to re-align their shots, and If the target is too close, screenshake is almost irrelevant. Your crosshairs will still remain on the target, no matter how much it shakes.

Mech staggering however, is likely to be more versatile, as it can be applied more combat situations. There's a difference to be made here.

Edited by Livaria, 14 August 2018 - 05:27 PM.

[KursedVixen]

Ever see the battletech cartoon?

[Livaria]

Yeah.

...The point being?

I suppose you do see a lot of mechs being knocked around. So there is that.

Edited by Livaria, 14 August 2018 - 10:02 PM.

[Khobai]

id rather just have knockdowns

[Livaria]

Care to explain why? Or did I already answer that for you?

Edited by Livaria, 14 August 2018 - 10:18 PM.

[UlricKessler]

'Immersion' is fairly key to making a good simulator game. Like Mechwarrior. Oh wait I totally forgot, MWO decided it's now genre-fluid non-binary and wants to attract a wider audience.


I like your idea, and a good way to help counter stagger effects would be to add *gasp* a pilot skill tree to reduce the time when recovering from being staggered, make it harder to stagger the mech to begin with, and possibly even to increase the balance damage done from say charging into an enemy mech at full speed. Just some of several things that I think PGI could've implemented early on to make 'knockdowns'/mech balance more feasible to name just one of the many mechanics sorely left out of this game - movement penalties while overheating being another.

[Livaria]

The reason why I make fun of the whole focus on immersion is that some of us talk too much about Immersion while forgetting all the other important things that is less spectacular. Immersion simply can't be everything. It's like wanting to bake an entire cake. But only bringing the frosting.

But that's all besides the point when talking about staggering as a feature.

Edited by Livaria, 15 August 2018 - 09:02 AM.