29 replies to this topic

[Tiewolf]

Haven't tried it but the new changes at the PTS look very very promising! If they fix the problem of more boated heat sinks on clan side PGI might have saved MWO if it is not already too late. With these changes you could even get rid of ghost heat. I still can't believe it.

Edited by Tiewolf, 18 August 2018 - 01:23 PM.

[JRcam4643]

They already nerfed clan heat sinks not that long ago and I believed they nerfed coolshot as well. They need to think about bringing down IS armor before any more clan stuff is nerfed.

[Racerxintegra2k]

My own view is this. This game has gotten less fun since sometime in 2016. The variety is way down. Back then i wanted to collect different mechs and variants because they felt differnt, now everything feels more or less the same.Engine Desync, skill tree etc i'm in the minority here i'm sure but i think whats going on in the PTS is another step toward making everything feel the same.

[Jackal Noble]

Yes, the PTS makes mechs more fun to play on the whole. The 40 point heat cap is matched by faster dissipation, I like it and it works

[Y E O N N E]

JRcam4643, on 18 August 2018 - 11:03 AM, said:

They already nerfed clan heat sinks not that long ago and I believed they nerfed coolshot as well. They need to think about bringing down IS armor before any more clan stuff is nerfed.

No they didn't, they buffed them.

Both IS and Clan DHS give 1.5 heat cap and 0.15 dissipation per unit.

Jackal Noble, on 18 August 2018 - 11:51 AM, said:

Yes, the PTS makes mechs more fun to play on the whole. The 40 point heat cap is matched by faster dissipation, I like it and it works

Clans need more cap and IS need more dissipation. Then I'll like it.

[Davegt27]

Jackal Noble, on 18 August 2018 - 11:51 AM, said:

Yes, the PTS makes mechs more fun to play on the whole. The 40 point heat cap is matched by faster dissipation, I like it and it works

JN are you saying you tried it and the changes worked? and your happy with the results??

[Jackal Noble]

Davegt27, on 18 August 2018 - 12:11 PM, said:

JN are you saying you tried it and the changes worked? and your happy with the results??

Yes, I am happy with the changes
and yes I dropped on the PTS quite a bit last night.

Edited by Jackal Noble, 18 August 2018 - 12:51 PM.

[Jackal Noble]

Yeonne Greene, on 18 August 2018 - 11:56 AM, said:

Clans need more cap and IS need more dissipation. Then I'll like it.

Yep.. The heat cap in place stops the HLL+ERmed combo which was the whole point. Raising the cap only increases the potential for abuse. Not opposed but at the same time, wary and want to see this one succeed

[Tiewolf]

Yeonne Greene, on 18 August 2018 - 11:56 AM, said:

Clans need more cap and IS need more dissipation. Then I'll like it.

I share your assessment, that IS needs more dissipation. Alternatively heat sinks could get less effective the more you boat them.

But why does Clan need more cap?

Edited by Tiewolf, 18 August 2018 - 01:22 PM.

[MechaBattler]

JRcam4643, on 18 August 2018 - 11:03 AM, said:

They already nerfed clan heat sinks not that long ago and I believed they nerfed coolshot as well. They need to think about bringing down IS armor before any more clan stuff is nerfed.

I agree with this on the principle that quirks should only be for mechs that are under performing. Not as a crutch for balancing an entire faction. Especially as PGI has stripped some mechs, that were once good, but have long since been relegated to obsolesce. Especially those nerfed by 'geometry updates'. : I

[Alex Morgaine]

DS HLLx2+ERMLx4 just goes barely over 100%, but with a coolshot you could counter it. rest of the time you'd not want to fire the HLL both. So it'd be a high risk build now

[FupDup]

The Virago with its 10% heat quirk can fire the full 2 HLL + 4 ERML salvo on a normal temperature map without shutting down. Yeah you gotta deal with two hardpoints in the arm instead of everything in the torso, but IMO it's worth it.

[Jackal Noble]

FupDup, on 18 August 2018 - 02:06 PM, said:

The Virago with its 10% heat quirk can fire the full 2 HLL + 4 ERML salvo on a normal temperature map without shutting down. Yeah you gotta deal with two hardpoints in the arm instead of everything in the torso, but IMO it's worth it.

What does it get up to? will check out.
Also it forgoes the ECM which was the crux of the whole Alpha Problembringer

[FupDup]

Jackal Noble, on 18 August 2018 - 02:14 PM, said:

What does it get up to? will check out.
Also it forgoes the ECM which was the crux of the whole Alpha Problembringer

Standing still in River City (on land, not water) I think it was 89% or so. Don't remember specifically.

ECM is a part of the Lelbringer's toolbox, but I'd call it a secondary characteristic really. The HBR is either decent or great in nearly every attribute, really.

Edited by FupDup, 18 August 2018 - 02:18 PM.

[Monkey Lover]

Its kind of hard to test lasers when its all bawling and full of pir1

Edited by Monkey Lover, 18 August 2018 - 02:21 PM.

[Tetatae Squawkins]

Lowering the heat cap is a good move. Hope it sticks.

[Reno Blade]

so after playing nearly 4h on the PTS for multiple mechs (from PHawk and Nova, Marauder and Rifleman to MadCat2 and Zeus...).

So far I like the feel of it.
It is a bit difficult at some time if you are trigger happy, especially if you want to focus down someone with RACs, but that heat rises too fast.

I don't think we need any big change for making it "perfect".
IF we really want some kind of capacity per HS, i would make it a very small increase.
e.g.
isDHS = .20 dissipation, 0.3 capacity so standard 10 internal isDHS would give you 2.0 dis & 43 cap (40 base cap)
cDHS = .18 dissipation, 0.2 capacity so standard 10 internal cDHS would give you 1.8 dis & 42 cap
SHS = .14 dissipation, 0.5 capacity so standard 10 internal SHS would give you 1.4 dis & 45 cap

adding 10t worth of extra heat sinks would then be:
20 isDHS would give you 4.0 dis / 46 cap (40 base cap)
20 cDHS would give you 3.6 dis / 44 cap
20 SHS would give you 2.8 dis / 50 cap

At least this distribution would give a reason to think of size vs rates (larger isDHS vs smaller cDHS vs smallest SHS)

But we still need to see if this is "low enough" of a cap increase as to still make it hard for such builds as the SHS super nova to not benefit from high cap AND high dissipation rates.

EDIT: reduced dissipation values to slow down the game

Edited by Reno Blade, 19 August 2018 - 08:54 AM.

[FireStoat]

Jackal Noble, on 18 August 2018 - 11:51 AM, said:

Yes, the PTS makes mechs more fun to play on the whole. The 40 point heat cap is matched by faster dissipation, I like it and it works

How many builds did you try this on, inclusive of both IS and Clan chassis? I'm concerned about Uac 10 builds like the uac 10x2 on a cataphract 3D, and the Marauder IIC - A. I'm also very curious how laser centric mechs stand up in the different tonnage brackets. What do these changes that were intended for the Hellbringer pan out for the Wolfhound or Cougar?

I'm downloading the updated Test client now. I'm going to test and compare energy, missile, and cannon mechs as well as mechs of the different tonnage brackets for both sides. If I have learned ANYTHING from PGI, it's that they completely suck at solving one problem without creating 5 more for different mechs that were never a problem to start with.

Edited by FireStoat, 18 August 2018 - 03:30 PM.

[Jackal Noble]

FireStoat, on 18 August 2018 - 03:28 PM, said:

How many builds did you try this on, inclusive of both IS and Clan chassis? I'm concerned about Uac 10 builds like the uac 10x2 on a cataphract 3D, and the Marauder IIC - A. I'm also very curious how laser centric mechs stand up in the different tonnage brackets. What do these changes that were intended for the Hellbringer pan out for the Wolfhound or Cougar?

I'm downloading the updated Test client now. I'm going to test and compare energy, missile, and cannon mechs as well as mechs of the different tonnage brackets for both sides. If I have learned ANYTHING from PGI, it's that they completely suck at solving one problem without creating 5 more for different mechs that were never a problem to start with.

I haven’t tried the uac10s on either side. From some of the feedback it seems they may be the most shafted out of the weapons, but as a whole everything else is fitting into place. If this goes through the 10s could stand to have a slight heat adjustment as they are hot anyway. However, if they suffers temporarily in the meantime for the greater good, I’m for it. I will test them later tonight when I get back on.

[Jackal Noble]

Reno Blade, on 18 August 2018 - 02:35 PM, said:

so after playing nearly 4h on the PTS for multiple mechs (from PHawk and Nova, Marauder and Rifleman to MadCat2 and Zeus...).

So far I like the feel of it.
It is a bit difficult at some time if you are trigger happy, especially if you want to focus down someone with RACs, but that heat rises too fast.

I don't think we need any big change for making it "perfect".
IF we really want some kind of capacity per HS, i would make it a very small increase.
e.g.
isDHS = .25 dissipation, 0.3 capacity so standard 10 internal isDHS would give you 2.5 dis & 43 cap (40 base cap)
cDHS = .20 dissipation, 0.2 capacity so standard 10 internal cDHS would give you 2.0 dis & 42 cap
SHS = .15 dissipation, 0.5 capacity so standard 10 internal SHS would give you 1.5 dis & 45 cap

adding 10t worth of extra heat sinks would then be:
20 isDHS would give you 5.0 dis / 46 cap (40 base cap)
20 cDHS would give you 4.0 dis / 44 cap
20 SHS would give you 3.0 dis / 50 cap

At least this distribution would give a reason to think of size vs rates (larger isDHS vs smaller cDHS vs smallest SHS)

But we still need to see if this is "low enough" of a cap increase as to still make it hard for such builds as the SHS super nova to not benefit from high cap AND high dissipation rates

Issues that hypothetical raises - by having a a higher base dissipation rate and cap, lighter clan mechs that have low to no heat sinks would be inherently disadvantaged. It would have to be one while the other faction receives the other. Some are advocating for higher Clan heat cap vs higher IS dissipation. The issue with that imo is then we start veering back to the root issue in the first place. I actually think a novel take would be to give Clan a higher dissipation, but lower comparable heat cap while allow IS to have a higher cap but slower dissipation. In this way it would be likened to differences in the tech bases.

But I’m more on the school that it’s pretty damn close. IS heat cap is pretty good and matched by lower heat weapons, while Clan mechs have to fire fewer, hotter weapons because it’s relatively easy to hit that 40+ mark with 6 er mediums alone.