76 replies to this topic

[Eisenhorne]

MechaBattler, on 22 August 2018 - 10:21 AM, said:

We have the freedom to play sub par builds. Not always to the benefit of the game. lol...

Sometimes I wish we didn't... no, your LRM kingcrab or atlas isn't helping. If you wanna do a LRM assault run a MAL-1R or AWS-8R... or wait for the FNR-5E to come out for cbills.

[tutzdes]

MechaBattler, on 22 August 2018 - 10:21 AM, said:

You realize that unlike World of Tanks. You have a choice in how you build. You're complaining about not being able to do something with Summoner. But you can, it just won't be as good in the role as certain other mechs. But you can do it and no one can really stop you. Where as world of tanks you just upgrade and then decide if you wanna use the high pen gun or the derp gun or maybe a higher rate of fire gun with lower damage.

We have the freedom to play sub par builds. Not always to the benefit of the game. lol...

This!

WoT is fun, but build variety doesn't exist and all good vehicles are preceded by terrible ones you're forced to grind through.

Playstyle variety was destroyed by making arty what it is now (bye arty), creating the guns with overly huge armor penetration (bye fatty whales) and making some mediums just as fast as lights (bye lights).

In MWO we have the build variety, different playstyles, role warfare of sorts and 3D movement.

The biggest disadvantage of MWO compared to WoT is complexity for newbies, lack of proper PR - hence low population.

[PurpleNinja]

What is WOT?

[timff8]

tutzdes, on 22 August 2018 - 11:29 AM, said:

Playstyle variety was destroyed by making arty what it is now (bye arty), creating the guns with overly huge armor penetration (bye fatty whales) and making some mediums just as fast as lights (bye lights).

Oh I am totally aware of the problems that WoT has. As I said, that's why I play tier 6 and 7, these problems are way, way less nasty there. Penetration power creep in tiers 8,9, and 10 is absolutely horrible, I agree. I actually prefer arty the way it is now; most shots I get to do something. Under the previous system it was way too "all or nothing", with most of my shots, even landing near the target, doing nothing. Increased blast radius and stun lets me have more effects, even if I don't get to OHKO people as much.

[timff8]

MechaBattler, on 22 August 2018 - 10:21 AM, said:

We have the freedom to play sub par builds. Not always to the benefit of the game. lol...

Well I think what wrangles me about it more than anything is the podspace inconsistency. Having a few less tons will make or break a build. Summoner suffers so much from having less podspace due to lack of Endo and having hardlocked JJs. Having 4 tons missing kills a build. And I totally get the idea that you get maneuverability in trade, and that mechs are balanced like this. Theoretically this happens in WoT too. But in WoT, having more maneuverability doesn't break a gun. You can have a 75mm gun on a lighter, more maneuverable tank. But what you'll lose is probably accuracy, or penetration, or reload, etc. Because MWO everything is standardized, you lose quantized items. There's way less shades of effectiveness that make the trades in capability gradual.

Edited by timff8, 22 August 2018 - 01:06 PM.

[timff8]

Horseman, on 21 August 2018 - 10:43 PM, said:

"Yay for railroaded progression"? Every battle in MWO pushes you towards a cooler mech as well... the distinction is that you get to decide which mech you consider cooler than the one you currently have.

So, here's kind of the problem. Theoretically, that sounds fun. My problem: "Wow, this mech is just the coolest!" So I get that mech, I play it, I like it. I get better equipment. I play it. Now what. There's not enough content for me for that mech. Once I have all the omnipods or engines or what-have-you, that's all there is. And it really doesn't take all that long. I know the idea is that in WoT, you have to grind through like 9 tanks to get to the tank you actually want to play, but that's not accurate. Most tank lines have a consistent feel to them. If you're playing the Japanese heavy tanks, they all kind of feel like the Type 5, just a sillier version with variations in weaponry and optimal angling for their armor. If you're playing the Jag. E 100 line, they all kind of feel like that playstyle, just sillier. So It's less that I'm trying to grind up to a Badger, and more that I'm playing a baby Badger, that grows up into a kid Badger, which grows up into teenage Badger, and so on. It feels like there's a progression, but also it never feels like I'm just playing a ******** filler tank. Granted, those TOTALLY exist. That's ABSOLUTELY a thing where tank lines have filler tanks that suck. But there are also lines that are great, that are a lot of fun, that give you a sense of progression that I really enjoy. I don't get that in MWO.

[MechaBattler]

You'll have to blame the inconsistency on the lore. The Clans designed the summoner with no endo for some reason. And so that's the way it is. And the fixed equipment is a consequence of being an Omnimech. If you read through mech profiles in Sarna. They treat the addition of endo structure or ferro armor as this huge leap. Kinda creating this faux sense of design progression.
Of course if things did progress realistically. You'd have a more uniform design across the board. Like how today's modern tanks share a lot of the same design characteristics, even general shape. In Battletech designs are seemingly wacky. Largely because the table top doesn't take into account hitboxes.

[FupDup]

MechaBattler, on 22 August 2018 - 02:00 PM, said:

You'll have to blame the inconsistency on the lore. The Clans designed the summoner with no endo for some reason. And so that's the way it is. And the fixed equipment is a consequence of being an Omnimech. If you read through mech profiles in Sarna. They treat the addition of endo structure or ferro armor as this huge leap. Kinda creating this faux sense of design progression.
Of course if things did progress realistically. You'd have a more uniform design across the board. Like how today's modern tanks share a lot of the same design characteristics, even general shape. In Battletech designs are seemingly wacky. Largely because the table top doesn't take into account hitboxes.

The no Endo thing can be at least kinda justified as saving logistical costs, but the hardwired equipment makes no sense for Omnis because their entire advantage over Battlemechs is their ability to min-max for the mission ahead. For the Summoner, not all missions need JJs and therefore it's contradictory to mount them in every single mission on a mech archetype that is supposed to be easily modifiable.

[Mr Snrub]

timff8, on 21 August 2018 - 12:23 AM, said:

PART 2: MY MECH CLINGS DESPERATELY TO LIFE

WoT is a fun game. The sweet spot in my opinion is around tiers 6 and 7, that's where tanks are strong enough to take a punch, but not so tough that it takes an avalanche of vaguely racist (it's a WWII game, it's gonna be racist) punches to bring them down. They also have enough firepower at those tiers to throw solid punches, but not so solid that they obliterate eachother in seconds like at low tiers. MWO is in the avalanche camp. Even medium mechs feel like they take so much firepower to bring down that it's obnoxious. Why is this a bad thing? Because I am only one mech. I am only one person. When the opponent adds torso twisting to their durability, it can take an eternity to claw away at what should be an easy kill buy tabletop standards.

I don't get it.

[timff8]

MechaBattler, on 22 August 2018 - 02:00 PM, said:

You'll have to blame the inconsistency on the lore. The Clans designed the summoner with no endo for some reason. And so that's the way it is. And the fixed equipment is a consequence of being an Omnimech. If you read through mech profiles in Sarna. They treat the addition of endo structure or ferro armor as this huge leap. Kinda creating this faux sense of design progression.
Of course if things did progress realistically. You'd have a more uniform design across the board. Like how today's modern tanks share a lot of the same design characteristics, even general shape. In Battletech designs are seemingly wacky. Largely because the table top doesn't take into account hitboxes.

Well like I totally get that in the context of a tabletop game. A unit that's objectively worse is cheaper on the tabletop, so you can get more things. Also on the tabletop you can organize a team all by yourself, so like a team that's all faster, JJ-equipped mechs makes sense, so the summoner is a solid leader in that context. In MWO, there's no points, and you only have yourself, so it is what it is. It's not ideal.

Mr Snrub, on 22 August 2018 - 02:22 PM, said:

I don't get it.

The game itself isnt' really that racist, it's more the culture. It's a shooter that's about military history, so it's gonna attract that kind of crowd. More than once I've been TKed for calling people out for racial epithets.

Edited by timff8, 22 August 2018 - 02:57 PM.

[Mr Snrub]

What is racist about 'an avalanche of punches' (I guess focus fire?) though?

[timff8]

Mr Snrub, on 22 August 2018 - 03:00 PM, said:

What is racist about 'an avalanche of punches' (I guess focus fire?) though?

I don't know what you want man, I'm just expressing that WoT has a vaguely racist culture. Tanks also don't punch eachother, I'm just crafting a goofy visual metaphor to make my post more interesting to read.

[Anjian]

Pain G0D, on 22 August 2018 - 04:45 AM, said:

Swop my giant stompy robots for tanks ? Thats an awww heck NOOOOO .

I played wot,s cousin war robots for a little more than a year . Everything wrong and horrible in WR is supposedly also in world of tanks . That's enough for me to not even consider downloading it.

It's a free country go play tanks if you like that .

War Robots and World of Tanks are two very different games. WR doesn't have the armor deflection mechanics of WoT, and neither does MWO, and WoT doesn't have anything like Shocktrains.

Shocktrains are mob obliterators. Its made with good intentions---destroy mobs and campers, but the road it made leads to hell.

[Horseman]

timff8, on 22 August 2018 - 01:22 PM, said:

So, here's kind of the problem. Theoretically, that sounds fun. My problem: "Wow, this mech is just the coolest!" So I get that mech, I play it, I like it. I get better equipment. I play it. Now what. There's not enough content for me for that mech. Once I have all the omnipods or engines or what-have-you, that's all there is. And it really doesn't take all that long.

Skill tree and optimization of the build for your playstyle. And then finding the next mech to play with instead of getting locked into playing the same bloody thing for next several years of the game. Perhaps something you think will run your playstyle better, compensate for your current mech's downsides or offer a different playstyle you wanted to give a shot. The choice there is entirely yours.

Quote

I know the idea is that in WoT, you have to grind through like 9 tanks to get to the tank you actually want to play, but that's not accurate.

Now tell me, how will the grind look like if you discover that the tank you wanted to play is not it after all and the one that would suit you better is locked on a completely different tech tree?

Quote

Most tank lines have a consistent feel to them. If you're playing the Japanese heavy tanks, they all kind of feel like the Type 5, just a sillier version with variations in weaponry and optimal angling for their armor. If you're playing the Jag. E 100 line, they all kind of feel like that playstyle, just sillier.

So you're just playing reskinned variations of the same chassis. That's actually a downside.

Quote

So It's less that I'm trying to grind up to a Badger, and more that I'm playing a baby Badger, that grows up into a kid Badger, which grows up into teenage Badger, and so on. It feels like there's a progression, but also it never feels like I'm just playing a ******** filler tank.
Granted, those TOTALLY exist. That's ABSOLUTELY a thing where tank lines have filler tanks that suck. But there are also lines that are great, that are a lot of fun, that give you a sense of progression that I really enjoy. I don't get that in MWO.

That isn't progression, it's a bloody skinner box.

[Anjian]

SmokedJag, on 21 August 2018 - 06:14 AM, said:

BT/MW has never had the exploit and RNG riddled mechanics that drive World of Tanks play. Shot drift turning a kill shot into an "autobounce," being able to engage with true invisibility, critical components not actually where art shows them etc.

Mechwarrior may not be but Battletech is RNG.

[crazytimes]

Comparing the two... WoT is fun, but wow is the community terribad. After some 21000 games... I just could not do it anymore Unless you are in a decent English speaking clan, you are playing a 30 tank battle royale, just half of them may get you an autoban if you shoot back at them. If you are in a clan, feel free to enjoy watching the other team blatanly cheat with the blessing of the mod in their clan.

Community here is full of much nicer people. I like you guys way more. If I could actually get in a game I would way prefer to play here.

[Anjian]

crazytimes, on 22 August 2018 - 11:50 PM, said:

Comparing the two... WoT is fun, but wow is the community terribad. After some 21000 games... I just could not do it anymore Unless you are in a decent English speaking clan, you are playing a 30 tank battle royale, just half of them may get you an autoban if you shoot back at them. If you are in a clan, feel free to enjoy watching the other team blatanly cheat with the blessing of the mod in their clan.

Community here is full of much nicer people. I like you guys way more. If I could actually get in a game I would way prefer to play here.

One should never play a game that allows for a mod to bring up player W/L rate stats and attach them as a color bar over a player's head.

[crazytimes]

Anjian, on 22 August 2018 - 11:59 PM, said:

One should never play a game that allows for a mod to bring up player W/L rate stats and attach them as a color bar over a player's head.

Compared to the other mods available and ignored by WG, XVM was really not that bad. My favourite ones to watch were laser pointer, red ball for arty, autoaim with target lead at ammo racks and arty mode for non-arty. Streamers would openely use them but it would be ignored. Winning.

[iLLcapitan]

this thread, just wow. What the eff are you on about summoners? I love my summoners. Summoners are great, they summon blue lightning bolts onto the enemy like no other. They are the ferraris among cadillacs.

WoT is a steaming pile of grind with a toxic to the extreme piss poor community full of 12 year old militarias getting a hard on their vile fantasy of historic barrel comparison.

[Kubernetes]

Up until the cERPPC nerf the peep Summoner was one of the top heavies in the game. It's hard to wrap your mind around because it's a finesse build, not a power build. It's strength comes from incredible agility coupled with very good offensive and defensive quirks (for a Clan omni). If you can get over the fact that it has a paltry alpha and play it right, it can beat nearly any heavy in the game.