10 replies to this topic

[AedanCousland]

Quick question, please. I have a Mech with a base structure bonus of 21% I have then sunk XP into structure bonuses and get an additional bonuses. First off, I assume the XP based bonuses are points, not percentages, and how do I know what my base structure values are, or what the threshold for losing that section is?

For example, how do I know what the structure in my arms are, and at what point I'll lose those arms? Structure doesn't seem as clear cut as Armour.

[Horseman]

AedanCousland, on 21 August 2018 - 03:55 PM, said:

Quick question, please. I have a Mech with a base structure bonus of 21%

No mech has a percentage-based structure quirk. Chassis structure quirks come in points, and for specified locations only.

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I have then sunk XP into structure bonuses and get an additional bonuses. First off, I assume the XP based bonuses are points, not percentages,

The opposite. Skill tree bonuses are percentage-based. The more base structure points you have (including from structure quirks), the more your skill tree structure nodes will add.

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and how do I know what my base structure values are, or what the threshold for losing that section is?

Look in the mechlab, you'll see it shown below armor values.

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Structure doesn't seem as clear cut as Armour.

It's not, because hitting structure has a chance to deal additional damage.

[AedanCousland]

That still doesn't help me. Let's say I have a 10% bonus to arm structure, how does that translate to health, or more importantly, how does that translate to the thing not falling off? Is structure and damage at a 1:1 ratio?

[TheCaptainJZ]

AedanCousland, on 22 August 2018 - 02:40 AM, said:

That still doesn't help me. Let's say I have a 10% bonus to arm structure, how does that translate to health, or more importantly, how does that translate to the thing not falling off? Is structure and damage at a 1:1 ratio?

Yes, sort of. Say the mechlab shows structure for your arm is 20 points and you get 10% bonus. Then it is 22 points (I believe it shows the value in mechlab of bonuses included as it does for armor. It should be the green number next to the white armor value). Now, it can take 22 points of damage once armor is gone, however, you have to account for critical hits which have a chance to deal extra damage so in reality it's less.

Edited by TheCaptainJZ, 22 August 2018 - 03:01 AM.

[Tarl Cabot]

Just to preface, this is what I have gathered. I am not an expert and will make corrections where needed.

Base damage to health is 1:1, be it hitting armor or internal structure. The difference, as noted, is once the armor is gone and damage is hitting internal structural, that damage has the ability to generate additional damage via crits, the base damage going to the structure, damage to the component, as well as additional, incremental damage to internal structural itself.

In reality as long as there are structural points in the section being hit that damage is not be passed onto the next section, ie RL to RT to CT or LA to LT to CT. Preferably though you would want a mech with armor quirks/tree than structural quirks but be that is PGI decision. When quirks were introduced there were no armor quirks, simply structural quirks.

if the mech has structural, add more HPs via tree also means it can take more damage before being completely destroyed. Yes, if a weapon does generate a crit that crit does damage to the component it hits while generating additional damage to the structural. Of course if there are no components in that section it still means it will be able to absorb more damage before being destroyed.

And there is a relation between base armor and structural (and fyi Smurphy shows the base pts, you have to look elsewhere to get the quirks). Max armor as twice the number of points than internal structure. If a mech has a default 30 structural points in one section the max the armor that can be added is 60pts (for torso section that is 60pts total front/back). If that section as an additional 10pts of structural quirk then it will say 40pts but the max armor does not change, it is still set at 60pts. Turn it around and a section is quirked 10 armor pts it will have +10 but the structural will still say 30pts. So for the armor quirk, if you were to zero out the armor pts it would show 10 armor pts left (quirked and in blue-green color).

The Armor Hardening and Skeletal Density quirks in skill tree quirks are set for percentages, which varies from one weight class to the other, with the lights having the highest percentages and the assaults the lowest percentage. And while getting those points in the survival tree you will also pick up Reinforced Casing which helps reduce crits from being generated in the first place. Will leave it at that.

If you are having questions about two particular mechs, list the variant.


Also, engines can absorb crit hits up to 15pts but it has no effect on them. When we had R&R it hiked up the repair bill.

This is an example of a thread from 2013, based on the figures then but it gives you a general idea. At the time 15% of critical damage dealt to an exposed 'Mech component will now be directly applied to the internal structure of that component. MG have different crit percentages then other weapons.

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1. Crit damage is in addition to regular damage
2. Crit damage is 1, 2, or 3x regular damage.

Since the new additional IS damage is based on crit damage, not regular damage, the AC/20 has four cases:

1. No crit (58% chance): 20 damage to IS
2. Single crit (25% chance): 20 + 3 damage to IS, 20 damage to a component.
3. Double crit (14% chance): 20 + 6 damage to IS, 20 damage x2 to component(s) It can hit the same component..
4. Triple crit (3% chance): 20 + 9 damage to IS, 20 damage x3 to component(s).

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 23 August 2018 - 09:51 AM.

[Dragonporn]

I don't think OP should be really that concerned about mech structure. It's pretty much irrelevant. Once your armor is gone, structure will blow up almost instantly in most cases, especially from MG boats. Bigger mechs with better structure have a chance to live through several hits, but it's hilarious how sometimes you can enter brutal RNG state. Sometimes with cherry red CT, I keep getting pretty big hits and mech refuse to go down, next match, once armor is off and I die instantly, lol.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

Mechlab will show how much you have armor and stucture on each "component", the displayed numbers take account quirks and skill tree.

Edited by Teer Kerensky, 24 August 2018 - 01:45 AM.

[Eisenhorne]

Dragonporn, on 23 August 2018 - 11:37 AM, said:

I don't think OP should be really that concerned about mech structure. It's pretty much irrelevant. Once your armor is gone, structure will blow up almost instantly in most cases, especially from MG boats. Bigger mechs with better structure have a chance to live through several hits, but it's hilarious how sometimes you can enter brutal RNG state. Sometimes with cherry red CT, I keep getting pretty big hits and mech refuse to go down, next match, once armor is off and I die instantly, lol.

The best use of structure is absorbing overheat damage. My Laservomit Top Dog and Warhammer both have decent structure quirks, so I can overheat them to hell and they keep on ticking. If you need to burn out 4 alphas in quick succession, as long as you cool shot and absorb some structure damage you can do it. It's great.

[Daggett]

For starters lets assume there are no crits to make things easier to understand. Now structure behaves the same as armor. Each damage reduces your armor/structure by the same amount. If your armor is gone that damage will reduce your structure in the same way.
And if your structure reaches 0 then the component will be destroyed / blown off.

Now to determine how much structure you mech will have including all quirks and skill-nodes let's look at the Warhammer:
By default a 70t mech has a CT base structure of 44. The Warhammer's structure quirk adds another 11 (armor/structure quirks are always flat, not percentages) to this so you end up with 55 points.

The structure nodes in the skill tree now add a percental modifier if you invest into them. So let's say if you unlocked a 20% structure bonus then you will end up with a total CT structure of 66 (55 + 20% = 66) points. So when your armor is gone it takes 66 damage to destroy your CT.

Edited by Daggett, 24 August 2018 - 06:43 AM.

[Koniving]

AedanCousland, on 22 August 2018 - 02:40 AM, said:

That still doesn't help me. Let's say I have a 10% bonus to arm structure, how does that translate to health, or more importantly, how does that translate to the thing not falling off? Is structure and damage at a 1:1 ratio?

Consider this:
X mech has +2 structure and a skill bonus of +10%.
Base structure is 10 for simplicity.

The percentage, as has been tested and proven by comparing the same skill tree between mechs that have no armor quirk (but skill tree gives a percentage) and armor quirk bonuses (with identical skill tree), and the outcome in armor shows us that the percentage is tacked onto the end result of base + quirks, at least as far as armor/structure goes.

So, this said..
If your arm has 12 structure (10 base and 2 quirk) + 10% structure bonus, you have 13.2 structure on said arm.

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The reality of structure though, is that every "Critical hit" gets 15% of that critical damage tacked on as additional structural damage.

So if you were hit by an IS AC/20 and it gets 2 crits, not only does it do 20 structure damage and 40 critical component damage (a separate health system for individual equipment, split in 2 different strikes of 20), but 15% of that 40 then is slapped on as additional structure damage. 15% of 40 is 6, so the actual structural damage performed is 26 damage for that one shot, as well as two pieces of equipment in that body part destroyed.

Some weapons are more dangerous against structure due to somewhat higher percentages of crit-chances, which is high enough to make a noteworthy difference. The LBX, specifically, is doing double crit damage when compared to its base damage. (Each "ball" is doing 1 damage to armor/structures. To critical components this is 2 crit-damage per crit per ball, so each ball might only do a single point of damage, it can do up to 6 crit damage [where any regular weapons that do 1 damage would do up to 3 crit damage]) Thus crit weapons and the LBX especially can be absolutely devastating if you have a lot of equipment / crit-stuffing to protect your own weapons.)

However, bare bones body parts, that is completely empty parts (arms are always vulnerable for 20 and up to 40 crit health due to actuators, legs vulnerable to 40 crit damage) are immune to the bonus structure damage, as it only works if there's critical damage dealt. If there's no equipment in the body part, there's no critical damage to be had, and thus 15% of 0 crit damage is 0 bonus damage to structure.

Has this helped any?

If you look at Smurfy's mechlab, it gives base armor and structure maxes and does not account quirks/skill tree. So there's your vanilla stash comparison.

[Tier5ForLife]

The OP so reminds me of myself.

I know I drove a lot of you here crazy.